37yr old woman has 15 kids and is angry the government isn't paying for them all - page 2.

NghtRppr

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Quote from: dancupid on December 26, 2011, 12:24:02 PM

Quote from: NghtRppr on December 26, 2011, 12:18:47 PM

Define "rich".

Define "poor".

It's defined by the market - in China 'poor' is defined as less than $1 per day. In the US I don't know. But the market decides - and I'm sure people who are 'poor' know who they are, and if there are enough of them they will react. You can make an decision to prevent this based on your personal economic position - it's just market forces. You are free to speculate on your future prosperity and safety and vote accordingly

You didn't actually define anything.

dancupid

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Quote from: NghtRppr on December 26, 2011, 12:18:47 PM

Define "rich".

Define "poor".

It's defined by the market - in China 'poor' is defined as less than $1 per day. In the US I don't know. But the market decides - and I'm sure people who are 'poor' know who they are, and if there are enough of them they will react. You can make an decision to prevent this based on your personal economic position - it's just market forces. You are free to speculate on your future prosperity and safety and vote accordingly

NghtRppr

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Define "rich".

Define "poor".

dancupid

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The odd thing about socialism is that it is pure capitalism - the rich pay off the poor to ensure the poor have a stable life so as to prevent them from banding together and creating a revolution against the rich.
Pay them enough and they carry on with their normal lives - don't pay them enough and you lose all the advantages of your wealth. Everything is capitalism - you can't escape it anywhere.

dancupid

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Quote from: altuin on December 26, 2011, 05:43:41 AM

Charity doesn't work - Humans are naturally greedy. In fact, not to sound overly social darwinist, but by letting those people who cannot support themselves die, we end up with less people to not-support, leaving the more fortunate of us to stay alive

They won't die - the rich will die, becasue the people won't stand for it and the rich will be put up against a wall and shot. That's how social Darwinism works. Darwinism says nothing about 'survival of the richest'. The people who survive will understand what is necessary to survive and it will have nothing to do with money (ask Saddam and Gaddafi who didn't survive despite their wealth)

altuin

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Charity doesn't work - Humans are naturally greedy. In fact, not to sound overly social darwinist, but by letting those people who cannot support themselves die, we end up with less people to not-support, leaving the more fortunate of us to stay alive

bb113

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I see similarities between large private organizations and governments. The most obvious is the amount of bureaucracy.

NghtRppr

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Quote from: bb113 on December 24, 2011, 05:58:05 AM

Nope. Not large scale.

There are thousands of small missions rather than one large mission. I fail to see the why that difference matters.

Vitalik Buterin

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Quote from: bb113 on December 24, 2011, 05:58:05 AM

Nope. Not large scale.

Of course not, there's no reason for them to exist in the present world when the expectation is to rely on the government for everything. Things like private charities and mutual aid societies were far more powerful in the earlier half of this century before they got centralized into the government.

bb113

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Nope. Not large scale.

NghtRppr

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Quote from: bb113 on December 23, 2011, 11:03:20 AM

People like JonHind will only accept that people can help each other without the government if they see concrete examples of it happening. So, if libertarians wish to convert them, they should work on creating private charitable systems that replace the need for government assistance. Hopefully, these systems will be less corruptible and more efficient than the government run ones.

You mean like the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and the hundreds of other private charities? As far as "replace the need for government assistance" that makes it sound like everyone will be in Utopia and have everything they want. The current system doesn't do that either.

bb113

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People like JonHind will only accept that people can help each other without the government if they see concrete examples of it happening. So, if libertarians wish to convert them, they should work on creating private charitable systems that replace the need for government assistance. Hopefully, these systems will be less corruptible and more efficient than the government run ones.

NghtRppr

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Quote from: JonHind on December 21, 2011, 01:57:01 PM

Quote from: NghtRppr on December 21, 2011, 08:50:58 AM

Quote from: JonHind on December 18, 2011, 06:44:47 PM

Yeah, there are lots of pavements. Fuck the kids. They should have been born to a better mother.

So, instead of doing something yourself, you want to force other people to help using the threat of violence (government)?

No, I want them to rot on the streets like they deserve.

Are those the only two options you see? There's no such thing as voluntary charity?

bb113

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I think the first step here needs to be more community involvement and responsibility. This is likely very difficult in large cities.

JonHind

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Quote from: NghtRppr on December 21, 2011, 08:50:58 AM

Quote from: JonHind on December 18, 2011, 06:44:47 PM

Yeah, there are lots of pavements. Fuck the kids. They should have been born to a better mother.

So, instead of doing something yourself, you want to force other people to help using the threat of violence (government)?

No, I want them to rot on the streets like they deserve.

bithobo

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Quote from: dancupid on December 21, 2011, 09:26:36 AM

work 35 hours instead of 40 and there would be no unemploymentt - or we can make the decision that it's better for us to work longer hours and earn more and then pay off the people we deny work to.

The biggest problem with such government-forced distribution is that sooner or later it starts sinking into communism. The biggest problem with communism is that "spreading the wealth equally" kills the will for competition which then kills the will to work. Consequentially, everything slows down and you have less of everything to spread equally. In the end, "equality" starts being "nobody has anything".

I support the existence of welfare better then the "no questions asked" market where a select few criminals become richer then the rest of the world. But I've seen communism and it ain't pretty to look at... Actually, you can't see it very well with all the electricity reductions every day or two Tongue

dancupid

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Excluding extremes like this, if we live in a society that generates unemployment due to the way work is distributed then unemployment will exist. If we want zero unemployment then all we need to do is redistribute the work - work 35 hours instead of 40 and there would be no unemployment - or we can make the decision that it's better for us to work longer hours and earn more and then pay off the people we deny work to.
Personally I think 'work is a four letter word' anyway - I've better things to do with my life than processing bureaucracy and selling crap.

NghtRppr

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Quote from: JonHind on December 18, 2011, 06:44:47 PM

Yeah, there are lots of pavements. Fuck the kids. They should have been born to a better mother.

So, instead of doing something yourself, you want to force other people to help using the threat of violence (government)?

bithobo

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Quote from: steelhouse on December 18, 2011, 05:57:52 PM

Land is free

Where is this "free land" you speak of? I might know some potential buyers after I claim it Cheesy

TheHeroMember

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If there's something wrong to the people in the government, the government should be to blame. It's the governments role.

Topic: 37yr old woman has 15 kids and is angry the government isn't paying for them all - page 2. (Read 6642 times)