3x inflation in my life time (Im 30) does bitcoin fix this? - page 2.

Onset

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Quote from: jossiel on June 08, 2023, 07:20:01 AM

I wouldn't say that. Yes, it devalues due to inflation but it's not worthless when you still need to buy your stuff.

It’s worthless if you keep it, I wanted to say. You can’t hold on to USD because it’ll just devalue due to inflation. You lose purchasing power. It sucks.

Quote from: jossiel on June 08, 2023, 07:20:01 AM

Well said, a real asset that can be hedge against inflation.

Can be, sometimes. If your financial situation sucks and you get to buy Bitcoin in 2021 with all your life savings as a hedge against inflation, you’re screwed. It so far resembled a very very good investment over long term. But reality shows that while its price increased many many times, when economy goes bad Bitcoin gets pretty shaken and destabilized.

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Quote from: Onset on June 08, 2023, 06:57:36 AM

Money is usually worthless. It devalues over time.

I wouldn't say that. Yes, it devalues due to inflation but it's not worthless when you still need to buy your stuff.

Quote from: Onset on June 08, 2023, 06:57:36 AM

We get a false feeling of the opposite happenig. Wage rises and you think you earn more, but reality is you earn.. less or just the same. Look at how much a McDonald’s burger used to cost back in their first business years. Look up how much it costs now. The price rose, but so did the minimum wage. I mean, salaries typically get a nation wide increase when cost of living becomes hard to cover with the minimum wage..

That's right and that's all due to inflation, salary may go up for most of the professionals but it's just equivalent to what the inflation that we are experiencing. And the sad part, many salaried men don't even get an appraisal even there's an inflation.

Quote from: Onset on June 08, 2023, 06:57:36 AM

Bitcoin has so far helped tremendously, given investors bought years ago and held without panicking. In theory, it should do the same in a matter of years if you buy today. Bitcoin has so far exceeded inflation impressively. It’s in fact supposed to do just that, be an asset that protects you from the failing fiat.

Well said, a real asset that can be hedge against inflation.

Onset

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Quote from: stompix on June 08, 2023, 06:57:04 AM

Well, since we have some feedback can you go on a longer period let's say 10 years, and then match in wages?

I can try something.

In 1960, a McDonald’s burger in the US was $0.15. That’s $1.55 according to inflation calculator. Today, a hamburger costs $1.61 (source). So the cost is about the same.

Also in 1960, minimum wage was $1. That’s $10.30 adjusted to today’s inflation rate. In 2023 some states are paying more, others are paying less than that. The lowest is about 25% less than 1960’s minimum wage, the highest is >50% over it.

It’s not as bad. Burger costs 10x more in USD but the minimum wage has adjusted about accordingly.

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Quote from: Ojima-ojo on June 08, 2023, 06:49:59 AM

Yeah aside from the fact that the $5,000 will not have the same value since inflation would have taken a large chunk from that amount, but with Bitcoin $5,000 ast in 2011 will equal $15,000,000 the value of 567.53.
So the math is clear and simple to understand, BTC is the best and long-term holding is the king of the future.

However, very few individuals held such assumptions when Bitcoin was priced below USD $10, as that was a very early stage in Bitcoin's existence. It is only after Bitcoin has reached its current pinnacle that it would be gravely mistaken to evaluate Bitcoin solely based on its price and regard it as the ultimate escape from inflation.

We should instead focus on what causes the value of Bitcoin to rise and reach all-time highs. Variables such as the technology underlying Bitcoin and the community's trust in its existence also play a significant role in driving the price of Bitcoin. Up until now, no one can guarantee Bitcoin's future, whether it will continue to surge by thousands of percentage points in the next ten years or become a mere jest. We simply do not know, unless you possess the power of time travel.

Onset

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Money is usually worthless. It devalues over time. We get a false feeling of the opposite happenig. Wage rises and you think you earn more, but reality is you earn.. less or just the same.

Look at how much a McDonald’s burger used to cost back in their first business years. Look up how much it costs now. The price rose, but so did the minimum wage. I mean, salaries typically get a nation wide increase when cost of living becomes hard to cover with the minimum wage..

Bitcoin has so far helped tremendously, given investors bought years ago and held without panicking. In theory, it should do the same in a matter of years if you buy today. Bitcoin has so far exceeded inflation impressively. It’s in fact supposed to do just that, be an asset that protects you from the failing fiat.

stompix

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on June 07, 2023, 03:37:13 PM

Quote from: stompix on June 07, 2023, 03:32:27 PM

How many pizzas could you buy with your wage then and how many can you buy with your age now?

I can answer that. About 5 years ago, I could buy a family-sized pizza for €12-15. Now, it costs me at least €20. That's more than a quarter of my pizza eaten by whoever is liable for this (probably politicians, though).

Well, since we have some feedback can you go on a longer period let's say 10 years, and then match in wages?
I was paying between 4 and 5 euros for a pizza after the crisis, right now it's 10-15, depending much on the location, but just looking at the minimum wage it was 300 euros in 2010 now it's ~700, so if you look at both the increases it's not really that bad anymore.

Of course that works mostly for us in Eastern Europe cause we were dirt poor and we finally managed to catch a bit with the rest of the EU.
That's why probably nobody here is actually that desperate about the current inflation, 10%, 20% 30% is nothing compared to the 90s.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on June 07, 2023, 02:32:40 PM

how does bitcoin fix this?

That only works if Bitcoin becomes the world's global reserve currency which we all know is not going to happen in the distant future. If the prices of everything inflates to extremely crazy levels, to the point where things that used to cost a few dollars now cost hundreds of dollars (or if the US simply hits its debt ceiling at any time), then I doubt the dollar will still be the global reserve, and other countries, or groups of countries such as BRICS, will push forward their own currencies to be the global reserve.

Ojima-ojo

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Quote from: DeathAngel on June 07, 2023, 02:52:38 PM

The bitcoin price was negligible in 2009 when the first block was mined so let’s use May 2011 as an example. The price was $8.81 at May monthly close. If you had $5,000 invested in bitcoin back then, you would have had 567.53BTC. Some simple math tells you that your $5,000 worth of bitcoin would now be worth over $15,000,000.
I think it’s safe to say that regarding inflation, long term bitcoin HODLING fixes this. Returns are naturally getting smaller as bitcoin gets more mainstream but it still beats inflation by far when HODLING long term.

Yeah aside from the fact that the $5,000 will not have the same value since inflation would have taken a large chunk from that amount, but with Bitcoin $5,000 ast in 2011 will equal $15,000,000 the value of 567.53.

So the math is clear and simple to understand, BTC is the best and long-term holding is the king of the future.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on June 07, 2023, 02:32:40 PM

how does bitcoin fix this?

Considering how "this" means the economy on the global scale where the centralized governments in each country keep printing money non-stop and without any actual cap, the answer is no. Bitcoin can not and is not designed to fix the economy or fix the government or the banking system.
In other words governments have been printing fiat non-stop before bitcoin and they will continue doing so after bitcoin (2009). They just raised the money printing cap (debt ceiling) in US to print trillions more Tongue

Bitcoin is supposed to be that extra option for those who want to gain at least some financial sovereignty in a world where it is lacking.

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Ok Bitcoin will probably have a re-evaluation in the future (it will be able to beat inflation? Roll Eyes

)
However to use past events to evaluate this future it Is a risky approach since it is really unlikely (impossible Huh

) to see these huge returns in the future/same time span.  
If inflation were to grow so much and therefore also Bitcoin get this huge revaluation…what would be the real impact on the world economy? I think it could be just a big mess/disaster....

GreatArkansas

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If all or most people will use Bitcoin only as a store of value, maybe it will solve the issue, mass adoption is the answer.
Since Bitcoin is a deflationary asset, supply is limited completely opposite of the fiat currency we have right now. And that's why that we are experiencing high inflation these days even before, and I believe it will continue.

josephsonand

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Hanging politicians and central bankers might sound like a tempting solution, but I think we need to dig deeper into the complex factors that contribute to inflation. Blaming them alone won't solve the issue. As for Bitcoin, it's not a magical fix to inflation. While it has its benefits, it's not a panacea for economic problems. We need to explore a comprehensive approach rather than looking for quick fixes.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on June 07, 2023, 02:32:40 PM

A pizza now cost a full days wages when I first started working. We need to hang the politicians and central bankers.

Min wage was $5.50 when I started it is $16.50 now.

In 15 years we have inflated 3x.

In another 15 years a pizza will cost $100.

how does bitcoin fix this?

inb4 some idiot mentions the bitcoin pizza and does not realize the price of that pizza still went up as well.

Bitcoin cannot fix the inflation suffered by fiat currencies, bitcoin is a parallel system and at best it can help us to alleviate some of the consequences we may suffer because of that inflation.

This can be done as the increase on the price of bitcoin is faster than the increase on the inflation, but this does not solve the problem of fiat currencies, as any wealth you have stored in that form is going down because of the inflation, in a way this is similar to what the rich and wealthy already do, in which most of their wealth is stored on pieces of art, stocks and real estate, and very little of their wealth is on cash as they understand this mechanism really well.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on June 07, 2023, 02:32:40 PM

A pizza now cost a full days wages when I first started working. We need to hang the politicians and central bankers.

Min wage was $5.50 when I started it is $16.50 now.

In 15 years we have inflated 3x.

In another 15 years a pizza will cost $100.

how does bitcoin fix this?

inb4 some idiot mentions the bitcoin pizza and does not realize the price of that pizza still went up as well.

Bitcoin does not guarantee to reduce inflation. But the way Bitcoin is developing it automatically fights Against inflation. Bitcoin's journey began in 2009. 13 years ago on Jul 15, 2010 the lowest Bitcoin price was $0.04865 according to coinmarketcap data. Now the price of Bitcoin though has dropped a lot from ATH but still Bitcoin is at +54247363.89% from its ATL. Then you think how much Bitcoin has developed in the last 13 years. And you now think whether bitcoin is fighting inflation and whether bitcoin can reduce inflation.

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Quote from: kro55 on June 07, 2023, 11:34:02 PM

Bitcoin cannot solve or fix the inflation of the national or world economy, as long as the government continues to print money unchecked, inflation will continue to soar in the future. But bitcoin as an asset is resistant to inflation due to its limited supply and value increasing over time.
So you can use bitcoin to fight inflation your way. Instead of saving in fiat, allocate some to bitcoin, and if bitcoin continues to grow in the future, at least your money won't be eaten away by inflation.

My view may be the same where Bitcoin can become one of the instruments that individuals use to protect the value of their wealth from the effects of inflation. For example, rather than keeping all of the money in fiat currency, one might consider allocating some to Bitcoin. If Bitcoin continues to grow in the future, at least the value of the money won't be eroded by inflation and this needs to be underlined Bitcoin can provide protection against inflation on an individual scale, improvement of inflation as a whole requires broader action, including economic policies implemented by governments and financial institutions at the national and international levels.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on June 07, 2023, 02:32:40 PM

A pizza now cost a full days wages when I first started working. We need to hang the politicians and central bankers.

Min wage was $5.50 when I started it is $16.50 now.

In 15 years we have inflated 3x.

In another 15 years a pizza will cost $100.

how does bitcoin fix this?

inb4 some idiot mentions the bitcoin pizza and does not realize the price of that pizza still went up as well.

Are you from Canada? Seems we got similar prices as yours mentioned.

Yes inflation is crazy. Hence why Bank of Canada did a surprise hike of 25 bps because inflation is not under control and employment is very tight.

Seems every month there are more and more prices increases. These days a decent medium pizza is like $15 here and maybe $21 or so for a large size. A remember a few years ago a decent pizza was more like $9 or so. So it certainly has gotten crazy.

And the wages obviously haven’t caught up.

kro55

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*STOP NOWHERE*

Bitcoin cannot solve or fix the inflation of the national or world economy, as long as the government continues to print money unchecked, inflation will continue to soar in the future. But bitcoin as an asset is resistant to inflation due to its limited supply and value increasing over time.
So you can use bitcoin to fight inflation your way. Instead of saving in fiat, allocate some to bitcoin, and if bitcoin continues to grow in the future, at least your money won't be eaten away by inflation.

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Some of our users use bitcoin as a store of value like digital gold because it is fight against inflation for the long term. But in the short term the volatility of bitcoin makes some people leave although you can get way more more profit if you can play with the volatility.

Quote from: btc_angela on June 07, 2023, 08:18:16 PM

But please don't look at bitcoin as something that can make your rich in such small amount of time or will be the answer for all the problems that exists, including poverty and hunger, it's not the answer.

and I agree with this Bitcoin not the answer to all the problems. To achieve the goal of bitcoin we need more adoption and some government support by not ban the crypto too Cheesy

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on June 07, 2023, 02:32:40 PM

A pizza now cost a full days wages when I first started working. We need to hang the politicians and central bankers.

Min wage was $5.50 when I started it is $16.50 now.

In 15 years we have inflated 3x.

In another 15 years a pizza will cost $100.

how does bitcoin fix this?

inb4 some idiot mentions the bitcoin pizza and does not realize the price of that pizza still went up as well.

Lol, I don't get it, why people really think that bitcoin is that magic bean to really solve every human problems that we have right now? Yes, you can invest on btc and see how it goes for you in the next 4 years (at least full bear/bull cycle run will do and see it for yourself).

But please don't look at bitcoin as something that can make your rich in such small amount of time or will be the answer for all the problems that exists, including poverty and hunger, it's not the answer.

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Bitcoin doesn't fix anything if it's not getting adopted. And the way things are now, people only use it as an investment for short-medium term, rather than paying with it for goods and services. If people are using Bitcoin as an investment to avoid erasure of their savings, than Bitcoin is no different from gold or real estate. With this logic you can say that inflation doesn't matter because you can invest fiat money into something, including Bitcoin.

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