4.45 million bitcoin untouched for 5yrs,do BTC community can retrieve in future?

fullhdpixel

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Quote from: mindrust on June 03, 2022, 01:09:47 AM

Quote from: Andrik Viate on June 02, 2022, 03:23:48 AM

My questions is that ' is there any possibility that some point in time in future BTC community might decide something which can retrieve this lost BTCs?

How do you know these coins are lost? Maybe they are just "holding" these coins? BTC community can't do anything about this at all. The system is decentralized and immutable. Meaning you can't retrieve lost coins and you don't know if they are lost in the first place. This is the beauty of blockchain. A mistake or not, once it is done, there is no turning back. People may try to fork bitcoin off but all they'll have is a worthless chain which nobody will be using.

He instantly assumes that the coins are lost just because they are untouched for 5 years now but you can be right with that. What if the coins aren't really lost but what if someone is just holding them? They are not an ordinary person like us that are emotional and can easily sell our btc when we see a small dump or pump in the price but they can be big institutions or whales whose aim is to hodl for a long time to reap maximum benefits since they already figured out the potential of btc.

The guys prolly started buying and hodling btc on the year 2017 because if we will count it, that will be exactly 5 years up to this date we have now.

blatchcorn

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Quote from: LoyceV on June 02, 2022, 03:30:05 AM

Quote from: Andrik Viate on June 02, 2022, 03:23:48 AM

My questions is that ' is there any possibility that some point in time in future BTC community might decide something which can retrieve this lost BTCs?

No.

Quote from: satoshi on June 21, 2010, 12:48:26 PM

Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone.

We can say that lost bitcoins are like token burning in deflationary tokens. Where token burning reduces the circulation of coins and that makes token demand to surpass token supply. There are 21 million bitcoins that will be ever generated, if out of those 21 million let's say 5 million are lost forever then we are left with 16 million bitcoin only.

justdimin

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Quote from: kryptqnick on June 03, 2022, 06:44:01 AM

For now, it's impossible and likely to stay this way. It's also a good point that some coins which are presumed to be stolen might be unmoved for other reasons, a person has the right to not move one's coins. If you didn't touch the money in your bank account savings for 5 years, would you find it fair if the bank redistributed all your money to some random people? If not, then you shouldn't want the retrieval of "lost" coins either. Also, if one day it does become possible to crack the keys (say, due to huge progress in quantum computing), the moment it becomes possible Bitcoin itself becomes obsolete because the money isn't protected any more. So there won't be a point of retrieving something worthless.

We can't make any decisions, that is the difference. I mean the talk here is that "maybe we should redistribute it again" or something like that but at the end of the day we can't do that. We can't retrieve it, so all the discussion about "should we?" goes to nothing at all.

If the discussion is about something that we can't do, can we please talk about how I would like to spend a day with Kate Upton and Alexandria Daddario at the same time? That has more chance of happening than Bitcoins untouched to be redistributed, one is "technically" possible, obviously not going to happen, but at least it is not "impossible", the other one is literally impossible to do.

BlackHatCoiner

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Quote from: Argoo on June 04, 2022, 12:51:56 AM

Experts have calculated that in ten years quantum computers will be able to do this

Quantum computers aren't said to reverse hashes, since that's, if not impossible, infeasible. The danger from quantum computing lies to addresses that have revealed their public keys, because ECLDP is said to be solvable. That affects mainly the early P2PK outputs.

Quote from: Argoo on June 04, 2022, 12:51:56 AM

We do not know which way the further development of the cryptocurrency will go, but I hope that we will be able to solve this emerging problem in time.

Sure, it can be resolved with consensus. There just isn't a point to do it now; it'll just worsen the scaling problem without tangible benefit.

Argoo

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on June 02, 2022, 06:39:52 AM

Quote from: NotATether on June 02, 2022, 05:26:36 AM

[...]

What I meant is that I'll never accept to freeze coins or move them arbitrarily without a digital signature. That'd make bitcoin susceptible to censorship.

Quote from: mk4 on June 02, 2022, 05:35:54 AM

In the first place, how would you know if coins on certain wallet addresses are actually 'lost' and not with the owner just holding silently by not spending or moving the coins around?

Exactly. We don't know if those early outputs are still accessible, and therefore can't make a conclusion. In fact, we keep seeing people, occasionally, who unlock outputs that are more than a decade old.

Nevertheless, the problem of accessibility to previously lost bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies remains and it continues to be relevant. Experts have calculated that in ten years quantum computers will be able to do this, and this is subject to the current pace of their development. In addition to positive aspects in this regard, this will also mean the possibility of our wallets being hacked using such computers by various malefactors who will surely gain access to them. We do not know which way the further development of the cryptocurrency will go, but I hope that we will be able to solve this emerging problem in time.

bananas

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Quote from: hZti on June 03, 2022, 05:20:16 AM

I think many people overestimate the amount of Bitcoins that are actually lost forever. Many people don't want to sell them and there is also no point in sending them around. Also there is a big security concern to take them out of cold storage. So to me it is normal that many coins are not touched for 5+ years.

I believe te estimates are probably about right, in 5+ years coins tend to move for whatever reason. I do "have" a few coins lost forever in the blockchain myself. Probably most early adopters do "own" lost coins.

kryptqnick

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Quote from: Andrik Viate on June 02, 2022, 03:23:48 AM

My questions is that ' is there any possibility that some point in time in future BTC community might decide something which can retrieve this lost BTCs?

For now, it's impossible and likely to stay this way. It's also a good point that some coins which are presumed to be stolen might be unmoved for other reasons, a person has the right to not move one's coins. If you didn't touch the money in your bank account savings for 5 years, would you find it fair if the bank redistributed all your money to some random people? If not, then you shouldn't want the retrieval of "lost" coins either. Also, if one day it does become possible to crack the keys (say, due to huge progress in quantum computing), the moment it becomes possible Bitcoin itself becomes obsolete because the money isn't protected any more. So there won't be a point of retrieving something worthless.

hZti

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I think many people overestimate the amount of Bitcoins that are actually lost forever. Many people don't want to sell them and there is also no point in sending them around. Also there is a big security concern to take them out of cold storage. So to me it is normal that many coins are not touched for 5+ years.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: BITCOIN4X on June 03, 2022, 05:14:11 AM

The OP knows that once the owner of a bitcoin wallet loses access to his wallet, he will no longer be able to move bitcoin. But I think he just wanted to know if there is any possibility that bitcoins from that wallet could be moved especially as technology advances.

Since he was asking about the funds getting redistributed back for the community (at least that's how I see his question), the problem is that you don't know if an untouched fund it like that on purpose or because one has lost access. And even if it's on purpose, one should not be forced to move his coins away (again, see collectibles).

If he was asking about "technology advances", (afaik) the oldest generation of addresses is considered relatively unsafe. But, as you can see, they are still pretty much safe enough. Satoshi's funds are still there.

BITCOIN4X

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Quote from: Kakmakr on June 03, 2022, 12:29:00 AM

Let's turn the table for a moment....

Imagine that some of those coins was yours... will you like it if someone "touch" your coins, just because you hoarded those coins for 5 years? Do you think Bitcoin will be embraced and trusted by the public, if uncirculated coins are moved, without the owners permission?

The Banks will "lock" inactive accounts, if you do not use them, because they want you to use that money... so that they can charge you fees. In Bitcoin ..YOU are your own Bank and you have FULL control over your own coins. Wink

The OP knows that once the owner of a bitcoin wallet loses access to his wallet, he will no longer be able to move bitcoin. But I think he just wanted to know if there is any possibility that bitcoins from that wallet could be moved especially as technology advances.

We're probably pretty sure that it can no longer be moved because no one else has the private key to access the wallet, so the answer is probably pretty self-explanatory as satoshi says in the quote.

Quote from: satoshi on June 21, 2010, 12:48:26 PM

Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone.

decodx

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Quote from: Andrik Viate on June 02, 2022, 03:23:48 AM

My questions is that ' is there any possibility that some point in time in future BTC community might decide something which can retrieve this lost BTCs?

The act of allowing anyone to spend coins that they do not own, for which they do not have private keys, would mean that Bitcoin has failed in its primary function, and ultimately that would be the end of Bitcoin. The reason that Bitcoin has survived for so long is because the blockchain is immutable and untamperable.

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Quote from: Andrik Viate on June 02, 2022, 03:23:48 AM

My questions is that ' is there any possibility that some point in time in future BTC community might decide something which can retrieve this lost BTCs?

To begin with the fact there are coins which have not moved for a long time does not mean those coins are lost, we have seen many cases of coins that were thought to be lost eventually moving, so unless someone which was the confirmed owner of the private key of a particular address later stated they had lost their private key we cannot know for sure if the coins are lost or not, also what you are proposing goes against the spirit of bitcoin, which is that no can spend their coins without the private key, and if something like this were approved I can guarantee you bitcoin will stop existing, as at that point it would not be different than fiat at all.

mindrust

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Quote from: Andrik Viate on June 02, 2022, 03:23:48 AM

My questions is that ' is there any possibility that some point in time in future BTC community might decide something which can retrieve this lost BTCs?

How do you know these coins are lost? Maybe they are just "holding" these coins? BTC community can't do anything about this at all. The system is decentralized and immutable. Meaning you can't retrieve lost coins and you don't know if they are lost in the first place. This is the beauty of blockchain. A mistake or not, once it is done, there is no turning back. People may try to fork bitcoin off but all they'll have is a worthless chain which nobody will be using.

worle1bm

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Quote from: Andrik Viate on June 02, 2022, 03:23:48 AM

My questions is that ' is there any possibility that some point in time in future BTC community might decide something which can retrieve this lost BTCs?

The coins lost cannot be retrieved as you need the keys for the same and only the owner of the funds have it which is why it's said you need to secure it properly on your end.The supply is shrinking due to these lost coins and we all know there will never be 21 million coins in circulation which will boost the prices even more when demand gets too high.

davis196

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Quote from: Andrik Viate on June 02, 2022, 03:23:48 AM

My questions is that ' is there any possibility that some point in time in future BTC community might decide something which can retrieve this lost BTCs?

Just ask yourself, why would the Bitcoin community decide to do such thing?
Will this bring some sort of benefit for the entire BTC community? Some Bitcoiners might recover their access to lost BTC(if they provide sufficient proof, which is highly unlikely to happen, in 80% of the cases), but the Bitcoin price will go down. We as a community will lose money, just because we want to help the people, who were irresponsible enough to forget their passwords, sees phrases, private keys, sent BTC to the wrong address, etc. Rewarding the irresponsible people and punishing the responsible people? This sounds like dumb socialism to me.

Kakmakr

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Let's turn the table for a moment....

Imagine that some of those coins was yours... will you like it if someone "touch" your coins, just because you hoarded those coins for 5 years? Do you think Bitcoin will be embraced and trusted by the public, if uncirculated coins are moved, without the owners permission?

The Banks will "lock" inactive accounts, if you do not use them, because they want you to use that money... so that they can charge you fees. In Bitcoin ..YOU are your own Bank and you have FULL control over your own coins. Wink

avikz

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on June 02, 2022, 03:49:12 AM

I will speak for myself, as I don't know what's the others' opinion (neither do I care): I will never configure my node to do such thing.

Can it really be done by configuring a node? Then what about the security of the coins of a long term holder? You never know when a person decides to use their bitcoin that is untouched for years.

My understanding was, if we need any such changes, a consensus needs to happed and a fork should follow after that. Is that not the case?

BitFinnese

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Quote from: Andrik Viate on June 02, 2022, 03:23:48 AM

My questions is that ' is there any possibility that some point in time in future BTC community might decide something which can retrieve this lost BTCs?

At the current configuration of the Bitcoin protocols, it is a NO, but who knows, maybe one day a consensus can be agreed upon where idle Bitcoin for x amount of time can be retrieved but of course, it needs a fork for that. I am not into forking Bitcoins just for the sake of retrieving "lost Bitcoins" because this may cause a huge problem when one day the owner of those "lost Bitcoin" decided to move or use it.

philipma1957

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Quote from: LoyceV on June 02, 2022, 03:30:05 AM

Quote from: Andrik Viate on June 02, 2022, 03:23:48 AM

My questions is that ' is there any possibility that some point in time in future BTC community might decide something which can retrieve this lost BTCs?

No.

Quote from: satoshi on June 21, 2010, 12:48:26 PM

Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone.

Satoshi’s creation has had changes it will have more.

I am pretty much certain that a time limit forfeiture will be proposed around 2075.

I will be dead and since I have no kids I don’t care one way or another.

My guess is the rule will be simple.

block 1 stays frozen 🥶

any addresses after that one with 60 years or more and no withdrawal will be forfeited.

You need only move a little out of the address and clock starts again.

I would think that well under 2 million are lost not 4.5 million.

Many disagree with me and say it wont happen.

AnotherAlt

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Quote from: Little Mouse on June 02, 2022, 12:12:45 PM

We don't know if they arr lost or not. How do you know? It os very unlikely that there are BTCs which are stuck (lost). Owner/someone else can get private key too.
Imagine, in 2050, someone will dig soil and found a hardware wallet which will have X amount of BTC lol.

I agree with you.

The Bitcoins remaining untouched doesn't mean they are lost. Maybe some of them are lost but not all of them. Often we see news that A Bitcoin dormant account wakes up with million worth of BTC. Here is some news you may want to check.

Also, There is Twitter Account named Whale Alert often Post Dormant account waking alert like This One.

Topic: 4.45 million bitcoin untouched for 5yrs,do BTC community can retrieve in future? (Read 464 times)