4,836 Hacked BTC from Binance laundered through Chipmixer - page 2.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: LoyceV on October 19, 2021, 04:14:11 AM

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on October 18, 2021, 08:06:15 PM

analysis can be done to ensure any coin being mixed is not stolen.

That would mean 1 BTC ≠ 1 BTC! It means you could never accept a payment without doing an investigation, and the evidence of a possible theft (possibly far up the blockchain) could be weak. What if someone claims you stole the Bitcoin he paid you?
I'd say that's a terrible slippery slope to enter.

I specifically did not endorse the proposal I brought forth. Automated tools could be used to detect if a transaction is associated with a theft/hack, and could act accordingly. I do agree that there are issues if it is not clear cut if the coin being sent is actually stolen, or even if a hack/theft even took place. This is why it is better to let the courts decide, and judgements could be enforced when someone tries to convert their coin to fiat (not stablecoin).

As I mentioned in my previous post, if you are moving 4k BTC through CM, for all intents and purposes, a competent professional blockchain analysis firm should be able to trace where the coin is withdrawn to.

YOSHIE

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Quote from: LoyceV on October 19, 2021, 05:32:03 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

New option, just straightening out, actual working chipmixers.

Why are you sharing a bunch of phishing sites? Please don't do that!
Archived at loyce.club

I myself don't know the site is phishing, in my opinion if it leads to phishing, it needs to be told to the Bitcointalk community especially.

To prevent unwanted things, such as data, fraud or theft of email or documents.

It needs to be prevented, because the site is very easy to find in a google search.

LoyceV

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Quote from: ?? on ??

New option, just straightening out, actual working chipmixers.

Why are you sharing a bunch of phishing sites? Please don't do that!
Archived at loyce.club

SmokerFace

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Quote from: ABCbits on October 19, 2021, 04:40:42 AM

I'll just drop additional relevant material.

Chainalysis: Most Mixed Bitcoin Not Used for Illicit Purposes

Image source: https://e-cryptonews.com/chainalysis-most-mixed-bitcoin-not-used-for-illicit-purposes/

Should've shared everything on the website rather than "Make you look image ONLY"

Do I have to explain in detail the services on DarkMarket such as -

Illegal weapons, Drugs, ChildPorn, Hitman services, DOXing. Anyone?

In Any case ChipMixer did receive a Minimum 4836 BTC from an exchange's funds called Binance It's another matter that owner of Binance didn't approve of the transaction.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote

• no fee, donation only – pay as much as you want

Imagine ChipMixer having 10,000 Bitcoins and a Well Known Hacker mixed their 10,000 BTC with ChipMixer's,

-FBI tracked those funds.
-Now ChipMixer using those Hacker's funds to make mix someone else's BTC.
-User who mixed their BTC through Chipmixer ends up getting a fraction of Hacker's Coins and attracts the FBI.
-Now FBI traces those funds to an Exchange he deposited and Gets a Legal warrant to get information on the user.
-Exchange has no Option but to co-operate "But where privacy"?
-Happens to arrest someone and waste their time "That's another story if they get released or not"
-And this doesn't happen to a single user.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

ABCbits

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I'll just drop additional relevant material.

Chainalysis: Most Mixed Bitcoin Not Used for Illicit Purposes

Image source: https://e-cryptonews.com/chainalysis-most-mixed-bitcoin-not-used-for-illicit-purposes/

LoyceV

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Quote from: OgNasty on October 18, 2021, 04:55:43 PM

advertising money laundering schemes that have now been proven to launder illegally gotten funds for criminals...

Wait, are you talking about Bitcoin? Or maybe you're talking about fiat money or even just any kind of money in general? Aren't you a gun advocate, despite knowing for a fact guns are used to murder people? Do you see the irony here, or should I call it hypocrisy?

Quote from: OgNasty on February 27, 2016, 12:18:42 AM

Paid signature campaigns ~ are making this community a really crappy place.

Lol. Look who's now advertising an online casino.

Quote from: suchmoon on October 18, 2021, 08:34:13 PM

Good effort by OgNasty to raise the bullshit-per-post average for this thread

Don't be harsh, some of it makes a lot of sense:

Quote from: OgNasty on October 18, 2021, 04:55:43 PM

Disgusting double standards...

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on October 18, 2021, 08:06:15 PM

analysis can be done to ensure any coin being mixed is not stolen.

That would mean 1 BTC ≠ 1 BTC! It means you could never accept a payment without doing an investigation, and the evidence of a possible theft (possibly far up the blockchain) could be weak. What if someone claims you stole the Bitcoin he paid you?
I'd say that's a terrible slippery slope to enter.

suchmoon

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Quote from: Desmong on October 18, 2021, 05:59:55 PM

You don't need to be angry about his comment.
Everybody must no support your opinion...hoping you are getting it now Grin

That was not an opinion, that was a statement of fact. I can't really be bothered to give a fuck if anyone "supports" it, just pointing out when lying liars lie.

A few more from Og's chickenshit edit:

Quote from: OgNasty on October 18, 2021, 04:55:43 PM

ibminer left me negative feedback and has been trolling me for years over advertising a legitimate gambling site

False.

Easy to verify by looking at OgNasty's trust page what the negative feedback is for.

Quote from: OgNasty on October 18, 2021, 04:55:43 PM

a legitimate gambling site that he lost money using

False.

ibminer doesn't gamble.

Quote from: OgNasty on October 18, 2021, 04:55:43 PM

his partner in crime suchmoon

False.

I have not partnered with ibminer in any crimes.

Quote from: OgNasty on October 18, 2021, 04:55:43 PM

advertising money laundering schemes

False.

I'm not advertising "money laundering schemes".

Good effort by OgNasty to raise the bullshit-per-post average for this thread but he's got nothing on true walls-of-text legends like cryptohunter and nullius. Maybe they can come back for a Halloween zombietroll show.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: actmyname on October 18, 2021, 03:13:59 PM

What would your proposed solution be? Try to answer this question with a succinct response.

The argument the OP seems to be making is something along the lines of that CM has profited from thieves using their services in the past, therefore those wearing the CM signature should resign their positions if they want to maintain credibility when discussing ethics. (This is not my personal stance, but rather is my reading of the OPs stance).

I don’t think there is evidence that CM profited from the theft/hack in question by mixing the stolen coin. Given the amount involved, I think a competent blockchain analysis firm could reasonably track the stolen coin through CM.

To answer your question as to what can be done, additional confirmations can be required and analysis can be done to ensure any coin being mixed is not stolen. Given 200-300 confirmations, could blockchain analysis detect stolen coin? Yes, probably. Is this a reasonable request? No I don’t think so, but this is up for debate. As I mentioned, with the amounts involved, blockchain analysis should be able to detect the outputs of the stolen coin in question.

I think the benefits that mixers give, such as giving privacy for those dealing with moderate amounts, outweighs the drawbacks of mixers (the additional difficulty in tracking stolen and/or illegitimately obtained coin).

Desmong

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Quote from: suchmoon on October 18, 2021, 05:28:52 PM

Quote from: OgNasty on October 18, 2021, 04:55:43 PM

If any other signature campaign was advertising services like this, they would be attacked and trolled into non-existence on this forum. Every user wearing the signature would be blasted with negative feedback, and possibly warning flags as well.

That's absurd. There have been many mixers advertised here over the years without any of this apocalyptic shit you just made up.

You don't need to be angry about his comment.
Everybody must no support your opinion...hoping you are getting it now Grin

I have an uncle here that can support anything scam...please pray I should not disclose his name Roll Eyes

suchmoon

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Quote from: OgNasty on October 18, 2021, 04:55:43 PM

If any other signature campaign was advertising services like this, they would be attacked and trolled into non-existence on this forum. Every user wearing the signature would be blasted with negative feedback, and possibly warning flags as well.

That's absurd. There have been many mixers advertised here over the years without any of this apocalyptic shit you just made up.

OgNasty

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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

If any other signature campaign was advertising services like this, they would be attacked and trolled into non-existence on this forum. Every user wearing the signature would be blasted with negative feedback, and possibly warning flags as well. Why isn't this happening here you ask? That's simple. It's the guys that wear the chipmixer signatures that are the ones who do this to everyone else. Now that they're wearing scam enabling signatures, all you get is them claiming they aren't responsible or deflecting and acting like nothing bad is happening. Meanwhile these same individuals suck each other off on the trust network and with merit cycling. Disgusting double standards...

Edit: Funny that suchmoon's buddy ibminer left me negative feedback and has been trolling me for years over advertising a legitimate gambling site that he lost money using, but has no problem with his partner in crime suchmoon advertising money laundering schemes that have now been proven to launder illegally gotten funds for criminals...

Ask yourself why the self-described scam busters here are advertising operations that launder money for scams while the forum's position is not to moderate scams without coming to a nefarious conclusion...

Flython

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on October 18, 2021, 04:08:25 PM

I'll be honest with you--I don't even know how Chipmixer works myself, but that's mostly because I'm too fucking stupid to understand the intricacies of things that can be done on blockchains. I've picked up some knowledge over the years, but I never really had the time or the "tech intelligence" that it takes to understand how a service like Chipmixer works. I'd admit to other things I'm ignorant about, but I don't feel like embarrassing myself even more.

As far as advertising for Chipmixer, I get SmokerFace's point, but it's kind of the same argument that bitcoin is bad because it's been used to buy drugs and all sorts of other illegal stuff. From a campaigner's point of view, signature space is just being rented out in the same manner as a TV station selling ad spots to anyone that pays. If what's being advertised is a known scam, then I have a problem with it--but just because a scammer used a service to launder money doesn't mean the service is in the wrong. Perhaps they should have checked those incoming funds....but I really don't know how they do things.

Thanks for the honesty. by the way - I ask this question out of curiosity - on the other hand I also know that bitcoin can be used for good and evil - a real example in the country where I live this case occurred around 2019 - when bitcoin was misused as an illegal transaction due to its anonymity which is difficult to trace - someone is abusing to fund terrorist groups and other illicit transactions - this reminds me of the $25k SmallRabbit Scam - is there any chance he is using Chipmixer to monetize his scam there?
I don't question earnings when using Chipmixer signatures - that's your privacy and probably not a nice thing to say in public. I just want to know how the chipmixer works.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: Flython on October 18, 2021, 06:42:23 AM

I still don't understand what Chipmixer is, as far as I can see there are some high ranking members using Chipmixer signature

I'll be honest with you--I don't even know how Chipmixer works myself, but that's mostly because I'm too fucking stupid to understand the intricacies of things that can be done on blockchains. I've picked up some knowledge over the years, but I never really had the time or the "tech intelligence" that it takes to understand how a service like Chipmixer works. I'd admit to other things I'm ignorant about, but I don't feel like embarrassing myself even more.

As far as advertising for Chipmixer, I get SmokerFace's point, but it's kind of the same argument that bitcoin is bad because it's been used to buy drugs and all sorts of other illegal stuff. From a campaigner's point of view, signature space is just being rented out in the same manner as a TV station selling ad spots to anyone that pays. If what's being advertised is a known scam, then I have a problem with it--but just because a scammer used a service to launder money doesn't mean the service is in the wrong. Perhaps they should have checked those incoming funds....but I really don't know how they do things.

actmyname

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What would your proposed solution be? Try to answer this question with a succinct response.

For example, KYC or identification-based structures defeat the purpose of the platform. Should it simply not exist, at all?

SmokerFace

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Quote from: LoyceV on October 18, 2021, 09:32:35 AM

This covers how I feel about it pretty well:

That settles things down a bit for me but not completely.

I don't want to delve into finances but they seem to be getting enough to pay for the campaign and their own profit.
To me, this Binance case is only a tip of the iceberg.

Quote from: NeuroticFish on October 18, 2021, 09:43:07 AM

Quote from: SmokerFace on October 18, 2021, 06:20:00 AM

paid with the Commissions from the hacker who used ChipMixer?

If you would read more before ~~posting~~ trolling, you would know that Chimpixer is for free, no commission involved, only donations.
I wanted to continue with "So you were saying what?", but no, I won't, since your answer doesn't matter to me. Trolls are trolls and should not be fed.

who r u again?

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: SmokerFace on October 18, 2021, 06:20:00 AM

paid with the Commissions from the hacker who used ChipMixer?

If you would read more before ~~posting~~ trolling, you would know that Chimpixer is for free, no commission involved, only donations.
I wanted to continue with "So you were saying what?", but no, I won't, since your answer doesn't matter to me. Trolls are trolls and should not be fed.

LoyceV

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This covers how I feel about it pretty well:

Quote from: ChipMixer on October 06, 2021, 07:13:53 PM

We do not launder funds. We do not attack competition.
If you believe this is not true - prove it.
~
Some people bet and gamble. Some use service at your signature. They may have problem because some other people believe it is immoral. They may use our service to avoid people like that. It is their right and we help them with it.

Did any bitcointalk scammer used ChipMixer to hide their scammed funds? Yes. Are we part of group that scamms people at bitcointalk? No. Do we profit from it? No unless scammers donate and I doubt they do. Can we stop scammer from using our service? I do not think we can.

And this:

Quote from: ChipMixer on September 16, 2021, 06:44:01 PM

Imagine this. You buy a new car. You have paid a lot but car salesman does not give you your car. Instead they tell you that some of the banknotes you have used were previously owned by Morally Wrong People. One of them ate pork. Second one gambled. Third said bad word about our Great Leader. Your money is gone. If you are lucky you will not end up in jail.

If you allow others to dictate how much your assets are worth - you will be tricked. Do not allow others to tell you your Bitcoin is worth only half because they think something happened. Do not allow others to keep your Bitcoin because they say it is not worth anything.
We recommend to not to deal with services that treat Bitcoin as non-fungible.

And this:

Quote from: ChipMixer on July 20, 2021, 06:01:11 PM

Calling some chips "clean" makes other chips "dirty". This damages Bitcoin reputation making it bad people money. We do not want that.

If we went dishonest and offered "clean chips" without explaining what makes them "clean" we could attract a lot of people especially if we advertised at dark net websites.
But with our price strategy more customers and more volume does not make more money. It makes us want to attract honest privacy minded people that know a lot or want to learn and they know what our tool is worth for them.

Virtually anything on the planet can be used for good and evil. You choose your own path, but the fact that things can be abused doesn't mean we should stop using them! If you disagree: good luck with the gun lobby!

SmokerFace

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Quote from: LeGaulois on October 18, 2021, 08:30:15 AM

I wonder if your goal is only to create dramas in the forum. I have news for you: people don't give a shit

Neither do I, even if someone losing their life.

LeGaulois

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I don't even know what to say, other than facepalm.
It looks like you are born yesterday and you discovered the world.

Quote

Anything in your defence?

Yes, coins control Cheesy

You receive interest from your bank accounts. How do you feel to receive money from companies involved in money laundering? Let me spin your sentence. You certainly talk a lot about morals and ethics but you accept the payment that came from the commissions of someone who did the wrong deeds, Anything in your defense?

I wonder if your goal is only to create dramas in the forum. I have news for you: people don't give a shit

SmokerFace

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Quote from: Jawhead999 on October 18, 2021, 08:00:59 AM

The same goes you receive your salary from your employer, you never know it's from legal or illegal.

What do you know happens to the Employers of Money Laundering services IRL?, What does the cops, government does to them?

Topic: 4,836 Hacked BTC from Binance laundered through Chipmixer - page 2. (Read 917 times)