Topic: $6k to invest in miner today. DIY or Commercial? Suggestions? (Read 3740 times)

I can get you 150GH/s with zero hosting costs in under a day from payment 

If bitcoin loose value, you loose much more if you invested in mining.

If you are lucky, yes you can make more with mining but it is gambling, so it's not a good investment.

Why would that matter? Every bot has a human owner.

yah and bots trading to bots isn't any part of your numbers right??

Ah, again the fallacy of miners having any effect on the market.

Bitcoins minted by miners / ~10-14 days: 50400

Bitstamp$ 10 day  volume : ~102020

Only 1 single exchange does approximately twice the volume of bitcoins generated by miners in 10 or so days.


TheGambler@: Currently with mining, it can easily be around 1 year or never and it's not even predictable how much your income degrade. ;-)

I think at the moment it's much better to buy some BTC than enter mining.

just keep buying bitcoins while we mine, don't worry you are the smart one, we are the dummies for mining..  nope, no ROI in sight ever, just keep buying our bitcoins though..  please drive through

Why would you exchange something gaining value for something losing value?

The thing to look at is what you want to do with bitcoins, if you're taking a punt on selling them for "profit" then you'd have to consider what the rate of fiat inflation might be and what the things you'd want to actually buy would cost in fiat at that point. Even if the fiat exchange rate shows a 100 fold increase per bitcoin in "the future" it's of little use if everything else you might want or need to buy at that time has increased by the same.

The problem is that the new generation of mining hardware is half this price, less than 0.1 btc/Gh/s as currently advertised and at current fiat rates with much reduced power usage on top, which will be an increasingly significant factor.

OK, you have to wait for that gear but if the likes of KnC do deliver and it doesn't end up being another BFL fiasco then anything you buy now means you'll be left with a very expensive lump of hardware that hasn't a snowballs hope in hell of returning any sort of profit.

I'd go as far as saying the same about KnCminers, or any other hardware for sale, you read people getting all excited and planning what to spend their millions on when they get their new hardware, utterly deluded, it's really sad to see it. By all means go for it as a hobby if you can afford to but those planning early retirement and lives of luxury on the back of bitcoin mining are going to get badly burned by the whole experience.

May I promote our (TAV's) products?
- Redhash 105 Gh/s (shipping in 3 days) currently being sold at ~20 BTC. That's only 0.19 BTC per Gh/s
- Asicminer blades are more expensive: 13 Gh/s at ~3.5 BTC. That's 0.27 BTC per Gh/s

OP asked for commercial solutions at ~$6k. Redhash units seem a good fit.

I'd think long and hard (I'm talking bitcoin mining now) before blowing $6K on any hardware at all. Unless you're bored, have fiat money to burn and want a new hobby.

There is no ROI to be had unless and until bitcoin gets adopted into mainstream commerce. Bitcoin may well be around for ever but until it gets widespread acceptance and commercial usage it's going nowhere. The fiat value of bitcoin is a bit of a red herring too imo, as others have said, if the fiat exchange rate increases mining gets more "profitable" and everyone jumps in. Then everything evens out again and gets back to where it was and you and everyone else then have to spend even more to get back ahead again in the race for your share of each slice of the dwindling mining supply.

If you're just thinking of cashing bitcoins for a healthy fiat profit at some point then that's a punt on bitcoin ultimately failing, it's also unlikely because fiat currency is a dead cert train wreck at some point, you might get more dollars per bitcoin in future but everything you want to buy will also be worth more dollars. Why would you want to buy back into that?

Well you may be able to pirate a film ,but the real deal aint cheap ,you will need to stroke them bitcoin buttons all over her interface .
Don't even think about escrow 

Obviously... as porn is one of the biggest industry worldwide.

Do you think porn industry is doing porn for free ?

return on investment not looking so good in the near short term,
buy Bitcoin and watch it increase in value, probably faster than you can make bitcoin.

Interested to know which way you go.

when you buy 10 blades you get a backplane included

Like everything in life we need balance .

Bitcoin is attempting to correct the current financially corrupt market place were free market price discovery is a distance nostalgic memory .

1) Bitcoin need miners to survive .

2) Need a healthy honest market.(fueling a healthy valuation of bitcoin )

Currently mining technology is advancing very fast ,to counter this the mining difficulty is rising at a staggering pace leaving lots of individuals questioning there investment .

The market is very immature and has yet to find its feet ,until the market gains traction and the price rises mining will be seen as a hobby by some ,when the price of bitcoin rises mining will become more attractive again and the cycle will continue through the life of bitcoin.

When you realise The UK as an example  is in a financial position such that no other country in history has ever survived without a major currency re-evaluation then the one thing you do not want is that countries fiat in anything larger than you need to spend monthly .

The last re-evaluation in the uk was not long ago ,it was 15 February 1971 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_Day.

That time they took old money till new money was fully implemented ,in the confusion to the public they also halved the value .

As an exampe your £6000 overnight will be worth £3000.

France was a bit more extreme earlier in history just like the USA Holding gold was illegal and the french beheaded anyone found holding gold .
Once these countries collected the gold ( real currency )overnight the price of it tripled and was reintroduced into circulation ,in the current example £6000 = £2000 .

Since our fiat currencies have no actual value ,beheading will not be necessary this time hehe.

Banker was originated from the french were it was an insult lol.



If bitcoin stays strong then since it is not controlled by governments's banksters it will do the opposite of what the governments intend ,in the current example bitcoins owned to the current UK value of £6,000 over a future bank holiday will be worth £12,000 assuming they devalue as in 1971 by 100% while £6000 fiat will over the same weekend become worth £3,000.

The only people that will escape are those owning virtual currencies or physical items of value .

Anyone noticed a big jump in gold prices over recent years and offers to buy your gold have you noticed the price of gold plummeting from the $1800 range ?
You are not being welcomed to gold lol but when the above events takes place gold will reflect immediately real value and could see $5000 over a bank holiday weekend .

Try to see cryptocurrency, physical gold, silver or any commodity as a wealth maintainer and possible windfall, were others not so savvy will see the little they have halved or quite likely reduced to a third .

No one can tell when this will happen ,we just know it has too .

Do people still pay for porn then?

Porn is a massive market alone, If this happens ,bitcoin value rises, more see mining as viable option it all balanced again lol.

The major downside to porn adopting bitcoin is that it will leave me a lot less bitcoin to spend 

If every person that wants to mine instead decides to buy and hold. Never spend there coin only sell if the price rises. How do we expect the currency to grow? Who is spending this coin? It seems to me that one of the driving forces in the BTC world is mining equipment. I understand what you are saying about if I buy hardware it will never have a full return but it seems that there has to be a better investment technique than this simple answer to buy and hold. BTW not I am not saying to buy hardware and Im not telling anyone that they are wrong if they do or not, I simply do not see how the buy and hold approach will work if every person who wants to get into BTC just decides to buy some coin and never spend it.

[edit: I realized I was being snotty and standoffish removed that content, not looking to start a fight.]

Another way of looking at that is:

year 2009 --value   $0
year 2013 --value   $140 ish (∞% gain)
year 2017 --value   $∞ ish .

WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE ∞AIRES!

Mining equipment does only one thing.  It gives you bitcoins.

Why would you buy mining equipment that will end up giving you less bitcoins then if you just buy them on an exchange?

If you buy mining equipment, the joke is on you.

just adding to your very nice analysis - porn industry is starting to look into bitcoin a lot so this could make it very very interesting

[/quote]

Also difficulty changes every 2 mondays at 9:00 am UTC+0


Ahh I C. Well, I said I have 6k to invest, not to spend. Its my life savings and I can only put it somewhere where it will grow. Everyone advising against mining so thats got me doubting it all... I know nobody can know this, but do you think the value of will go up as BTC gains popularity?
[/quote]

The difficulty increases every 2160 blocks solved, it currently is about 10 days .

Bitcoin will steadily increase in value as it becomes recognised and used .
Bitcoin could possibly drop to zero if a major flaw is uncovered .

In the long term prices are set to rise but the risk is that the this is still experimental and has the potential to drop to zero in an instant ,as adoption grows this gets less experimental and gains trust then there is also a potential of a similar price rise that has been seen over the initial four years ,example :-
year 2009 --value   $0
year 2013 --value   $140 ish .
year 2017 --value   $280 ish .

The next country to do a Cyprus could could skyrocket bitcoin to $1000 very quickly .
If a major foodstore adopted bitcoin  bitcoin value could skyrocket .

The bitcoin market cap is currently 1% of overall fiat .
Every percentage increase of cap will raise the value of bitcoin and reflect a growing trust and adoption.

I feel personally that miners selling there bitcoins could be stifling price .
With the current massive increases in difficulty you need an every increasing mining hashrate to produce bitcoin .

your best bet is to either buy bitcoins as a speculation or go for Asicminer Blades - shipping immediatelly for a reasonable price

+1 for buy Bitcoin. Hold.

May be a good idea.

Bet on commerical first. Suggest to spend 2K on cloudhashing. Then find me as I have link for pyramining.

Buy Bitcoin, don't mine.

Just buy $6k worth of btc and wait for it to grow and/or gamle 1k of it!

+1

Ahh I C. Well, I said I have 6k to invest, not to spend. Its my life savings and I can only put it somewhere where it will grow. Everyone advising against mining so thats got me doubting it all... I know nobody can know this, but do you think the value of will go up as BTC gains popularity?

He suggested to you to buy bitcoins directly instead of mining them.
It's better to buy 50 bitcoins, with 6k , instead of a miner that will never make you more than, lets say, 40 btc.

Also difficulty changes every 2 mondays at 9:00 am UTC+0

What makes everyone so sure the value of bitcoin is going to climb? I remember not long ago, when BTC was LESS popular, it was over $200/BTC. Now, with all the attention, it seems to be holding steady, if not falling slightly. I know nothing about projections on these matters. But it SEEMS a more sure bet that I will make $ mining than to guess on what the market will do. Am I wrong?

If you've got $6k to spend, you might as well just buy $6k worth of Bitcoins.

On fridays if the sun shines ... otherwise on mondays ....

sry... I had to write that ... the evil part of my self ...

Here are some of the commercial options I am considering, along with their max projected profit according to the G. Block:

Cointerra TerraMiner IV or II (Jan) - $488
HashFast Baby Jet (Nov or Dec for 2nd batch) - $50/$0
BitMine CoinCraft Desk 800 (Dec) - $2460
BitFury Full Kit (Oct) - $3410
KnC Miner Jupiter (Nov) - $386

DIY/Open Source:

Klondike 64
Bitfury chips - (with a different board design I hope. They charge $500 for a blank PCB! INSANE!)

I am a computer tech, programmer and electrical engineer. I have all the tools and skills required to design (using Eagle CAD) my own PCB boards and have a great fabricator who makes me VERY high quality boards for crazy prices, like $30 per board with 1 week turnaround! I am especially interested in a total DIY project from schematics. And, the Avalon ASIC chips are available right now so I hope to find a way doing this. Getting started THIS MONTH is critical due to difficulty increases. BTW, on what day does the difficulty increase?

The vague and lengthy shipping times of the commercial ones are the biggest drawback right now. But I am considering some of those also.

So my question is, for around $6,000, what is the best open source/DIY schematics design available and where can I get the details? Also, anything I might be overlooking? TIA for all advise from this GREAT community!!!

BTW: I am NOT interested in selling them if I do make one. I just want to mine for myself and am looking for the best options. I've read for months and have my own opinions but am wanting other's.