90% of bitcoin is owned by 2% of user base - page 2.

KaliLinux

hero member

Activity: 1344

Merit: 565

Quote from: Anonylz on October 07, 2022, 12:53:41 PM

It is true that the whales are in control of the market but it is not clear if they control up to 90% of current supply. The original intent of btc still stays the same the only thing that change is the people interacting with it.
Btc was not created for the whales only, they have the large amount today because they were early and have the funds to accumulate.
Anyone can still buy as much btc as they want as long as they can afford it.

I definitely agree with you. Even now you can accumulate and be termed a whale if you have the means to do so and I don't think that is solely based on early adoption, so pardon me if I say, someone like Elon Musk can't really be called an early adopter of Bitcoin but can be called a whale based on his hodling before the sales, however, I too believe that Bitcoin has been on it right part as to what it represents only that now there is a lot of focus on its monetary value.

kryptqnick

legendary

Activity: 3248

Merit: 1402

Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

I think the estimates like that come from the richest addresses and how much BTC they have. But assuming that each address becomes to one person, so that we come to the 2% user base, isn't fair. It's known that some of the richest addresses actually are cold wallets of exchanges. So the money there belongs to tons of people (unless you are a maximalist when it comes to 'not your keys, not your coins', and the all money on Binance for you belongs to, like, one person). Also, while the divide is probably indeed unfair and there is probably a small percentage of riches that own the majority of coins. But it doesn't mean these people act together, conspire to regulate the price. So the price isn't manipulated by whales.

Kakmakr

legendary

Activity: 3542

Merit: 1965

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: casinotester0001 on October 07, 2022, 12:56:45 PM

Quote from: CryptoHeadlineNews on October 07, 2022, 12:40:57 PM

However, thou Bitcoin transaction is transparent and can be seen by anyone on its blockchain, I doubt if it is possible to see a hierarchy of users with the highest amount of Bitcoin, as a criterion for you to have come up with this statement of yours.

by bitinfocharts

So, if you look at your chart... you will see that only 4.32% of addresses contains between 100 000 to 1 000 000 coins... but that can easily be explained. (This is highly likely that it is the cold storage of some of the largest Exchanges and/or casinos in the industry)

Now let's look at the distribution of Fiat wealth as an comparison ==> https://www.statista.com/chart/11857/the-global-pyramid-of-wealth/ (There will always be an unequal wealth distribution with capitalism in this world)

pooya87

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 10611

Quote from: Darker45 on October 07, 2022, 08:05:16 PM

If you mean it literally, then you should provide your facts. But if you don't mean it that way, which I suppose is the case, then that's just the reality.

People like OP look at sites like https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html and since they don't even know how bitcoin works they make silly conclusions like this topic.
Most of those addresses with large balances are from exchanges. For instance the biggest on right now is from Binance and it holds 252k bitcoin or 1.32% of the supply that is holding bitcoin on behalf of lots of users. On top of that a large number of addresses (about 25% according to bitinfocharts) are holding dust amounts of bitcoin which swings the percentage towards that 2% OP mentions.
Otherwise the distribution of bitcoin is actually pretty good.

cryptoaddictchie

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1379

Fully Regulated Crypto Casino

Yes some of those are probably still holding or might loss already. There are some accumulators of btc in the past and probably didnt know it got some huge value now. What if they forgot it or died already? Even there is a record of those who have big gains. Some are interested to buy those shares if ever they decided to sell it. Guaranteed many will buy a cheap one if ever the market of bitcoin crash.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4256

Merit: 8551

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: tryingtolearn on October 07, 2022, 11:56:15 AM

Price discovery is impossible with the whales controlling 90% of all bitcoins minted. The original intent of bitcoin as a neutral asset disappeared long ago. Those at the top are trying to get more users in to keep it's price (and their investment) stabilized.

Bitcoin kind of reminds me of the push for solar energy to replace engines using fossil fuels. Big marketing push by those who benefit from it's adoption even though it doesn't have the value advertised.

Two 1.5 hour videos on the subject on streaming TV interviewing early adopters and investors who have made and lost money.

Solar is great product if are south of latitude 45n

and north of latitude 45s

So your post is pretty much way off by using solar to diss BTC

Now if you want a valid argument against BTC

you could go with Franky1 LN will drag BTC down and is not the best way to help btc.

The fact that you think 90% of the coins are in the hands of whales means you do not understand just how many coins are held in exchanges.

many exchanges hold over 200000
btc that comes about 1% of of all the coins

I estimate that the top holders to low holders is not 2% holding 90% as you say but more like 2% holding 80% when you factor in btc in the exchanges as not single holders.

DapanasFruit

member

Activity: 1218

Merit: 49

Binance #Smart World Global Token

While it is true that the more people/organizations are holding and even trading Bitcoin, the better it would be for its future, we can never do a lot when it comes to ownership. Even if we are going to be giving away Bitcoin regularly, whales would still be in a better position to influence the general marketplace. Anyway, there is no restrictions for anyone to get hold of Bitcoin as this is an open market. Now, just wondering how many people in the world are owning company stocks...can we say stocks can be faring better than Bitcoin? Or about gold...for that matter?

Darker45

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1860

If you mean it literally, then you should provide your facts. But if you don't mean it that way, which I suppose is the case, then that's just the reality.

And that's probably the downside of something which doesn't have a central authority to decide on its distribution. Everybody can buy Bitcoin. Although there are jurisdictions where Bitcoin is illegal, there are definitely ways to go around such policies. The bottom line is that Bitcoin is available to whoever wants to buy it.

The sad thing is that not everybody is willing to risk on Bitcoin. There are a few wealthy individuals like Saylor and the Winklevoss twins, for example, who are so convinced of Bitcoin's future that they are keeping a huge holding and even adding more. They're certainly not to blame for believing in Bitcoin more. And for having money to buy a lot.

arcmetal

full member

Activity: 287

Merit: 159

Quote from: darkangel11 on October 07, 2022, 02:44:53 PM

Quote from: casinotester0001 on October 07, 2022, 12:56:45 PM

Quote from: CryptoHeadlineNews on October 07, 2022, 12:40:57 PM

However, thou Bitcoin transaction is transparent and can be seen by anyone on its blockchain, I doubt if it is possible to see a hierarchy of users with the highest amount of Bitcoin, as a criterion for you to have come up with this statement of yours.

https://i.ibb.co/k9ctPz9/Bitcoin-Rich-List.png

by bitinfocharts

This doesn't show users but addresses.
Some people own multiple rich addresses, some big rich addresses include multiple people (exchanges).

There's still nothing in this thread that would support OP's statement.

To take your point even further. If I look at one of my own wallets I can see around 50 or so receiving addresses, each one containing a small amount of btc, which represents a small amount of bitcoin I received from some past transaction. Therefore, my wallet alone represents about 50 data points, spread out, in that Bitcoin Rich List.

I do follow the data within the Bitcoin Rich List, just to see how bitcoin is moving about. But to form any real conclusions with what is happening with the rich list, it would require further research, and correlations with other types of bitcoin's data.

Quote from: tryingtolearn on October 07, 2022, 11:56:15 AM

Bitcoin kind of reminds me of the push for solar energy to replace engines using fossil fuels. Big marketing push by those who benefit from it's adoption even though it doesn't have the value advertised.

Taking aside, the OP's distorted views of bitcoin, this above must be one of the most nonsensical comments I have ever read on the internet.

Not understanding who can benefit from solar panels, nor understanding what is meant by "value" will produce gibberish.

Maybe the problem here is a result of having a general disgust of "decentralization":

Decentralization of power. (solar panels)

Decentralization of money. (bitcoin)

Baofeng

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1655

Quote from: tryingtolearn on October 07, 2022, 11:56:15 AM

Price discovery is impossible with the whales controlling 90% of all bitcoins minted.

Proof or this is just fake news. We even don't know how much Satoshi holds.

Quote from: tryingtolearn on October 07, 2022, 11:56:15 AM

The original intent of bitcoin as a neutral asset disappeared long ago. Those at the top are trying to get more users in to keep it's price (and their investment) stabilized.

Depends, there are still user like me who treated bitcoin as as a payment system. Although I used 3rd party services, still though I used my bitcoin this way. Or course I will agree that it has evolved as well, but it doesn't mean that it will stabilized, bitcoin still and will be a volatile asset.

Quote from: tryingtolearn on October 07, 2022, 11:56:15 AM

Bitcoin kind of reminds me of the push for solar energy to replace engines using fossil fuels. Big marketing push by those who benefit from it's adoption even though it doesn't have the value advertised.

I disagree, bitcoin is not being advertised by anyone, not even Satoshi in the beginning or the early adopters.

Quote from: tryingtolearn on October 07, 2022, 11:56:15 AM

Two 1.5 hour videos on the subject on streaming TV interviewing early adopters and investors who have made and lost money.

Too bad for, you lost 1.5 hours of your time watching those interviews when you can spend that in the forum and learn so much from the creator itself and maybe to some early adopters not willing to have interviews in TV.

NotFuzzyWarm

legendary

Activity: 3822

Merit: 2703

Evil beware: We have waffles!

Considering that over 19million have already been mined I have no doubt that yes, there are some entities that are holding or controlling vast amounts of BTC. Thing is, using terms such as "2% of user base" is meaningless without also stating what the (estimated) size of that user base is.... In other words - it is pure meaningless marketing spin speak that is worded just for shock value.

Even using a ridiculously small user base of say, 1million users, 2% of that means 20,000 users. Not exactly a small number.
Consider there are considerably more than 1 million BTC users, well... Roll Eyes

Cryptomiles1

full member

Activity: 798

Merit: 134

Did you just randomly guess the percentage or you heard from somewhere else there is a link maybe a source link were we could get to know how the percentages are being discribed more?
Well concurrently, we can just assume or randomly guess what your not sure of, here we deals with accuracy being that many individual source for data over here. So before giving out information it is best advisable to get it from a reliable source.

uneng

hero member

Activity: 2044

Merit: 784

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: Welsh on October 07, 2022, 05:04:16 PM

Quote from: uneng on October 07, 2022, 04:59:39 PM

These are bad news for bitcoin, and it is indeed a fact most bitcoins are centralized in few addresses, even though some or most of them must belong to exchanges. On the other hand, some owners of wealthy addresses might have died already, lost private keys, hardwares or simply won't move/sell their coins for ideological reasons.

So we can't say exactly how many of those bitcoins are circulating or have chances of circulating on the market.

Even if the OP's assumptions were correct, which they aren't; Bitcoin can be scaled. While we'll always have the wealthy elite as some like to describe them, it doesn't mean they have influence over you. Any moves they make in the market could have short term effects, but beyond that it doesn't really matter all that much. For example, them selling a very large amount of Bitcoin could cause a small panic among other users, resulting in more sales, and pushing the price down. Although, ultimately we'll recover from that, and the effects are only short term.

The real centralisation issue right now would be mining, which is somewhat unavoidable to an extent. By that I mean, it requires a significant amount of money to remain in profit with mining, so it's only reserved to those that have the initial funds to mine. That could potentially become a problem in the future, but I don't think it's a huge problem. As for the market share of coins, that's almost irrelevant to me personally.

It is true that on long term the influence of wealthy adopters is decreasing and I see that by the fact volatility isn't so intense on the market like it was in years ago (especially in 2018). We are in a bearish market, but the price of bitcoin hasn't been completely crashing.

I hope it continues happening, so whales drop their coins on the market and new/small investors purchase those coins, balancing the number of coins held by every adopters and consequently decreasing volatility even more.

It is a slow process, although a very promising one.

About bitcoin mining I guess you are right.

Welsh

staff

Activity: 3304

Merit: 4115

Quote from: uneng on October 07, 2022, 04:59:39 PM

These are bad news for bitcoin, and it is indeed a fact most bitcoins are centralized in few addresses, even though some or most of them must belong to exchanges. On the other hand, some owners of wealthy addresses might have died already, lost private keys, hardwares or simply won't move/sell their coins for ideological reasons.

So we can't say exactly how many of those bitcoins are circulating or have chances of circulating on the market.

Even if the OP's assumptions were correct, which they aren't; Bitcoin can be scaled. While we'll always have the wealthy elite as some like to describe them, it doesn't mean they have influence over you. Any moves they make in the market could have short term effects, but beyond that it doesn't really matter all that much. For example, them selling a very large amount of Bitcoin could cause a small panic among other users, resulting in more sales, and pushing the price down. Although, ultimately we'll recover from that, and the effects are only short term.

The real centralisation issue right now would be mining, which is somewhat unavoidable to an extent. By that I mean, it requires a significant amount of money to remain in profit with mining, so it's only reserved to those that have the initial funds to mine. That could potentially become a problem in the future, but I don't think it's a huge problem. As for the market share of coins, that's almost irrelevant to me personally.

uneng

hero member

Activity: 2044

Merit: 784

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

These are bad news for bitcoin, and it is indeed a fact most bitcoins are centralized in few addresses, even though some or most of them must belong to exchanges. On the other hand, some owners of wealthy addresses might have died already, lost private keys, hardwares or simply won't move/sell their coins for ideological reasons.

So we can't say exactly how many of those bitcoins are circulating or have chances of circulating on the market.

Welsh

staff

Activity: 3304

Merit: 4115

Ultimately, even when attempting different ideologies, the rich, and powerful are going to have a head start. There's no real way of reducing that, in terms of introducing a newer currency. That doesn't mean it's not a better system mind you.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on October 07, 2022, 12:16:54 PM

The original intent of bitcoin was to be used as a peer-to-peer electronic cash system, with no intermediaries, no suspended accounts, no chargebacks, no bailouts, no weeks of transaction confirmation, no monetary monopolies. And, adoption-wise, it's working better than ever.

Right, which is the frustrating part about threads like these ones. They fully focus on the perceived value of Bitcoin, but the real value has already been achieved. We now have a more decentralised currency, that doesn't have the typical drawbacks that you outlined above that you have with fiat currencies.

It already achieved its purpose many years ago. The effects of that, is the perceived value that everyone seems to be obsessed about. While, I do somewhat believe Bitcoin was implemented to be deflationary, and combat traditional ideas, I don't think it was it's primary objective.

Kelvinid

sr. member

Activity: 2828

Merit: 344

win lambo...

Quote from: tryingtolearn on October 07, 2022, 11:56:15 AM

Two 1.5 hour videos on the subject on streaming TV interviewing early adopters and investors who have made and lost money.

But you never think how many investors and holders are still quiet and anonymous. Well, should we have to believe that numbers? Not really.
Don't just rely upon those numbers that have been should on television, they are not accurate. Perhaps you can also analyze it, 90% of Bitcoin is owned by 2% of the user base, I'm not sure where you get that but that is definitely wrong.

You are just talking about early adopters but how about the new adopters/investors as they are even more?

cryptosize

sr. member

Activity: 1666

Merit: 310

tryingtolearn from... Varoufakis? Grin

darkangel11

legendary

Activity: 2478

Merit: 1360

Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody

Quote from: casinotester0001 on October 07, 2022, 12:56:45 PM

Quote from: CryptoHeadlineNews on October 07, 2022, 12:40:57 PM

However, thou Bitcoin transaction is transparent and can be seen by anyone on its blockchain, I doubt if it is possible to see a hierarchy of users with the highest amount of Bitcoin, as a criterion for you to have come up with this statement of yours.

https://i.ibb.co/k9ctPz9/Bitcoin-Rich-List.png

by bitinfocharts

This doesn't show users but addresses.
Some people own multiple rich addresses, some big rich addresses include multiple people (exchanges).

There's still nothing in this thread that would support OP's statement.

Hamza2424

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1042

#SWGT CERTIK Audited

Well bro thats a bitter reality as it put me into the criosity why these 72% are holding there can be many reason that put me into Doubt still i belive on BTC. It can be a ponzy scheem on some point it is store of value on some point it is what it is but BTC is our passion so lets see how seniors watch it. Is it can be thread or just a market flow because 72% WANT TO SELL but is there any buyer for those sellers.

Topic: 90% of bitcoin is owned by 2% of user base - page 2. (Read 540 times)