$90,000 in credit card fees - page 2.

nybble41

full member

Activity: 152

Merit: 100

Quote from: fornit on December 18, 2011, 02:27:46 PM

thats why bitcoin needs multi-signature transactions. you can give the politician the first key to the money and when he delivers you give him the second. Grin

How is that any different from using a single key, and withholding it until he delivers? Half a key won't help him very much if you decide to back out.

It may be possible to combine an assurance contract (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_3:_Assurance_contracts) with an M-of-N key scheme such that the payment is made when a majority of representatives agrees that the politician has delivered. That would be safer from the politician's point-of-view, while still leaving his supporters a measure of control.

Phinnaeus Gage

legendary

Activity: 1918

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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: fornit on December 18, 2011, 02:27:46 PM

thats why bitcoin needs multi-signature transactions. you can give the politician the first key to the money and when he delivers you give him the second. Grin

That, alone, brings payola to whole new level.

~.~~~~~~~~

1. Send this information to every politician in the world.
2. Wait.
3. Grin

4. Profit!

fornit

hero member

Activity: 991

Merit: 1011

thats why bitcoin needs multi-signature transactions. you can give the politician the first key to the money and when he delivers you give him the second. Grin

PrintCoins

hero member

Activity: 533

Merit: 501

Quote from: phelix on December 18, 2011, 08:43:39 AM

and once more this place gets even weirder... Undecided

Yeah... I think bitcoin attracts the fringe elements of society in all directions. If you have something to rebel against, bitcoin is for you.

I think it is even weirder when I see socialists/communists posting to this board in support of bitcoin. It is like they didn't get the memo.

---
Staying on target:

If I were to send >100K to a person for their campaign, I would probably send a check and not use a credit card.

The thing is, many of Ron Paul's donations are probably <$100 and so the percentage comes out of all of those combined as well.

If bitcoin did become a commonly accepted currency, it would become really easy to bribe politicians with it. It is the equivalent of sending an unmarked envelope full of cash, but much easier to hide the actual transaction. You wouldn't even need to do a song and dance about campaign financing and job offers to politicians after their political careers are over. Just an encrypted email with a private key to an address, some money stashed in it, and a suggestion that they should do xyz.

phelix

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Activity: 1708

Merit: 1020

Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on December 17, 2011, 03:34:20 PM

Quote from: MysteryMiner on December 17, 2011, 12:44:43 PM

Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on December 17, 2011, 11:54:40 AM

Quote from: ineededausername on December 17, 2011, 11:29:40 AM

Quote from: MysteryMiner on December 17, 2011, 11:17:41 AM

The politicans of power are not sponsored by ordinary people and credit cards. They are directed by shadowy organizations, you might call them zionists, illuminati, freemasons. The Obama is only a puppet in theyr hands.

fun fact: this guy is a nazi (and I'm entirely serious!)
who knew that Bitcoin would attract such people Tongue

Confused! Who you referring to as a Nazi? The writer of the post you quoted, or Obama? Personally, I care less, but am curious, hence the question.

~Bruno~

I'm nazi. National Socialist, to be exact.

Bitcoin attracts me because it is technological brilliant idea and it gives freedom from jewish bank systems and impending new world order. Bitcoin gives freedom. I'm also a computer hacker (in both terms of this word) and the Bitcoin is a thing that has never been seen before and the change it might bring to society is hard to imagine. It will change world more than printing press and steam engine have done.

It's actually funny that someone read my posts here and remember them

Now that that's cleared up. Personally, I don't have any qualms with you. In fact, if your were near-by, I would buy you lunch--seriously. We would possible discuss hacking together a couple 'pepper bellies', if you get my drift.

Later, MysteryMiner.

~Bruno~

and once more this place gets even weirder... Undecided

P4man

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: notme on December 18, 2011, 05:17:18 AM

Show me one country in the world where you can't bribe a government official for a favor. Oh wait, there is no baby in that tub of shit.

You can never eradicate corruption completely, or any other form of crime for that matter, that doesnt mean its a good idea to legalize either. You will have corruption in the private sector too, that doesnt mean abolishing it is the solution.
That said, good luck bribing an official in a Scandinavian country.

edit: on that note, its worth looking at this list:
http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results

The US is ranked #22. Worse than Chile. I dont see a correlation with government size though. Government is huge in Denmark, #1 on that list. Its non existant in Somalia which is ranked last. I guess Somalia is your shining example?

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

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Show me one country in the world where you can't bribe a government official for a favor. Oh wait, there is no baby in that tub of shit.

P4man

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: evoorhees on December 17, 2011, 05:44:49 PM

Would you like to rethink that a bit? Roll Eyes

No, not really. Show me one prosperous country in world's history that functioned without government. You will always need government on some level, and legally allowing that government, no matter how small, to be bought is dead stupid. You dont allow corruption and bribes in a company executive either, or do you? You dont advocate shrinking the company or every executives' power as solution, or do you? Allowing bribes in government is fascism or feudalism instead of democracy.

I understand people's hate of government, particularly those that live in the states, but wanting to abolish all forms of government as 'solution' for a corrupt system that is clearly not working in the people's interest is throwing away the baby with the bath water.

ineededausername

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1000

bitcoin hundred-aire

Quote from: evoorhees on December 17, 2011, 04:16:59 PM

The problem is not that people or corporations (which are just groups of people) can donate unlimited amounts to politicians.

The problem is that politicians can hand out favors, and that ability grows in direct proportion with the size and scope of government.

Shrink the government, and the number of favors to be dolled out is necessarily reduced. In the "money buying power" problem, it is not the money, but the power.

Now the problem is shrinking the government. How do we overcome entrenched special interests who obviously don't want to shrink the government? The current revolving-door system is largely static and I see no real change on the horizon, unfortunately.

JohnOliver

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: cbeast on December 17, 2011, 03:58:30 PM

In the case of super PACs, unlimited donations only require the identity of the donor.

Ostensibly, yes. But for all intents and purposes it's anonymous, since it's trivial to form and dissolve super PACs, and there's no requirement to maintain the donor list when the super PAC is dissolved.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_08/taking_secret_donations_to_far031304.php

evoorhees

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1023

Democracy is the original 51% attack

Quote from: P4man on December 17, 2011, 05:14:13 PM

No matter how much you shrink government, they will always have considerable power over things like taxes, infrastructure, etc.

Would you like to rethink that a bit? Roll Eyes

gnar1ta$

donator

Activity: 798

Merit: 500

Quote from: evoorhees on December 17, 2011, 04:16:59 PM

The problem is not that people or corporations (which are just groups of people) can donate unlimited amounts to politicians.

The problem is that politicians can hand out favors, and that ability grows in direct proportion with the size and scope of government.

Shrink the government, and the number of favors to be dolled out is necessarily reduced. In the "money buying power" problem, it is not the money, but the power.

+1 Well said, as usual. But good luck convincing the masses...as you see.

P4man

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: evoorhees on December 17, 2011, 04:16:59 PM

The problem is not that people or corporations (which are just groups of people) can donate unlimited amounts to politicians.

The problem is that politicians can hand out favors, and that ability grows in direct proportion with the size and scope of government.

Shrink the government, and the number of favors to be dolled out is necessarily reduced. In the "money buying power" problem, it is not the money, but the power.

No offense, but thats just plain idiotic. No matter how much you shrink government, they will always have considerable power over things like taxes, infrastructure, etc. Even if they dont, they always have the power to take more power since they can create legislation. The problem *is* legalized bribery, and the solution is simple enough.

evoorhees

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1023

Democracy is the original 51% attack

The problem is not that people or corporations (which are just groups of people) can donate unlimited amounts to politicians.

The problem is that politicians can hand out favors, and that ability grows in direct proportion with the size and scope of government.

Shrink the government, and the number of favors to be dolled out is necessarily reduced. In the "money buying power" problem, it is not the money, but the power.

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on December 17, 2011, 03:50:44 PM

Quote from: P4man on December 17, 2011, 05:23:39 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin 100 on December 17, 2011, 04:03:38 AM

Payola is not confined to just the US.

The sheer scale of it among functional democracies is uniquely American though, at least AFAIK everywhere else corporate donations are severely restricted and/or requiring full disclosure. Political parties receive the majority of their funds from public means and individuals, and even if they were allowed, accepting significant corporate bribes would cost them dearly in elections. Where I live political parties receive finance in function of their electorate, so they get paid for votes, not the other way around with corporations or financial elite buying votes.

Where do you get the idea corporations can donate unlimited funds to US politicians? The per person/entity limit applies to corporations also.

In the case of super PACs, unlimited donations only require the identity of the donor. The Citizens United ruling lifted the spending limits for corporations. While they don't contribute directly to the politician, they can be used to do the politician's bidding.

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Quote from: P4man on December 17, 2011, 05:23:39 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin 100 on December 17, 2011, 04:03:38 AM

Payola is not confined to just the US.

The sheer scale of it among functional democracies is uniquely American though, at least AFAIK everywhere else corporate donations are severely restricted and/or requiring full disclosure. Political parties receive the majority of their funds from public means and individuals, and even if they were allowed, accepting significant corporate bribes would cost them dearly in elections. Where I live political parties receive finance in function of their electorate, so they get paid for votes, not the other way around with corporations or financial elite buying votes.

Where do you get the idea corporations can donate unlimited funds to US politicians? The per person/entity limit applies to corporations also.

Phinnaeus Gage

legendary

Activity: 1918

Merit: 1570

Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: MysteryMiner on December 17, 2011, 12:44:43 PM

Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on December 17, 2011, 11:54:40 AM

Quote from: ineededausername on December 17, 2011, 11:29:40 AM

Quote from: MysteryMiner on December 17, 2011, 11:17:41 AM

The politicans of power are not sponsored by ordinary people and credit cards. They are directed by shadowy organizations, you might call them zionists, illuminati, freemasons. The Obama is only a puppet in theyr hands.

fun fact: this guy is a nazi (and I'm entirely serious!)
who knew that Bitcoin would attract such people Tongue

Confused! Who you referring to as a Nazi? The writer of the post you quoted, or Obama? Personally, I care less, but am curious, hence the question.

~Bruno~

I'm nazi. National Socialist, to be exact.

Bitcoin attracts me because it is technological brilliant idea and it gives freedom from jewish bank systems and impending new world order. Bitcoin gives freedom. I'm also a computer hacker (in both terms of this word) and the Bitcoin is a thing that has never been seen before and the change it might bring to society is hard to imagine. It will change world more than printing press and steam engine have done.

It's actually funny that someone read my posts here and remember them

Now that that's cleared up. Personally, I don't have any qualms with you. In fact, if your were near-by, I would buy you lunch--seriously. We would possible discuss hacking together a couple 'pepper bellies', if you get my drift.

Later, MysteryMiner.

~Bruno~

MysteryMiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1049

Death to enemies!

Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on December 17, 2011, 11:54:40 AM

Quote from: ineededausername on December 17, 2011, 11:29:40 AM

Quote from: MysteryMiner on December 17, 2011, 11:17:41 AM

The politicans of power are not sponsored by ordinary people and credit cards. They are directed by shadowy organizations, you might call them zionists, illuminati, freemasons. The Obama is only a puppet in theyr hands.

fun fact: this guy is a nazi (and I'm entirely serious!)
who knew that Bitcoin would attract such people Tongue

Confused! Who you referring to as a Nazi? The writer of the post you quoted, or Obama? Personally, I care less, but am curious, hence the question.

~Bruno~

I'm nazi. National Socialist, to be exact.

Bitcoin attracts me because it is technological brilliant idea and it gives freedom from jewish bank systems and impending new world order. Bitcoin gives freedom. I'm also a computer hacker (in both terms of this word) and the Bitcoin is a thing that has never been seen before and the change it might bring to society is hard to imagine. It will change world more than printing press and steam engine have done.

It's actually funny that someone read my posts here and remember them

molecular

donator

Activity: 2772

Merit: 1019

Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on December 17, 2011, 11:54:40 AM

Quote from: ineededausername on December 17, 2011, 11:29:40 AM

Quote from: MysteryMiner on December 17, 2011, 11:17:41 AM

The politicans of power are not sponsored by ordinary people and credit cards. They are directed by shadowy organizations, you might call them zionists, illuminati, freemasons. The Obama is only a puppet in theyr hands.

fun fact: this guy is a nazi (and I'm entirely serious!)
who knew that Bitcoin would attract such people Tongue

Confused! Who you referring to as a Nazi? The writer of the post you quoted, or Obama? Personally, I care less, but am curious, hence the question.

~Bruno~

+1

and how does bitcoin come in? who did bitcoin attract?

Phinnaeus Gage

legendary

Activity: 1918

Merit: 1570

Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: ineededausername on December 17, 2011, 11:29:40 AM

Quote from: MysteryMiner on December 17, 2011, 11:17:41 AM

The politicans of power are not sponsored by ordinary people and credit cards. They are directed by shadowy organizations, you might call them zionists, illuminati, freemasons. The Obama is only a puppet in theyr hands.

fun fact: this guy is a nazi (and I'm entirely serious!)
who knew that Bitcoin would attract such people Tongue

Confused! Who you referring to as a Nazi? The writer of the post you quoted, or Obama? Personally, I care less, but am curious, hence the question.

~Bruno~

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