Topic: 9/11 derail: rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;) - page 2. (Read 6230 times)

In the first reports I heard on the radio an eyewitness said a DC3 flew into the first tower.

It's About Sharing, the construction of the towers was unlike anything that had ever been built.  They did survive the impacts of the plane which most buildings would not have.  The way the floors were attached to the uprights was such that once the first floors lost the integrity of their attachments due to the heat, physical damage and added weight of the plane, the weight/ momentum of those floors caused the failure of the floors below in rapid succession.  Again the construction of the towers was unique.  The second tower that was hit came down first because of the way the plane hit it which caused more physical damage to the structure.  That damage was obvious to see.

But you know all this.

Ok, case solved, the janitor has the proof. I'm out...

Given the latest media manipulation of Gaza and Ukraine, don't you think this is not the first time? Whatever the truth is behind 9/11 only the perpetrators themselves will know. but one thing is certain you have to go beyond the mainstream official lie to find some semblance of the truth.

Legit. Over the summer is the only chance most people get to stop their wageslave lifestyles and actually have some extra time to "check stuff out" with a peace of mind. Some may be finding out about BTC and researching on it.

As for 9/11, there are good arguments to support the official version and there are good arguments to suport the unofficial version (inside job).

I remain undecided.

The fire wasn't hot, there were people standing around up there. Clearly things were cooling off. I think we are all aware that there were other materials burning but again, that was not a hot fire.
Steel transmits heat. The fires were cooling off as well as the heat being dissipated. I am not sure how you can argue basic physics.



So, the top of the WTC's was heavy enough to flatten the entire building? And it did so in such extreme fashion that the concrete was pulverized? Explain to me how the upper portion of the building had enough energy to flatten the rest and WHILE it was falling over. Explain why all of the computer simulations couldn't duplicate what happened that day. Explain how a building falls at free fall speed? Wouldn't all the steel and concrete slow things down? You are simplifying things. The Spain fire was apparently a hotter burning fire.

Regarding the base of the building. You are aware that the lobby was blown out? Even the Janitor stated it looked like a bomb had gone off down there and it certainly wasn'T from the jet fuel that burned off above. He further stated bombs were going off in the basement before the first plane hit.


I bolded in red the parts you skipped over.

I remember when closely watching one of the WTC's collapse on video, that around a second before it started to implode, the top part (above the impact) was tilting over. Now, it seems to me that the least resistance is not straight down, but off to one side. This is especially so considering that the top part was leaning over. But it suddenly preceded to go straight down (yes, after the weight was shifting to one side.)

Regarding temperatures and steel weakening. A few points - The steel like lattice structure acted like a heat sink, after all, it is a bunch of inter-connected steel. Couple that with the fire never appeared to get very hot. There was black smoke after the initial explosion. Black smoke means not a hot burning fire but rather one that needs oxygen. To further prove this lower heat theory, there were multiple people standing in the openings waving for help, before the building was detonated/thermited by the criminals in question.

If anyone is interested (snippet):
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/windsor.html
That building was mangled but never came down.

Many have stated that the towers would have needed to have been closed down or the like for explosives/thermite to have been planted. Looks like there is ample evidence for that. Snippet
http://truthandshadows.wordpress.com/2010/10/26/trade-center-cameras-locks-electricity-turned-off-weekend-before-911/

Oh look a thread started by me that wasn't started by me.  I wonder who did it?

Well I have been in both the medical and aviation fields. 

I was driving into Manhattan at the time when the planes hit the Twin Towers so I experienced it in real time even if from a few miles away.

Explanation is simple. You are either a intentionally deceiving people or are intellectually not equipped to have this discussion.

Google jet fuel open air burning temperature. You will get the numbers from above: 2230 C in an engine, 1030 C in open air. Nobody told me what this was, I had to research it.
http://webserver.dmt.upm.es/~isidoro/dat1/eCombus.pdf


Steel is fully ductile (it can be shaped by rollers) at 1050 C, but it begins to soften at around 700 C. Also at 1200+ C it may be fully liquid. You don't need steel to be liquid to collapse a scaffolding structure, it has to be bend under weight enough, which happens at 700C. You build a steel support that needs to hold for example 1Kg. So you design it so it can hold 2Kg without issues. If you design it for 10Kg, then you use 10x more material for no additional results, it is simple economical reason to use sufficient while not being wasteful. So what happens to your little 2Kg capable support when it heats up to 800C? It can only hold 0.5Kg before it bends onto itself. It doesn't need to melt, have you ever worked with metals before?


Conclusion: Kerosene can burn at much more than 350 C and you state this number as the possible maximum. Steel will start losing it's integrity well below it's melting point but you choose it's melting point of 1500 C as minumum. You are deceiving yourself and others.

Did burning fuel melt steel in WTC? I don't know, I don't think so, it doesn't matter. But I don't go around telling people lies. Do your research before throwing stupid numbers around.

Bonus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne7W8UPdOro

Seems like the 9/11 debate could be steering us off btc discussions somewhat..

I think/feel that anyone involved in BTC probably has had the fleeting thought that it was started by an agency. I think that, at this point, it really doesn't matter. Unless they get a new world war, I don't see these criminals being able to control where things are going.

Further, they appear to be losing more and more support. What Adam mentioned before regarding perception coming into being, along with consciuosness, is basically beyond "their" control. And if BTC is Trojan Horse, what the heck is perception and consciuosness to tptb? They/we are being hit by a multitude of forces and factors right now. We have a great chance...

Its about sharing

Ok steel melts at 1k degrees, but have you read what I wrote? Let me repeat: Kerosene's open air burning temperature is 350 degrees. Please explain how does it melt the 1k degrees steel.

Fair enough, there is no conspiracy hence theory where there is proofs (helloo 911), and there is theory hence conspiracy where there is lack of proofs (helloo Manmade Golbal Warming..). It's just lying and hiding.

but cant you also imagine BTC being on top of that cherry?

edit: I mean, the Intelligencia, the Deep State, monitoring it all.  

Nice post Carlton. Interesting that the governments story from the get go was a quite extreme conspiracy theory. Anyone who questions the governments story (or not) and wants a laugh, please take a couple of minutes and laugh your ass off at what James Corbett put together regarding 911. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98

And not shockingly, it was the CIA who pushed the use of "conspiracy theory" forward due to all the criticisms they were receiving starting with and then following the warren report. You just can't make this stuff up. CIA Document #1035-960 http://www.realhistoryarchives.com/collections/assassinations/jfk/cia-inst.htm

More in tune with this thread, we have a war on drugs, a war on terror, but how about a war on corruption? Funny, the latter will end the formers. Thanks BTC 

Its about sharing

Yes, for now technology is merged on the human body externally with gadgets - later on it will be implanted as it becomes convenient. However the gadgets today do not yet provide intelligence acceleration, in the sense of AI. They do provide "conveniences" though, with a major drawback: As the human mind "accepts" the conveniences offered, it admits its own inadequacy in performing the same tasks.

Two decades ago we would remember a whole list of phone numbers. We would be able to recall a big amount of information. Memorizing text or data was an internal task. Not to mention doing basic arithmetic with our minds. As we progress, these "abilities" are outsourced and the mental capacities associated to them are weakened as a result.

The major problem of techno-human hybridization or transhumanism is that it leads to centralized control of the human species due to the interconnectedness of human brains, plus we will have a two-tier transhuman race, in which those with the best technology (=the Elite who control the tech) will be advantaged over the rest or give the rest a set of tech that can be manipulated with the right "keys".

Another problem is that the risk is too big in terms of an EMP-wave civilization collapse. A generation raised with implants will lose all the natural mental capacities that are now "standard". An EMP from a solar blast can render the transhuman species concept as DOA in terms of survival capacity in adverse circumstances.


Yes it is. Small numbers at first but gradually rising. The whole population will attain God-man capability in the next ~50-55 years, rendering bio/machine integration / transhumanism obsolete.

the diversity of worldviews attracted to a common thread is breathtaking

Oh MY!  NOW religion is coming into this in order to justify good versus bad?

The cyborg is already here, we carry things with us, which are always on and through which we can reach every human on the planet and access all information produced in the history of mankind, in any language, it will be translated for us, and they have numerous physical world capabilities as well, and cost only $100...

The God-man is also manifested in an increasing way: remember in the Revelation, the Spirit of God is called Seven Spirits, because it has been magnified sevenfold for the consummation of the age (which is certainly in need of consummation in the next ~20 years, because the serpent has grown to be the Great Dragon, called the Devil and Satan, and is the deceiver of all mankind quite literally these days).

Everything has been explained www.cluesforum.info

Take your time, and it takes a lot of time, to assimilate the information. There is no winning or losing arguments. The beauty about cluesforum is that it may have started as a 911 project, but it goes far beyond just 911. You will be thankful, I guarantee you that.

The most common initial reaction to cluesforum is dismissal due to years of having being conditioned (throughout one's lifetime). It takes time to come out of it and then the acceptance phase.

Still, it does fall into the pattern of what I described earlier regarding boldness and autonomous thinking because there is a certain alignment of people with anti-fiat investments, like precious metals for example. The anti-fiat people created a new "box" for group-think in the form of precious metals investments and it requires additional perceptual fluidity to step out of that box for a while to even investigate bitcoin and cryptocurrencies - not necessarily as a gold/silver killer, but as a supplementary investment or a hedge to their paper manipulation. After all, the marketcap of the cryptomarket is too small to drain even 0.1% of the marketcap of PMs.

Paradoxically, the above step was not so necessary for those who went from fiat -> bitcoin directly as an opportunity to make more fiat - because these people were interested in fiat and only saw bitcoin as the intermediate step that could bring them more fiat. So a lot of fiat people are exhibiting a better fluidity towards Bitcoin compared to anti-fiat people who are heavily invested into PMs and refuse to diversify.

It's not enough to make a new (or several) worldview(s) that challenges the old worldview. It requires perceptual fluidity and honest self-examination of one's cognitive biases. When an old belief or worldview, mainstream or alternative, proves to be a hindrance, it needs to be modified ASAP.