Topic: A breakthrough in thermonuclear fusion technology! End of the era of hydrocarbon - page 2. (Read 645 times)

Yeah last time I checked nature is still giving us free energy from solar, wind and water however humans have not implemented the perfect solution to use them 100%.
So what we have done is, we are trying to create mini sun on the earth itself so that we can power everything in the long with small energy pockets installed everywhere.
I am amazed they were not exploring the ways of harnessing suns energy rather they went behind creating the entire sun on the earth.

I learnt from my last post that people are always agreeing to disagreements, so I’m also going to do same with this topic. I don’t think it’s breakthrough.

Announcements of "breakthrough" in nuclear fusion happen all the time, and generally nothing comes out of it. This one seems to be more concrete, but I doubt that we'll start building fusion reactors tomorrow, it might still be decades until the first profitable reactor will be launched.

To me the most remarkable thing about nuclear fusion is not how clean it is (I believe fission is also sufficiently clean), but how cheap and abundant can it be. Perhaps if this technology can be mass scaled, we will enter a new technological era.

In the spring of 2022, I read Yaroslav Gzhendovich's novel "Helium - 3".  It described our immediate future. 

According to the author, in place of Russia there will be a new state called New Soviets.  Putin II will be the general secretary there.  Europe will turn into a totalitarian state, concerned about environmental problems.  China will control the technological development of the planet. 

As for oil and gas, according to Yaroslav Gzhendovich, they will lose their significance due to the popularization of thermonuclear fusion technologies.  Cars with an internal combustion engine will only be used in poor countries in Africa and Asia. 

At the same time, it is the Arab oil-producing countries that will suffer the most from the new energy crisis.

Absolutely agree ! The only thing I will add is that oil and gas will lose their status as critical fossil fuels, and will most likely be used on a residual basis or only where the technological process cannot be replaced. For example, the production of plastics. Although in the presence of almost unlimited and very cheap energy, I do not exclude the emergence of completely new technologies that will replace today's ones in the same area of plastics production, or they will be replaced by completely different materials. It's called progress

Progress in the field of thermonuclear fusion is inevitable.  

Developments in this area have been underway since the 1960s.  At the same time, an adventurous policy in the field of hydrocarbon trade (on the part of oil and gas exporting countries) can significantly bring the moment of introducing this technology closer.  

At the same time, in my opinion, the process of abandoning hydrocarbon fuel will be gradual.  In the past, oil and gas have replaced coal as fuel.  However, coal is still used as a fuel.  

Therefore, in the future, oil and gas will continue to be used as a fuel and as a raw material for the chemical industry.

its grant grab season.. the bidding war begins. those who can prove fusion first get the golden grants of government money. those who delay get the left overs or nothing

Nuclear energy in general is the best midterm solution to environmental issues for many countries. If a country can meet its need for electricity by using solar/wind/geothermal sources, that's fantastic, but in many climates it's not possible. Nuclear energy is more stable, it can help increase energy production, and it's still much better than burning coal or using gas.
Nuclear fusion is supposed to be much more efficient, and it would be great to finally crack it. Hopefully, this initial experiment will lead to further research and practical implementations. It should take years to ensure it's safe, but I think we'll get there.

No as Long as BTC continues on its current course it only gives out 21,000,000 coins.

By 2056 the reward is down to 0.0122xxxx btc.

But the really interesting coin will be Doge.

Doge reward never changes it is x coins per year with no 1/2ing

so
year 1         1x
year 2         2x wow 100% inflation
.
.
.
year 10      10 x
year 11      11 x     down to 10% inflation
.
.
.
year 20      20x
year 21      21x     down to 5% inflation
.
.
.
year 50      50x
year 51      51x      only 2% inflation
.
.
.
year 100 100x
year 101 101x    just 1% inflation


So a long development time for fusion to work favors Doge bigly as it won't run out of mining.

And Musk will be around long enough to reap big iron cash  whatever from this. he is 51 give him 30 years he is 81 and BTC will have a serious rewards issue.  while Doge will just keep on trucking with fusion power.

You're confusing fission with fusion. They're two very different things (almost opposites).

Fission produces toxic waste because the way it's produced in the US and UK leaves it with toxic waste. Repeated reactions are possible and done in other countries which greatly reduces the amount of nuclear waste there is.

Fossil fuels aren't here to stay. They either keep being used and countries go chasing after the money they lose from the effects of global climate change or countries switch to greener solutions. Energy storage is a thing and a lot of renewable sources are available together (so if wind production is low, solar works).

Fossil might have been here to stay when it was cheaper than renewables, now it's 4x the price!

Fossil fuel lobby has been really strong and they have really been doing their best for the last few centuries to ensure that alternative energy sources do not appear and are not used by mankind. Therefore, scientists who invented something new or were close to solving it disappeared or died for unknown reasons, or inventions were bought by someone and their developments disappeared. But now is a different time. There are only a few decades left of fossil fuels on Earth, everyone understands that it will end soon. Therefore, states are actively looking for and finding a replacement for them. Such a study itself and its positive results were not previously possible. But now there is a question of the survival of mankind due to global climate change. Here, corporate interests will no longer work.

After reading this news, I remembered one of Vanga's prophecies. She said that soon we will have several artificial suns that will evenly illuminate the Earth throughout the day. It will be a ball with a shell about six meters in diameter, inside which the same reaction will take place as in the sun. True, Vanga then predicted a catastrophe when two such artificial suns collided in the sky. But anyway, this suggests that such an invention is quite possible and it will be soon.

1. If you carefully read the full announcement - it is indicated that the total energy spent on holding a stable plasma to obtain an energy output was less received as a result of the process. Gain/cost ratio - 120%
Yes, the energy spent on the initial start-up is not taken into account, but I am sure that with such an indicator of efficiency, the influence of "start-up" costs will tend to 0 in proportion to the operating time of the installation.

2. Thorium, against the background of controlled thermonuclear fusion, has disadvantages:
- It's hard to get. It is very diffusely distributed on Earth. Although it is estimated to be more in total than the same uranium.
- It is much more difficult and expensive to extract from the rock, due to its scattered distribution.
- Thorium is not safe, although less dangerous than plutonium/uranium. The presence of thorium aerosols is thought to increase the risk of lung, pancreatic, and blood cancers.
- The technology has not been brought to industrial widespread use either. But there are working experimental ones, for example, in the 1960s, the thorium reactor LFTR Molten-Salt Reactor Experiment was built in the USA.

I don't think so. They are probably lying/bluffing so Russia and Saudis panic and sell their oil for a cheaper price. They won't fall for this trick if they are smart. Oil/Gas will be around even long after this current generation dies. It simply is the best and most practical source of energy. The problem is, the west have don't have them enough and well... nobody cares.

Fusion energy will not be able to completely replace fossil energy at any time, because fusion energy also comes from limited resources, namely uranium and plutonium and these are very limited and very toxic resources compared to fossil energy. What researchers are currently doing is only developing renewable energy which will reduce the use of fossil energy, not replace it, because it will not be possible to replace fossil energy in the future because there will be more problems that arise such as economic and political problems.

https://rentar.com/impossible-replace-fossil-fuels-alternative-fuel-sources/

And actually fossil energy is not too bad, indeed the effect of the carbon dioxide it produces causes global warming but in my opinion this problem in the next few years will be resolved with CO2 capture devices which have been developed by companies like CleanO2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JaN6kT_zRI

It's true that the development of this energy fusion is very good and I'm very amazed at it because in the future we will feel life like in Iron Man, but that doesn't need to be exaggerated because what is exaggerated is not good and also we shouldn't be distracted by problems safety of this fusion energy. Indeed they claim that this is safe and secure energy, but this has not been proven in commercialization.

the laser cost is the answer to your first question about starting the reaction.

to me i see that question and answer of the experiment equivelent to saying
"a match was struck which caused a bonfire of flames. exponential heat everyone exponential heat.. "

questions i have
yes they managed to produce more energy than the lasers.
but how much outside the building cost/energy was used to produce the pellet that was burned

EG fire is free. once you strike a single match you can then produce a flame as big as a bonfire or even a forest fire.. that can maintain more energy than the initial match and far longer than the initial match burns(until it reached your finger)

but its less about the energy creation exponential of the match vs bonfire.. its about the burning of material cost to make that also needs to be added
much like burning wood in a home fire place is not about the energy from a match exponentialised into a fire. and more about the wood cost to get that exponential amount of flame

where the cost of the wood is not free
...
also in a similar topic asking about the time scales of going from lab to commercial release..
it is indeed at stage three-four. and yes it is "grant finding season"


the power wattage emitted was indeed more then the power input.
which for a small capsule the size of a petit-pois pea emitted enough energy in less than a nanosecond than the entire energy grid of america.. if you calculate the american grid energy divided down to same under nano second per watt scale

however to continuously feed this once every 60 seconds at scale to offer AC power for the grid. requires more capsules and maintaining the charge and discharge

which is where they are now at the efficiency test stage of prolonging the charge-discharge time to scale up to wattage per hour instead of sub-nanosecond
the 2.1mj to 3mj equates to
583.3w to 875w per XX pico second

and also scaling down the physical size of the building surrounding the the engine. so that it can be used upon submarines or built in small towns/cities
aswell as cost control and quality control of the capsules burned(the hydrogen equivalent of firewood

My opinion is that it will be more than one year, maybe even a decade(s), before nuclear fusion becomes more or less usable in everyday life. And we should not hope that all the oil and gas tycoons will just give up in this struggle. The only thing I can say is that I am sure that someday we will use the clean energy of nuclear fusion for our own purposes.

There is an assumption that shareware energy can nullify the cost of cryptocurrencies with the concept of PoW, because. a significant part of their "cost" is formed precisely by the cost of energy for mining.
No, I'm not saying that the cost of PoW will go to zero, but the price will drop. Imagine - you actually have unlimited energy, you can build a farm as high as the moon, and mine a huge amount of coins! What happens when the production of a certain product increases, with a constant demand in the market? That's right - price drop ...
But it's still far from that, unfortunately

Always look for the information that's NOT provided.

First off.   We have been able to do fusion for quite a long time.   The problem is pretty much this...  Controlled fusion that produces more power then you spent.  Without blowing yourself up or burning the building down.


They have Not achieved that in my estimation.

And Why might you ask I say this.   Due to the Information that WAS NOT included in the announcement.   And its Very very important information.



Question that were Not answered....    or even posed. 

How Much Power did it take to Start the Reaction ...... The only information provided here was the laser power.   But what about CONTAINMENT!?  You need a whopping magnetic field to Hold the reaction that takes a ton of power as well as the lasers to start the reaction/

Secondly.  Just as Important.    How Long Were you Able to maintain the reaction before containment field failure?  See Problem 2 with fusion is containment.   Super hot Plasma from fusion reactions is Crazy strong And highly Unpredictable.   Field failure is usually measured in billionths of a second. 

So what I see here is ....   ITS GRANT TIME! news cycle.

More then willing to change my OP But Tracking the silence is as important as the noise. 


I still say with current tech Thorium reactors is the future.

Just remember one thing..... The Oil / Coal / Gas giants have invested their profits into many other industries too, they will most probably invest their money into "new" technologies like this and continue making massive profits.

Abu Dhabi was formerly an undeveloped town of only local importance, but the emirate’s oil revenues enabled it to evolve into a modern city with a fully developed infrastructure. (Real Estate and Property Investments / Investing in Funds, Stocks, and Shares of other large companies)  

You are asking a bunch of non-experts for opinions and forecasts about a high tech/scientific topic.
I'm not an expert in nuclear power plants and physics. What kind of opinions do you want? Most of the people would say "Yeah, that's great, but it will be implemented after 20-30-40 years or more." I remember reading about thermonuclear technological breakthrough in Russia years ago. Does Russia have thermonuclear reactors right now? Nope and they won't have such reactors even after 10 years.
The fossil fuel lobby and the green energy lobby would be very upset by such news and they will do everything they can to prevent such thermonuclear projects from achieving massive success.

for the science people wondering "how does it work"

first concept is to realise at the sub atomic level there is no substance. there are just frequency waves which enough waves combined at certain frequency do certain things.

from electric. to sound to light to xray
(the electro magnetic spectrum)

where certain frequencies resists/reflects other frequency and other frequencies combine or attract together. which is magnetism spectrum.. is what we feel as substance. others interfere(change frequency)and others are light frequency is the colour or ability to see it. and so on

an atom is filled with many(more then trillions) different frequencies to cause it to be felt and seen they emit these frequency waves. which with enough at certain frequencies become things like 'photons' (light energy) or sound or are attracted together in large(for nanoscale) to become substance

the process is to send enough waves from light-xray spectrum frequency which then breaks the hydrogen(bunch of frequency waves) magnetic repulsion range of frequencies, and changing the frequency to the magnetic attraction(compress/implode), which attracts and then reacts changing the waves that then represent helium +excess waves of lower frequency at the frequency useful for "energy"

this excess waves of lower frequency(heat energy) which then warms up water that is then sent to a turbine as steam to power a generator
 
they were able to do this where the amount of energy needed to cause the light-xray input.. caused an output of more waves of energy than were used to create the laser

dumbing it down...

2 grannies shouting caused 3 kids to scream. it caused more sound
(where sound represent waves.. but not at the sound spectrum/frequency)

media was reporting a (rounded) 2mj input gave a upto 3mj output
i first thought that was only 600watt in 800watt out

but that was at a faster then microsecond scale meaning, converted to a watts per hour. would be a huge number