Topic: "A Buck an Address" (Read 1634 times)

...

I just spent some BTC today on platinum.  What fee did I pay?  Very close to $1.00 per address.  I had a lot of small balances in my 10 output wallets.

I think yesterday or the day before the typical fees were higher.  While browsing a block, I saw a couple of small trx (225 - 400 bytes) with $20.00 fees, and in some cases those were low $-value trx.

It's a new world, at least for now.  I am now HODLing the rest of my BTC, I note (frown) that BTC is up some $60 since I spent it earlier...

How much of a transaction fee do you pay buying/selling a house?

How much of a fee for selling/buying gold?

With bitcoin, if you sell your bitcoin you EARN a fee for selling in the market (through p2p exchanges or marketplaces)

The difference is that there are no fees involved in using a visa (well a little bit for the merchant, but none for the consumer), where Bitcoin is slow; and the fees that it charges could double the price of your coffee.

Ha-ha I like the humor in that, the answer is when they figure out how to use Bitcoin and the engines behind it.
Until then we will just debate until the issue is solved.

No, the benefit of decentralisation is that there are no trusted third parties in the first place. Decentralisation almost always increases costs, and there is no reason to expect Bitcoin to be any different. Personally, I'm amazed it's so cheap; that's probably just due to lack of mainstream adoption.

They are possible whether I want them to be or not; you just have to pay the fees. (They're especially possible if, like most people in international finance, you think "small" means "under a million dollars". The only people who pay for coffee via international wire transfer are those importing it by the tonne.)

Exactlly. Globally precious if you see the increasing trades in Philippines, Spain, Japan, Russia, USA, India, Brazil, Nigeria, UK.





Let's see, $100USD minerfee to send any amount of Bitcoin when Bitcoin is valued above $30,000USD/BTC.

Sending 0.0166BTC: Hmm, so if you need to liquidate & send $500USD across world fast using your holding of this precious financial asset when its valued at $30,000 an alternative would be to:
Sell to any 3rd party the 0.0166BTC to get +$500
3rd party pays you PREMIUM 3% to get BTC asset: +$15
Assuming traditional banks still exist and in this time wire fee (only) doubled, transmit wire $500 and fee: ($500)+ ($60) = ($560)
Net Fee using alternative1: ($560) + $500 + $15 = ($45) fee paid
This will save you $55 vs paying the ($100)miner fee

Localbitcoins premiums for cash deposits have been cheaper in USA where consistently between 3-7% premium past 3 years. Future should bring efficiency so only 3% used. Though we are probably 25 years out from a $30,000 BTC price and $100 txn fees.

But we all are observing, increasingly so, since 2013 and every year through today, more and more of some of the smartest in Philippines, Spain, Japan, Russia, USA, India, Brazil, Nigeria, UK are trading to hold Bitcoin. No precious financial asset is as widely distributed and as easily accessible to offer such explosive returns due to its superior ability to hedge global monetary inflation. Bitcoin is not only store of value, but is the check and balance to the world's central banks.

So far the mainstream media is not saying anything about this. When do we get our free advertising?

Supply side economics - the more people using the network the lower the fees will become as more entrants to the mining game will force costs down. Adoption will eventually decrease price.

I dont think it is the coffee drinker that are complaining. The problem is more a of a concern to people that have bitcoin heavily incorporated into their business model.  They may be losing customers and profits.

Ripple is the so called international wire payment.
Right now demand(people)is pulling but miners are pulling the opposite direction so hard that when people let go and stop pulling I'm afraid miners are going to hit the ground.
Bitcoin is not yet ready to ignore the majority of it's user base which are medium class people with their microtransactions, we're not yet in the area of putting aside fiat and directly deal with BTC.

Many are trading on daily basis and many depend on their microtransactions, if you have no small buyers then as a big seller you are as good as dead in business.
You think Apple earned tens of billions by just producing 1 million giant sized cell phones or by depending on tens of million individuals to buy their phones?

If Bitcoin is "too big" for coffee, I wonder how people feel about paying for a coffee with a card. If we look at it, maybe Visa is a bit overkill for coffee too

Jesus, you're a Legend and you haven't even read the introduction of the whitepaper?
A huge part of the benefit of decentralisation should be that it reduces the cost of finding trusted third parties.  That's clearly also a huge part of satoshi's intention and these "small casual transactions" should be possible whether you want them to be or not.

It was also very hard to foresee what would develop as Bitcoin grew bigger. I get the feeling that mining pools were completely unexpected for example.

Regardless of that the current situation is completely artificial and preventable. However it should've been prevented in 2010 with a scaling solution that looked to the future. There were dissenting voices about 1mb the moment it was introduced saying it would be incredibly hard to change in the future. How right they were.

But according to https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ "the fastest and cheapest transaction fee is currently 360 satoshis/byte". In my opinion even that fee is too high to accept if you want to transfer around $20. But you are talking about fees 2 times higher than I've mentioned.

So my question is why do people pay such big fees if ~ 360 satoshis/byte would be enough for a fast transaction?

I'm not an expert so I won't be able to suitably reference but as a newbie as late as September last year, I recall often coming across its potential or design use as a possible micropayment alternative. And just because it wasn't explicitly mentioned in the whitepaper or by Satoshi (I'm assuming it isn't) doesn't mean it shouldn't and couldn't have been. Speaking of the whitepaper, on page 1 already it mentions "small casual transactions" and a coffee for me is a perfect example of that. A small casual transaction.

The division of bitcoin into 100 million units (and further sub-satoshi division possible even I understand should LN be implemented) seems to suit it, to me.

To me this is rhetoric.

I interpret this as: Payment "clearing system" = settlement network = You support the core roadmap with full blocks and high fees.

This isn't Satoshi's Bitcoin.

soo will bee more hard sell btc for other currencies fee will bee huge

but it wasn't intended from the launch that it was going to be expensive either, satoshi admitted also that was ok to do non-fee transaction, as long as there is no spam, bitcoin can be suited for micro transaction but require to be upgraded or fixed put it like you want

Cheap for its purpose but no one now is suggesting they want bitcoins niche to be multimillion dollar transfers, bitcoin was supposed to be a currency to be used by everyone not a currency for the ultra rich. The point is there is no reason why the fees should be this high unless you are wishing for bitcoin to fail.

I guess it comes down to what you are telling me that we have been misled and lied to by both Satoshi Nakamoto and all other subsequent bitcoin proponents from the start that this should be a currency for everyone to be used for all transaction types including your local store purchase.

And what happens when the fees increase another 100x to 100$ per transaction? Are you guys still going to say its cheap and its how bitcoin is meant to be?

There is no reason it shouldn't be possible for bitcoin to be used for coffee payments and acting like there is no problem is ridiculous because ignoring the problem will only lead to fees becoming ever larger until we start forgetting bitcoin to use the cheaper banks and paypal instead.

Acknowledge the problem instead of shifting what you consider bitcoin to be used for, just 3 years ago it was suggested as the ideal alternative payment system to cards for buying things in store. Now you are just shifting what you consider it to be useful for because you want to justify to yourself everything is fine when clearly there are problems looming.