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Topic: A Chain Mail I'm Starting - The Modern Monetary System: What you DON'T know (Read 3750 times)

newbie
Activity: 10
Merit: 1003
Let's start a chainmail way more shorter.
Here how it goes:



Do you want to know the biggest secret in the history of mankind? Take 30 minutes of your time that will change your life by watching this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0

Pass the word.

a quick google link to this page:
http://pragcap.com/debunking-the-biggest-scam-in-the-history-of-mankind

opinion on this ? maybe not a good video to chain mail

btw, i have habit to blacklist everyone who send me a chain mail  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
This debunk page is just a big piece of trash full of idiots too afraid of the truth.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
Let's start a chainmail way more shorter.
Here how it goes:



Do you want to know the biggest secret in the history of mankind? Take 30 minutes of your time that will change your life by watching this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0

Pass the word.
newbie
Activity: 22
Merit: 0
First prior to opening the thread, I thought he meant he was literally starting some chainmail:

http://renfairshoppe.com/images/mail_coif.jpg

Halloween's around the corner, which is why I chuckled a bit. Would take a while to finish a full set of armor in chainmail!

Let's be honest.  I think this is a bit more accurate:

http://quenpompo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/demotivational-posters-sir-cheeto-of-mountain-dew.jpg
hero member
Activity: 552
Merit: 501
This is also not accurate. The Fed returns interest on bonds back to the Treasury. So once the Fed owns Govt Debt the debt has for all practical purposes been monetised. The Fed is not some external entity. It is basically a dept  of the Treasury. Don't confuse form with substance.

And you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Read past all the fancy text, and look at the bare facts of how things work. The Federal Reserve System is in fact a bunch of carefully set up loopholes.

First, there is Federal Reserve stock, and this stock pays dividends. The stock is held by banks. This stock does not grant the power to the stockholders to elect members of the board of governors (this is done by Congress), but instead it gives them a power worth much more: The power to manage, as shareholders, the 'district' Reserve Bank in which they operate. For example, if I'm a california bank, I, along with other shareholders in District 12, will have the power to manage The Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco. Now, what happens if I am bought out by bank from New York? Then the New York bank gets  represented in both District 12, and District 1. Through such a gradual accumulation of power, the stock of the Federal Reserve Bank has accumulated into the control of the few.

The Fed does return interest on bonds back to the Treasury... wait for it... after paying all expenses. Dividends are treated as expenses. As such, all the Federal Reserve has to do in order to make sure that it constantly sucks money out of the government, rather than ever contribute any to it, is manage their balance sheets that they never make too big of a profit and instead stick to a 6% profit each year (6% is the rate paid out in dividends). Since the Fed's balance sheets are never audited because, obviously, it is controlled by the banks and why would they want to audit themselves, this is an extremely easy thing to do.

What you have to understand is that this debt, by definition, can never be monetized. You see, in order for a new dollar to come into existence, it has to be done so with the authority of the fed. But the fed won't just make the dollar and give it to the Government, it will only lend it to the government, at interest. In order to pay back that debt, they would have to return all dollars in existence to the Federal Reserve, because thats how many dollars the Federal Reserve lent to them, because they can never make their own money. But, hold up! There is also interest on that debt. Since there is no more dollars in existence to pay back this interest, the only way to avoid default is to borrow MORE from the fed, just to pay back the existing debt. The entire debt can never, ever, be paid off. The Federal Reserve just keeps on collecting on its always-increasing debt. These interest payments are passed on to the American people in the form of Income Tax, a tax which never existed before the Federal Reserve was formed.

Then, why doesn't the Federal Reserve show up as having made a huge profit and have to return some of that to the Treasury? Simple, because it uses the excess money to buy even more bonds, at even higher prices. The Treasury never sells bonds directly to the Federal Reserve. Instead, it sells bonds to the banks that own the Federal Reserve. The banks take a cut, and raise the prices of the bonds, and re-sell them to the Federal Reserve. That's why interest rates are so low, because the debt has increased so much, that if interest rates were any higher, then the Federal Reserve might have to return some of its profits to the Treasury. But they keep it low enough so that they are always able to 'leak' some of the excess profits back to the banks through bond mark-ups.

1. In 2012 the Federal Reserve received interest of 80 billion dollars out of which it retained 4 billion by way of operating expenses and distributed total dividends of 1.7 billion. The balance of ~ 74 billion dollars was sent straight back to the Treasury. 

2. The debt is monetised because there is no prospect of the Fed ever selling its Treasury holdings. It will simply roll them over indefinitely whilst rebating 95% of the interest back to the Treasury.

In effect the Federal Reserve system is simply a fancy way for the Treasury to print money. The fact that it is semi-privately held is pretty much irrelevant. Dividend payments of less than 2 billion USD are absolutely trivial in the scale of things.

The real scandals are:

1. The Fed is continuing to bail out the banks by buying up sub-prime mortgage paper at far in excess of market-clearing prices.

2. By keeping interest rates at near zero, the Fed enables banks to prop trade with near infinite-leverage.
 
sr. member
Activity: 509
Merit: 250
Disrupt the banking system!
First prior to opening the thread, I thought he meant he was literally starting some chainmail:



Halloween's around the corner, which is why I chuckled a bit. Would take a while to finish a full set of armor in chainmail!
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1006
Bitcoin / Crypto mining Hardware.
It would be good to start with a blog, and just send the questionnaire and link to blog in the chainmail
sr. member
Activity: 509
Merit: 250
Disrupt the banking system!
1) none of the above.  Individuals put money in banks or mutual funds.  If nobody put money in banks, they would have no money to loan.  As shown in Cyprus, a checking account really is not money.  you are a creditor to a bank.  If things get bad they may only give you 75c on the dollar.  The problem is the government in the United States insures deposits.
Uh, I don't see how this says that Bank's aren't increasing the money supply. Clearly they are. All you're saying is that we couldn't do so if we didn't deposit money into banks/

Quote
4) A, B, and C  Bernanke wages are part of the expenses and profits of the fed.  The Federal Reserve shows a profit and does not cost taxpayers anything.  94% of the profits go to the treasury.  The federal reserve buys federal bonds and mortgages and the interest is sent to the government.
Not necessarily true. The shareholders receive a flat 6% dividend, not 6% of profits. This means that 0% goes to the treasury, if the Fed's profits are low enough. I admit I worded the question wrong though, I should have said which of the following parties are guaranteed a share of the profits.

With all due respect, your chain mail (though chain mails are frowned upon in today's internet world) nonetheless is too long for most people to digest, and wouldn't succeed. Not to mention the inclusion of your bitcoin wallet address makes it all the less motivating to spread. It's nothing personal. I think your intentions were good.. just could use a little work to slim it down and perhaps not include your bitcoin address (if you're looking to spread it around).

These days, people are used to reading as much information as they can find in a tweet (140 characters), or a maximum of 2-3 paragraphs (being generous here).

It's long. Reduce it by 90% and take out your wallet address. Please update the OP.
hero member
Activity: 717
Merit: 501
1) none of the above.  Individuals put money in banks or mutual funds.  If nobody put money in banks, they would have no money to loan.  As shown in Cyprus, a checking account really is not money.  you are a creditor to a bank.  If things get bad they may only give you 75c on the dollar.  The problem is the government in the United States insures deposits.
Uh, I don't see how this says that Bank's aren't increasing the money supply. Clearly they are. All you're saying is that we couldn't do so if we didn't deposit money into banks/

Quote
4) A, B, and C  Bernanke wages are part of the expenses and profits of the fed.  The Federal Reserve shows a profit and does not cost taxpayers anything.  94% of the profits go to the treasury.  The federal reserve buys federal bonds and mortgages and the interest is sent to the government.
Not necessarily true. The shareholders receive a flat 6% dividend, not 6% of profits. This means that 0% goes to the treasury, if the Fed's profits are low enough. I admit I worded the question wrong though, I should have said which of the following parties are guaranteed a share of the profits.

6% dividend of what?  revenues or profits?  I am really surprised no one has asked for a complete shareholder list and dividends payments per share.  furthermore, reading online, many of these shareholders might be outside the United States, which is a really strange concept.  Furthermore the Rothchilds might be the largest shareholder, which is rather strange since the made their original fortune selling soldiers to fight for the British in the revolutionary war.
hero member
Activity: 492
Merit: 503
Mmm. Everybody loves chain emails.  Roll Eyes

Seriously, just put it all up in a blog. If anyone asks you about your thoughts on the modern monetary system, send them a link. Christ.

Oh, also I'm English. So if your fourth point is true (no fucking idea, I have too many video games to play) then... yay us, I suppose.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1) none of the above.  Individuals put money in banks or mutual funds.  If nobody put money in banks, they would have no money to loan.  As shown in Cyprus, a checking account really is not money.  you are a creditor to a bank.  If things get bad they may only give you 75c on the dollar.  The problem is the government in the United States insures deposits.
Uh, I don't see how this says that Bank's aren't increasing the money supply. Clearly they are. All you're saying is that we couldn't do so if we didn't deposit money into banks/

Quote
4) A, B, and C  Bernanke wages are part of the expenses and profits of the fed.  The Federal Reserve shows a profit and does not cost taxpayers anything.  94% of the profits go to the treasury.  The federal reserve buys federal bonds and mortgages and the interest is sent to the government.
Not necessarily true. The shareholders receive a flat 6% dividend, not 6% of profits. This means that 0% goes to the treasury, if the Fed's profits are low enough. I admit I worded the question wrong though, I should have said which of the following parties are guaranteed a share of the profits.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
This is also not accurate. The Fed returns interest on bonds back to the Treasury. So once the Fed owns Govt Debt the debt has for all practical purposes been monetised. The Fed is not some external entity. It is basically a dept  of the Treasury. Don't confuse form with substance.

And you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Read past all the fancy text, and look at the bare facts of how things work. The Federal Reserve System is in fact a bunch of carefully set up loopholes.

First, there is Federal Reserve stock, and this stock pays dividends. The stock is held by banks. This stock does not grant the power to the stockholders to elect members of the board of governors (this is done by Congress), but instead it gives them a power worth much more: The power to manage, as shareholders, the 'district' Reserve Bank in which they operate. For example, if I'm a california bank, I, along with other shareholders in District 12, will have the power to manage The Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco. Now, what happens if I am bought out by bank from New York? Then the New York bank gets  represented in both District 12, and District 1. Through such a gradual accumulation of power, the stock of the Federal Reserve Bank has accumulated into the control of the few.

The Fed does return interest on bonds back to the Treasury... wait for it... after paying all expenses. Dividends are treated as expenses. As such, all the Federal Reserve has to do in order to make sure that it constantly sucks money out of the government, rather than ever contribute any to it, is manage their balance sheets that they never make too big of a profit and instead stick to a 6% profit each year (6% is the rate paid out in dividends). Since the Fed's balance sheets are never audited because, obviously, it is controlled by the banks and why would they want to audit themselves, this is an extremely easy thing to do.

What you have to understand is that this debt, by definition, can never be monetized. You see, in order for a new dollar to come into existence, it has to be done so with the authority of the fed. But the fed won't just make the dollar and give it to the Government, it will only lend it to the government, at interest. In order to pay back that debt, they would have to return all dollars in existence to the Federal Reserve, because thats how many dollars the Federal Reserve lent to them, because they can never make their own money. But, hold up! There is also interest on that debt. Since there is no more dollars in existence to pay back this interest, the only way to avoid default is to borrow MORE from the fed, just to pay back the existing debt. The entire debt can never, ever, be paid off. The Federal Reserve just keeps on collecting on its always-increasing debt. These interest payments are passed on to the American people in the form of Income Tax, a tax which never existed before the Federal Reserve was formed.

Then, why doesn't the Federal Reserve show up as having made a huge profit and have to return some of that to the Treasury? Simple, because it uses the excess money to buy even more bonds, at even higher prices. The Treasury never sells bonds directly to the Federal Reserve. Instead, it sells bonds to the banks that own the Federal Reserve. The banks take a cut, and raise the prices of the bonds, and re-sell them to the Federal Reserve. That's why interest rates are so low, because the debt has increased so much, that if interest rates were any higher, then the Federal Reserve might have to return some of its profits to the Treasury. But they keep it low enough so that they are always able to 'leak' some of the excess profits back to the banks through bond mark-ups.
hero member
Activity: 717
Merit: 501
1) none of the above.  Individuals put money in banks or mutual funds.  If nobody put money in banks, they would have no money to loan.  As shown in Cyprus, a checking account really is not money.  you are a creditor to a bank.  If things get bad they may only give you 75c on the dollar.  The problem is the government in the United States insures deposits.

2) Federal Reserve

3) All of the above.  The congress wanted an income tax to give them more power to run wars, more pay, give out more goodies for votes, ...

4) A, B, and C  Bernanke wages are part of the expenses and profits of the fed.  The Federal Reserve shows a profit and does not cost taxpayers anything.  94% of the profits go to the treasury.  The federal reserve buys federal bonds and mortgages and the interest is sent to the government.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/15/federal-reserve-record-profit_n_2884366.html

A. may also be incorrect as the taxes and personal income taxes from these member banks may exceed their profits.   Thus they are net taxpayers and the treasury gets it all.
full member
Activity: 152
Merit: 100
So basically you want everyone to spam their contacts with a wall of text followed by your Bitcoin address? Great idea!

This. Chain mails are evil.
full member
Activity: 140
Merit: 100
Hoist the Colours

Youtube! If you narrate what you just wrote with various well placed pictures then you can get far more eyes than a long email.

newbie
Activity: 22
Merit: 0
This post shows the real barrier to mass bitcoin adoption. Average Joe will never read or process something long and detailed like this.  People have had PCs for 20 years and 99% don't know (or care) what an Ethernet cable is. We need to stop trying to get the general public to "understand" how BTC works. It will never happen.
Start talking about the blockchain and you get glazed eyes really fast.  People don't care. They want to push a few buttons and see it work without having to think.

Develop apps and ways for people to use them that are, in their daily lives, better than dollars.  That's how it will happen.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
So you basically you want everyone to spam there contacts with a wall of text followed by your Bitcoin address? Great idea!

Ha, I didn't know there is a Bitcoin address inside. Was to lengthy to even notice.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
So basically you want everyone to spam their contacts with a wall of text followed by your Bitcoin address? Great idea!
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1016
Way too much text to read.
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