Topic: A high yield bond: low risk, Interst paid daily, 0.2%-1.2% - page 2. (Read 9712 times)

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/how-to-identify-a-ponzi-100696

Ponzi Indicators
1. High rate of return
Explanation: ponzi schemes typically offer very high rates of return that are not possible.  Anything that is > 50%/year APR is suspicious.  Anything > 500% APR is very suspicious.  Ponzis can offer lower rates as well (see Maddoff - 10% APR), but these are less common.

2.  Provides no evidence of business activity
They refuse to show what they are investing their capital, what products(s) or services they are selling, and who the customers are.  By contrast a mining corporation will be able to provide pictures of hardware and statistics of how many BTC generated per month.

3. Business activity is "speculation"
Speculation doesn't make steady rates of return. In fact the return rate should often be negative.

4. Steady rates of return
When combined with a high rate of return that is greater than the market rate of return this is suspicious.

5. Increasing demand for capital
Unlike a regular business which has its largest demand for capital at the start, the ponzi starts off with a very small amount of capital ("refuses" deposits), and then grows rapidly.  An increasing demand for capital makes sense only if the business can show what the money is being used for.  A ponzi will need to have its capital grow at a standard rate that exceeds the withdrawals, whereas a legitimate business will have a varying rate of investment (and this rate will often hit zero).

6. Operator hides their identity
If the name and identity of the person who runs this project is publicly known, and they live in a jurisdiction where it would be easy to prosecute them then they are less likely to run away with the money.  Though there are exceptions to this (perhaps too many for this to be a good indicator?).

7. A Super Majority of Non-Investors view it as a Ponzi
If a business is only defended as legitimate by those who are invested in it, while the overwhelming majority of individuals who have no money to gain from taking a position see it as a ponzi -- it is likely that the non-investors are more trustworthy in their assessment.

8. They advertise a "Limited Availability"
They have a low demand for funds.  Especially in the early phase.  Ideally they've got people chomping at the bit to be included in the scheme.

9. They have "Pass-Throughs".
Tentatively this seems like a good indicator. I don't think pass-throughs are typically used in regular project funding.  It increases the distance between the investor and the fund-owner and acts as a shield/distraction.  It is more indicative of money laundering.

If someone is offering you something for nothing it is a scam, period. And as people have pointed out when something is indistinguishable from a ponzi scheme then for all intents and purposes it is one.

The fact you use "low risk" in your advertising is yet another red flag.

DeathAndTaxes, you are trolling now. Your mathematics and reasoning ability sucks. You redo your math again and I won't waste my time to tell where you've been wrong. As I said, this business is not scalable and special. not everyone can do this and no one can do it as big as they want. You don't even have the ability to distinguish compound interest rate and uncompound interest rate.

FYI, the COF.NYSE had been treated as a scam on the market years ago, as their reported default rate is unbelievably low. However, they do have their secret tricks and methods to outperform. You would had been the losers who short COF.NYSE at the bottom of its stock price when the troll flying over the Wall Street.

... and what the hell's a 'yied'?

I dont always deposit money in HYIP schemes, but when I do, its with people who cant spell "interest".

lol.

LOL - I really love this place sometimes!

I suggest CHASE because people will be chasing you when you steal all their coins.

Anyone who falls for you scam is an idiot but if you # are correct you are thinking to small.  How about aproach some venture capitalists get tens of millions and retire in a few years.

The best debt collection companies recover maybe 10 cents on the dollar.   This is with full legal recourse (SSN, signed contracts, credit reporting, judgements, wage garnishments, colleciton calls, etc).   You have the highest of the high risk clients and only 3% to 5% default.  You don know how silly that sounds right?  The default rate for mortgages in the US traditionally was ~3%.  Currently in closer to 10%.  Among your loans which default 90% result in no loss.  That is litterally the best in the world.  Hell most banks would be happy to have only 20% of defaulted loans result in no loss.

Another way to look at it is if only 4% of loans default and you only lose funds on 10% that do your debtors are so credit worthy that the loans are 99.6% risk free.  Hell people with an 800 FICO aren't that low risk.  So you found the world's lowest risk population of debtors who just happen to not mind paying 137,641% APR?  Awesome!

APR = "Annualized Return".  The length of the loan doesn't matter.  You are paying depositors 107% to 7,678% APR.  Obviously you must get more interest than that from your debtors or you are losing money.  The fact that your debtors borrow for only a day is immaterial.   You are paying depositors continually so as you need 365 single day loans a year to avoid unutilized capital.  I loan for 365 days @ 2% per day or 365 individual loans for 1 day each @ 2%.  Either way it is 137,641% APR.  

I suggest something authoritative sounding, something big, something solid...

How about:     Bank of America Corporation

Thank you DeathAndTaxes and everyone who has brought this up at this early stage, which saves me lots of legal trouble in the future. I won't risk into the being sued situation. I will change the name.



They are just irrational and in a hurry when they decided to borrow from us. We are 100% sure where the money is going to use. We know whom we will go to if the borrower himself cannot pay back the money(their parents). In my country, the credit card cannot withdraw cash more than 10% of their total credit limits. and where they want to use money only accept cash. So even someone with a good credit record in the bank will borrow money from us in such a special situation.
It is not a 3000%+ APR.(I guess this is a typo, you mean 300%+, right?) It last only for 1 day most of time for 2% per day. it is not a (1+2%)^365 formula. it is not compounded. f you can find one please tell me. the IRR/discount cash flow is most mathematically perfect and realistically foolish theory in the financial industry.
There is no big company provide "payday loan" in my country. we are not a company. i guess I will not use the term "corporation" any more. I'm not misleading anyone. In my country people don't treat "company/corporation" term as seriously as you guys.



About 3%-5% will become a defaulted loan, and about 10% of the defaulted loan will lose part of the principal at last.

OP, you should team up with Obsi as he runs a similar scam, OBSI.HRPT, but isn't dumb enough to use the name of a major bank.

Even if this guy does have actual victims borrowing at above usurious rates, using the name of a large company is stupid to say the least.

"Capital One Corp.": Can't you come up with an original name, or where you just expecting nobody to notice you are not the actual Capital One that we have all heard of?

Yeah, this is not going to fly.

1) You're violating the trademark of a huge finance corporation, which would crush me under the sheer weight of the amount of paper their lawyers would send.

2) This is obviously a scam.

Go list on MPex. they need assets.

I don't think you guys understand.  This is just like Chase bank or Citibank because it is called Capital One.  You have his word on this.   

You're a bit too quick to toss out that "Ponzi" attribute.

There's a number of more accurate labels ("Laughable Scam Attempt", "Weak Effort at Fraud") that are available.

Charles Ponzi worked far too hard to earn his eternal spot in financial history - let's not diminish his accomplishment by offering that title to just anyone.

Where are you incorporated?  Who is on your board of directors?  Please link to the state or country website where your corporation is registered?  Are you aware Capital One is a registered trademark and that pre-existing Capital One also happens to be in financial services?  Will investor funds be used to pay litigation costs when you are sued?

Why are your "clients" borrowing at 3000%+ APR?  Are they such bad credit risks that they can't borrow anywhere else for cheaper?  PayDay loans are only on the order of a couple hundred % APR and available to just about anyone with an ID and a job.  How large is your collection team?  How do intend to enforce unlawful contracts?  What is your average loan length, what % of loans default?  What is the historical collection rate on defaulted loans?

(The questions are rhetorical I don't really expect any realistic answer from a ponzi operator).

I have my first investor already. It's a preIPO order.  It will be paying interest 3 days later.
Thanks.

lol. Im going to send them an email right now congratulating them on their acceptance of bitcoin and particularly pointing out the account of the guy "representing" them.

Im sure a fortune500 company will love their name being used and will be in contact with theymos to "congratulate" him for a well run forum that offers all these above board investment opportunities.


To congratulate them send an email to  webinfo (at) capitalone.com

Any plans on doing commercials with Alec Baldwin?