A idea from my home boy - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Marvell1

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Quote from: savetheFORUM on July 22, 2023, 07:15:24 AM

Quote from: kro55 on July 18, 2023, 10:15:11 PM

This idea only makes storing phrases more complicated and difficult for ourselves and no one else. Instead of us just looking for a safe place to store our phrases, we now need to find 2 places to store them.

The way that I am using is to write my phrase on paper, but I will shuffle the position of the words. In case if they are exposed, thieves can't access my property either. Of course, there is still a risk if I forget the original position of the words, but another thing is that I always share it with my loved ones. So if I forget it, my relatives will remember it for me.

Shuffling can make the unauthorized person suffer but they might get lucky after a few several tries of entering your seed phrase in the wallet. Don't be sure that thieves can't found or access your location. They can only come in random or when you least expect it, so it is always better to be safe than sorry.

Having securely saved multiple back-up of the exact position of your seed phrase is a must so that you can login them easily but it must be kept in a much secure location which you can also remember easily. Sharing our seed phrases to our loved ones might be a good idea because unexpected things could happen to us but you should choose a family member carefully.

Nothing is absolutely safe, everything is risky, mate. You can't doubt everything and live in anxiety just thinking about storing bitcoins. In my opinion, we don't need to be too fancy or complicate things, use whichever method you feel is safest for you (any method).

One more thing, I think it's best to share seed phrases with loved ones because we work, invest and earn for them and not only ourselves. So no need to worry about sharing seed phrases with them. If you keep doubting everyone including your parents, wife and children, no one will trust you.

savetheFORUM

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Quote from: kro55 on July 18, 2023, 10:15:11 PM

This idea only makes storing phrases more complicated and difficult for ourselves and no one else. Instead of us just looking for a safe place to store our phrases, we now need to find 2 places to store them.

The way that I am using is to write my phrase on paper, but I will shuffle the position of the words. In case if they are exposed, thieves can't access my property either. Of course, there is still a risk if I forget the original position of the words, but another thing is that I always share it with my loved ones. So if I forget it, my relatives will remember it for me.

Shuffling can make the unauthorized person suffer but they might get lucky after a few several tries of entering your seed phrase in the wallet. Don't be sure that thieves can't found or access your location. They can only come in random or when you least expect it, so it is always better to be safe than sorry.

Having securely saved multiple back-up of the exact position of your seed phrase is a must so that you can login them easily but it must be kept in a much secure location which you can also remember easily. Sharing our seed phrases to our loved ones might be a good idea because unexpected things could happen to us but you should choose a family member carefully.

coupable

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Quote from: AmoreJaz on July 19, 2023, 04:40:27 PM

Quote from: coupable on July 19, 2023, 03:49:06 PM

It's not a good idea by all means. First, because it is not possible to guarantee the validity of our memory in remembering the two (or more) words that will be separated from the rest of the seed words or their arrangement, then this allows the display of the rest of the words, that is, there is no need to hide them. Secondly, because there are better solutions available so that more layers of protection can be added.

i won't trust my memory either. we are just humans and we can't assure 100% that we won't forget all the details that we want to remember. even if we say only 2 words are missing, yet the list is very long and its not good trying to remember those 2 words.

Of all the proposed solutions to protect and hide seed words, none of them depend primarily on the ability of the human mind to remember. Like any other metal, the cells of the human brain are perishable, just like the rest of the body, and they can be considered more susceptible to damage than other materials. Therefore, seed storage boards and hardware wallets are made of solid metals that are not subject to damage or combustion for the longest possible time.
Therefore, I would like to remind you again that we are in the process of discussing the idea on the basis that it was proposed by a young child who tried hard to think of the easiest solution from his point of view.

CryptSafe

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Quote from: sunsilk on July 19, 2023, 03:58:24 PM

I remember someone said that he's got his recovery phrases memorized on his mind and I don't know if that's true and his argument with that is that no one will ever steal it on his mind.

But you all know the catch and the topic is just the same for having 2-4 words or seeds that's missing from writing it down.

It's not a good idea but this time, you do you. Whatever is working to you, do it as you're the one who's responsible for everything you do.

I do not see this to be safe. Memorizing a seed phrase seems okay from some perspective but not alright in general. Memorizing task of this nature is more of a cram work because if you should miss one word, the whole words are mixed up which would get everything confusing for you and as such there is every possibility that you might get it difficult knowing the first word to the last word as it is sequentially. So to best be on the safe side write down your seed phrase and store them on different places best for you to quickly access them when ever you need them.

aylabadia05

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Quote from: KiaKia on July 18, 2023, 05:02:08 AM

If you get your recovery seed from any wallet, either those with 12 seed words or 24, and you decide to write down 10 out of 12 or 20 out of 24 and keep the other two words separately somewhere else, how stupid or cool is this? He claimed he will keep the two words in a safe location different from the other words and also store the two words off head.

Give your answers please, stupid? Cool? Not great? No need?

It's neither a good idea nor a bad idea to store it elsewhere without writing it all in one place.
writing 10 words in one place and 2 words in another can make it difficult for people to know what the written words mean with different creations offline.

For me that's not bad and I can accept an idea like that because each of us has different ideas in securing word for word that is quite important so that our assets are intact.
And I'm still a big believer in storing seed phrase reserves in a few places I consider safe.

Obari

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Well I don't think this idea is a nice one and rather than trying to store some in his head which has greater chances of been forgotten, I think it will be better to write down the seedphrase and just store them in a save place and this might be safer than the option he proposed.

And what's the relationship between you and your homeboy and I wouldn't even advice you to have any connection with storing his seedphrase because most times, human being always looks for a tangible excuse to blame someone else for their casualties and if there is a case of loss, you might easily be pointed out which I believe you might not want.

justdimin

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on July 19, 2023, 04:48:30 AM

Quote from: dzungmobile on July 18, 2023, 05:18:10 AM

Because if he lost two words of his seed, it the rest 10 or 22 words will be useless. He will have to use service to brute force it and if brute force does not work, he loses his bitcoin. Spliting it does not make it more secured but worse. What will happen if one of two words are from checksum?

Just two words, to brute force it would be very easy. But the idea to split seed phrase into different parts is not recommended at all when there are better options like to use passphrase instead, or the use of 2FA wallet, or multisig wallet which are enough to protect your coins if done correctly.

Why do people are "losing" these things and why are we trying to find a way to make them work for it? I feel like that shouldn't really be a deal and I feel like we should not really make it work. I just think that we should make sure that people know how to properly store them and just use the things we already have.

I get that people fear that they may lose it, so just write it down somewhere and store it safe, why would you want to do something that changes anything. I believe that the results would not be that weird and I feel like it should not be any different. Of course it's hard to have a different approach, because we have been seeing the same type of approach many times over, the reason is that it works.

panganib999

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Quote from: KiaKia on July 18, 2023, 05:02:08 AM

Ok, good day fellas, someone brought up an idea for storing his Electrum recovery seed to my notice and I feel it's not entirely still safe and I will like to share here for some feedbacks before I tell him my final answer about the idea.

If you get your recovery seed from any wallet, either those with 12 seed words or 24, and you decide to write down 10 out of 12 or 20 out of 24 and keep the other two words separately somewhere else, how stupid or cool is this? He claimed he will keep the two words in a safe location different from the other words and also store the two words off head.

Give your answers please, stupid? Cool? Not great? No need?

Not a great idea if we're talking about a regular human being whose memories become fuzzy after 3 hours (it's true). he might misplace stuff and it's already tough choosing which words to leave out and which words to include but whatever. Provided that he is able to memorize the words and all that, or at least remember where he placed the notes I'd say it's unnecessary too. Everyone else who could've gotten to your seedphrase will have already been able to acquire it over the internet, and those who aren't will never do, so I think this plan of his, while I consider smart and something out of a movie film of some sort, doesn't really account for the digital threat that looms over the corner.

Props to him still, but there are smarter ways to protect your electrum account. Some of which you don't need to inconvenience yourself that much.

AmoreJaz

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Quote from: coupable on July 19, 2023, 03:49:06 PM

It's not a good idea by all means. First, because it is not possible to guarantee the validity of our memory in remembering the two (or more) words that will be separated from the rest of the seed words or their arrangement, then this allows the display of the rest of the words, that is, there is no need to hide them. Secondly, because there are better solutions available so that more layers of protection can be added.

Quote from: dzungmobile on July 18, 2023, 05:18:10 AM

Quote from: KiaKia on July 18, 2023, 05:02:08 AM

If you get your recovery seed from any wallet, either those with 12 seed words or 24, and you decide to write down 10 out of 12 or 20 out of 24 and keep the other two words separately somewhere else, how stupid or cool is this? He claimed he will keep the two words in a safe location different from the other words and also store the two words off head.

Stupid idea.

I prefer saying that it's not a good idea to practice with sensitive data. However, i think it's a genius idea from a young boy who tries to find a way on how to manage his secret data. Note that a boy at an early age would not think about all the risks.

i won't trust my memory either. we are just humans and we can't assure 100% that we won't forget all the details that we want to remember. even if we say only 2 words are missing, yet the list is very long and its not good trying to remember those 2 words. but whatever decision he will make, he should know the possible risks so much better if he has other contingencies in case of forgetting where he put those missing words. always have a back-up plan so you won't regret later on.

Cryptomultiplier

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It's quite a funny idea, either the friend is having trust issues with persons he lives with, doesn't intend to make withdrawal from the account until a said time he knows, just wants to try it out to see what happens.

If the friend is confident enough he should go ahead, but I doubt he would use the wallet for long, because anything can happen.

sunsilk

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I remember someone said that he's got his recovery phrases memorized on his mind and I don't know if that's true and his argument with that is that no one will ever steal it on his mind.

But you all know the catch and the topic is just the same for having 2-4 words or seeds that's missing from writing it down.

It's not a good idea but this time, you do you. Whatever is working to you, do it as you're the one who's responsible for everything you do.

Fatunad

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Quote from: RockBell on July 19, 2023, 06:27:53 AM

Quote from: worle1bm on July 19, 2023, 01:17:13 AM

So if he lost those saved words say even if 4 words are lost do you know how hard or say impossible to brute force the remaining one to get access to wallet? This is totally dumb idea and keeping them off mind is totally stupid idea so it's not at all suggested to do.The other option is to write them down and Store them on 2-3 places so if one get damaged others are safe but complete list is necessary.

Sometimes the most simple things are the most difficult things and the issue of saving private keys is a problem once any part of do keys get missing, it will be very difficult for you to have access to that wallet again, and saving it online is not the best option, I don't even like the idea of saving it in your head the best thing to do is just find a secure way to store it, and as you said, it's best to store it in multiple locations. You can also store it in a bank this will help lessen your fear of losing your price key because once it's gone, it's gone. This is something that everyone should keep in mind. not your keys, not your coin

Even we do say that saving or remembering up just 2 words would be simple if you do have plans on having that mind saving or would really be just memorizing those words but same as you said that there's always a chance or moment that you would really be able to forget those words and on the time that it would happen then say goodbye to that wallet and the funds inside of it. This is more risky than on writing those words on a piece of paper and also its never been that good or ideal on letting someone who do able to know those phrases despite on being that incomplete but still it wont really be giving out the confidence that your coins are really that totally safe on being that having those unauthorized access which would be result into lost coins.Its not something that needs to be shared up and its not something that needs to be having that
other peoples awareness no matter how close you are whether a family member or close friend on which it is something that to be personal if you dont like on having on losing
those coins specially if we are talking huge money on here or amount.

coupable

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It's not a good idea by all means. First, because it is not possible to guarantee the validity of our memory in remembering the two (or more) words that will be separated from the rest of the seed words or their arrangement, then this allows the display of the rest of the words, that is, there is no need to hide them. Secondly, because there are better solutions available so that more layers of protection can be added.

Quote from: dzungmobile on July 18, 2023, 05:18:10 AM

Quote from: KiaKia on July 18, 2023, 05:02:08 AM

If you get your recovery seed from any wallet, either those with 12 seed words or 24, and you decide to write down 10 out of 12 or 20 out of 24 and keep the other two words separately somewhere else, how stupid or cool is this? He claimed he will keep the two words in a safe location different from the other words and also store the two words off head.

Stupid idea.

I prefer saying that it's not a good idea to practice with sensitive data. However, i think it's a genius idea from a young boy who tries to find a way on how to manage his secret data. Note that a boy at an early age would not think about all the risks.

sokani

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Quote from: KiaKia on July 18, 2023, 05:02:08 AM

Ok, good day fellas, someone brought up an idea for storing his Electrum recovery seed to my notice and I feel it's not entirely still safe and I will like to share here for some feedbacks before I tell him my final answer about the idea.

If you get your recovery seed from any wallet, either those with 12 seed words or 24, and you decide to write down 10 out of 12 or 20 out of 24 and keep the other two words separately somewhere else, how stupid or cool is this? He claimed he will keep the two words in a safe location different from the other words and also store the two words off head.

Give your answers please, stupid? Cool? Not great? No need?

I think it is a dumb idea. I've actually thought about this before, and I can tell you that it has its own disadvantage. If the person chooses to separate the seed phrase into 3 parts, it means that he has to mark each of them with a number to be able to know which one comes first before the other, if not he has to rely on try and error method when entering the seed phrase. Also, the person might forget the last two memorized words or suffered from amnesia due to head injury, and lost access to his funds if brute force is not successful.

CryptSafe

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It is nice you have come up with such an idea but the safety of your key phrase matters a lot when it comes to finance. Storing your key phrase in different places makes some good sense because if you should misplace or forget one, the others are still available for you to access but the idea of writing the last two phrase and storing it somewhere separate from the rest of the others is what you will have to be very careful of not to misplace it and also you should note that as humans there are lots of thoughts going on in the head and if your friend should think of doing such without putting it down somewhere, I am afraid he just might one day call you to see if you can be able to help him out which i believe would be very difficult to do.

However if you can go with acronym to best save your key phrase which no one could understand only you, then you can keep it openly where you can be seeing it everyday unbeknownst to anyone who could know what it means. This can be of help rather than writing them half and separating them everywhere which you are not sure if you could get hold of them if something happens that needs you to urgently get them close to you.

Peanutswar

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Quote from: KiaKia on July 18, 2023, 05:02:08 AM

Ok, good day fellas, someone brought up an idea for storing his Electrum recovery seed to my notice and I feel it's not entirely still safe and I will like to share here for some feedbacks before I tell him my final answer about the idea.

If you get your recovery seed from any wallet, either those with 12 seed words or 24, and you decide to write down 10 out of 12 or 20 out of 24 and keep the other two words separately somewhere else, how stupid or cool is this? He claimed he will keep the two words in a safe location different from the other words and also store the two words off head.

Give your answers please, stupid? Cool? Not great? No need?

Actually there's nothing wrong with the idea of making yourself secured with your seed phrase the thing right here is once you lost another piece of the remaining seed this could you a lot of trouble, IMHO its ideal if you put the same paper of the address and make a copy of it so you don't need to worry if you lost the other one. This could be less hassle in the future that you need to seek your seed. Or else encrypt your seed and seek for decryption so this could another layer of security.

RockBell

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Quote from: worle1bm on July 19, 2023, 01:17:13 AM

So if he lost those saved words say even if 4 words are lost do you know how hard or say impossible to brute force the remaining one to get access to wallet? This is totally dumb idea and keeping them off mind is totally stupid idea so it's not at all suggested to do.The other option is to write them down and Store them on 2-3 places so if one get damaged others are safe but complete list is necessary.

Sometimes the most simple things are the most difficult things and the issue of saving private keys is a problem once any part of do keys get missing, it will be very difficult for you to have access to that wallet again, and saving it online is not the best option, I don't even like the idea of saving it in your head the best thing to do is just find a secure way to store it, and as you said, it's best to store it in multiple locations. You can also store it in a bank this will help lessen your fear of losing your price key because once it's gone, it's gone. This is something that everyone should keep in mind. not your keys, not your coin

mich

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Quote from: KiaKia on July 18, 2023, 05:02:08 AM

Ok, good day fellas, someone brought up an idea for storing his Electrum recovery seed to my notice and I feel it's not entirely still safe and I will like to share here for some feedbacks before I tell him my final answer about the idea.

If you get your recovery seed from any wallet, either those with 12 seed words or 24, and you decide to write down 10 out of 12 or 20 out of 24 and keep the other two words separately somewhere else, how stupid or cool is this? He claimed he will keep the two words in a safe location different from the other words and also store the two words off head.

Give your answers please, stupid? Cool? Not great? No need?

Well, I do not think this is a stupid idea. If he thinks it will give him sense of more security, than we are not the ones to judge for making him feel more safer. It is his Bitcoins so he can do what he feels.

I did do something like this in the past for my recovery seed. But the last word is so easy for me to remember so I did not write it down. Just so if someone some way stole my seed they would not know the last word. But I am still thinking this is not needed.

retreat

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Quote from: KiaKia on July 18, 2023, 05:02:08 AM

-snip-

Give your answers please, stupid? Cool? Not great? No need?

It's a stupid way to store seed words, because the possibility for you to miss 2 more words is quite high, for some reason. The best way to store it is to encrypt it either on Box.com or a device that doesn't have internet access. For me personally, I store seed words on a PC that I don't use anymore and usually I don't keep Bitcoins in one wallet for a long time, I will make transfers over a period of time and so far I haven't had any problems with that.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: dzungmobile on July 18, 2023, 05:18:10 AM

Because if he lost two words of his seed, it the rest 10 or 22 words will be useless. He will have to use service to brute force it and if brute force does not work, he loses his bitcoin. Spliting it does not make it more secured but worse. What will happen if one of two words are from checksum?

Just two words, to brute force it would be very easy. But the idea to split seed phrase into different parts is not recommended at all when there are better options like to use passphrase instead, or the use of 2FA wallet, or multisig wallet which are enough to protect your coins if done correctly.

Quote from: Jawhead999 on July 19, 2023, 04:34:17 AM

Shamir secret sharing, passphrase, split seed phrase, multi sig etc are similar with each other where you're need two or more requirements to access your wallet. Nothing new about this technique to safe your seed phrase. I think there's no problem if you want to use this way to save your seed phrase, it's better than create song or poem with your seed phrase or convert to HEX code.

The idea is not also good. I can not see the post that also discourage the use of shamir secret sharing, but not recommended by established members on this forum that are developers. Convert words to characters is not also advisable as bitcoin developers moved from the use of characters (private keys) for backup and recovery to seed phrase. Using passphrase is easy and enough if strong passphrase is used.

Topic: A idea from my home boy - page 2. (Read 674 times)