A message from Wallstreet | Bitcointalksearch.org

Nagle

legendary

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Quote from: Xosihc on April 16, 2013, 02:52:26 PM

The notion that wallstreet is behind these “pump and dumps” is retarded. At its peak the bitcoin market cap was what $2.5 billion maybe $3 billion. Wow!!! The size of a mid-cap stock! Jee-wiz!! I could probably name 500 companies that none of you have heard of, that have a larger market cap than bitcoins. In the investment world a $2.5 billion market cap is nothing. The reality is, bitcoins act like a thinly traded penny stock. If a hedge fund manager really wanted to do a pump and dump, they would just use a small stock. The entry/exit is 1000000x easier than bitcoins.

Right.

Bitcoin's "market cap" isn't that big. About 7 million early Bitcoins never show up in transactions. (See Shamir's paper.) Some are lost, generated by early users when the difficulty and value were both very low. Some are being hoarded. We can't tell which. The active float is about 4 million Bitcoins, worth about $400 million today. (Twice that last week, half that two days ago.)

This isn't a big market by financial standards. It's really tough to exit. Right now, you could sell about 500 Bitcoins on Mt. Gox without moving the price too much.

Xosihc

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Hello

Quote from: UKMark on April 18, 2013, 06:27:32 AM

Call me skeptical but since this post was made, it's been in the WSJ twice.... Undecided

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324345804578426692340390104.html?

http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20130417-908270.html?

Well.. I still think there is a difference between the news outlets talking about it - and the guys at wall street listening to it.

UKMark

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Empty vessels make most noise.

Call me skeptical but since this post was made, it's been in the WSJ twice.... Undecided

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324345804578426692340390104.html?

http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20130417-908270.html?

evolve

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daytrader/superhero

Quote from: Luckybit on April 17, 2013, 10:14:41 PM

Lets say I have $500, how can I buy those stocks on E-trade when back in the day when I wanted to get involved in Forex and E-Trade they wanted something like $1000 minimum just to get involved? I didn't have the money to even start. Then you have the various tax issues to deal with.

Sharebuilder accounts are free with no minimum.

Wekkel

legendary

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yes

Quote from: Impaler on April 18, 2013, 12:51:35 AM

Also 3D printing is never going to be used for anything but .....

Be carefull with the word 'never'.

Impaler

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CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!

Finally someone talking some sense, these BTC fanatics see conspiracies behind everything, its like the 12 rules of 'Bitcoinery"

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2013/04/the-10-rules-of-goldbuggery/

Also 3D printing is never going to be used for anything but making some non-functional design and demo pieces, its too slow, too expensive and the parts are too fragile to ever replace conventional CNC machine tool work in metal or plastic. I blame the hyper around it on Sigulataritarian and other techno-religious types.

Birdy

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Quote from: KarlChappe on April 17, 2013, 06:27:16 PM

Quote from: Birdy on April 17, 2013, 06:58:22 AM

I also think 3D printing is going to be a really big thing. But I don't know what I could do with that knowledge.
(not like I have sums to invest anyway)
In 10 years I can show people this post and say "See!? I was right!" :p

You can start a blog and explain everything about 3D printing. What is 3D printing? What you can do with 3D printing? What do you need? Where you can get what you need? And in 10 years, you could be big. You could be a reference about it, you could earn a bit of money and invest on the right player because you will know everything about 3D printing et cetera.

Of course, this is a lot of work and need passion about it. But money is not an excuse.

Nobody cares you were right, only what you do count.

Sorry for that, I'm drunk but I think what I tell you.

Yes, you are right. I guess I'm not passionate enough about 3D-printing then, because I cant see me spending nights with it (like I'm doing reading about Bitcoints right now and did about other things before).

Luckybit

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Lets say I have $500, how can I buy those stocks on E-trade when back in the day when I wanted to get involved in Forex and E-Trade they wanted something like $1000 minimum just to get involved? I didn't have the money to even start. Then you have the various tax issues to deal with.

Xosihc

hero member

Activity: 538

Merit: 500

Hello

Quote from: Birdy on April 17, 2013, 06:58:22 AM

I also think 3D printing is going to be a really big thing. But I don't know what I could do with that knowledge.
(not like I have sums to invest anyway)
In 10 years I can show people this post and say "See!? I was right!" :p

When you say "i don't know what I can do with that knowledge"

If you are coming from an investment standpoint. Meaning you think it's going to be real big and you don't know how to capitalize on it. You can always invest in 3d printing stocks: SSYS, DDD, XONE.

It doesn't take that much to open an e-trade account and buy in.

Not sure if that's related to where you were going with that or not.

Xosihc

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Hello

Quote from: abbyd on April 17, 2013, 06:17:07 AM

Thanks for weighing in with a "Wall Street perspective".

Quote from: Xosihc on April 16, 2013, 02:52:26 PM

The reality is, bitcoins act like a thinly traded penny stock. If a hedge fund manager really wanted to do a pump and dump, they would just use a small stock. The entry/exit is 1000000x easier than bitcoins.

But if a Wall Street guy is looking for a quick arbitrage or pump and dump, don't they look for precisely this - a penny stock or junk bond? My understanding is it's all about yield - if you can make 150% ROI, who cares if it's Chia Pets or whatever? Also, I don't see how entry/exit is easier, considering bitcoin is hardly regulated at all?

Quote from: Xosihc on April 16, 2013, 02:52:26 PM

I am NOT trying to flip a quick buck.

...well then you can't be much of a Wall Street guy!

Well by entry/exit I just mean it's actually pretty difficult to get in and out of bitcoins. All this "instant transfer" that people preach is semi-bs in my opinion. The number 1 thing I see in the btc-e chat room is: "how can I get money into this". People still don't seem to have an answer for an easy way to transfer in/out.

haha well I take that back... OF COURSE i'm trying to make money. We all are. If someone said they weren't - they are lying.

I guess what I mean was - I'm not JUST in this for the $. I actually think bitcoins could be the future of commerce worldwide - and even if they don't take over the world, it's a really cool idea. I should have said; making money isn't the only reason I'm here.

Luckybit

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Quote from: Xosihc on April 16, 2013, 03:49:19 PM

Quote from: nobbynobbynoob on April 16, 2013, 03:39:17 PM

I agree, along with YouTuber "Bitcoin Bull", that it is unlikely Wall St or Big Finance played much rôle in the recent bitcoin bubble. If they dumped in serious money, they could've made it a real bubble - think four- or five-figure prices - and then crashed it back for fun. But that'd be like whales splashing about in duck ponds, and it doesn't really happen, does it?

Well if i were a betting man (which I am) I'd bet wallstreet does do this all the time in the "real" markets (granted this is illegal)...

You got to think scalability... It was easy to turn $500, $1000, or even $10,000 into 2x, 3x, even 10x that amount with bitcoins. If the "big boys" of wallstreet wanted to influence our market they would be looking to double $10 million, $15 million, truthfully it's usually $billions of dollars and the market cap for bitcoins just couldn't support that kind of move.

I just don't think bit finance cares that much about doubling $50,000 with bitcoins.

It doesn't change the fact that it only takes a few guys to do it, not "big finance" but just a few day traders with algorithms.

meangreen

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i have since calmed down Grin

KarlChappe

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Quote from: Birdy on April 17, 2013, 06:58:22 AM

I also think 3D printing is going to be a really big thing. But I don't know what I could do with that knowledge.
(not like I have sums to invest anyway)
In 10 years I can show people this post and say "See!? I was right!" :p

You can start a blog and explain everything about 3D printing. What is 3D printing? What you can do with 3D printing? What do you need? Where you can get what you need? And in 10 years, you could be big. You could be a reference about it, you could earn a bit of money and invest on the right player because you will know everything about 3D printing et cetera.

Of course, this is a lot of work and need passion about it. But money is not an excuse.

Nobody cares you were right, only what you do count.

Sorry for that, I'm drunk but I think what I tell you.

Birdy

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

I also think 3D printing is going to be a really big thing. But I don't know what I could do with that knowledge.
(not like I have sums to invest anyway)
In 10 years I can show people this post and say "See!? I was right!" :p

ex-trader

sr. member

Activity: 298

Merit: 250

Quote from: Xosihc on April 16, 2013, 02:52:26 PM

Part in this is because the average age of a wallstreet employee is 62.

Really - not my experience. I'd say average age was 10-20 years lower than that. Few people make it to 62.

abbyd

full member

Activity: 159

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Thanks for weighing in with a "Wall Street perspective".

Quote from: Xosihc on April 16, 2013, 02:52:26 PM

The reality is, bitcoins act like a thinly traded penny stock. If a hedge fund manager really wanted to do a pump and dump, they would just use a small stock. The entry/exit is 1000000x easier than bitcoins.

But if a Wall Street guy is looking for a quick arbitrage or pump and dump, don't they look for precisely this - a penny stock or junk bond? My understanding is it's all about yield - if you can make 150% ROI, who cares if it's Chia Pets or whatever? Also, I don't see how entry/exit is easier, considering bitcoin is hardly regulated at all?

Quote from: Xosihc on April 16, 2013, 02:52:26 PM

I am NOT trying to flip a quick buck.

...well then you can't be much of a Wall Street guy!

KarlChappe

member

Activity: 155

Merit: 10

Quote from: leemar on April 16, 2013, 04:31:52 PM

Not to dismiss this but even on a perfect 200$ move that is only 9 million, daily forex market is 5 Trillion dollars!

This is a lot of money for some organizations.
I didn't say it is wallstreet, it could be a small hedge funds or some rich/mafia guys from russia.

It is easier for these organizations to manipulate a small, irregulated and illiquid market as Bitcoin than Fx.

leemar

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Not to dismiss this but even on a perfect 200$ move that is only 9 million, daily forex market is 5 Trillion dollars!

KarlChappe

member

Activity: 155

Merit: 10

You must know there is bitcoin futures platform, right?

Someone told me that a put has been made for 45 000 BTC in April.

I'm not an expert in this field, but we're not talking about $100K here, they have made millions with the crash.

leemar

full member

Activity: 193

Merit: 100

Quote from: Xosihc on April 16, 2013, 03:49:19 PM

Quote from: nobbynobbynoob on April 16, 2013, 03:39:17 PM

I agree, along with YouTuber "Bitcoin Bull", that it is unlikely Wall St or Big Finance played much rôle in the recent bitcoin bubble. If they dumped in serious money, they could've made it a real bubble - think four- or five-figure prices - and then crashed it back for fun. But that'd be like whales splashing about in duck ponds, and it doesn't really happen, does it?

Well if i were a betting man (which I am) I'd bet wallstreet does do this all the time in the "real" markets (granted this is illegal)...

You got to think scalability... It was easy to turn $500, $1000, or even $10,000 into 2x, 3x, even 10x that amount with bitcoins. If the "big boys" of wallstreet wanted to influence our market they would be looking to double $10 million, $15 million, truthfully it's usually $billions of dollars and the market cap for bitcoins just couldn't support that kind of move.

I just don't think bit finance cares that much about doubling $50,000 with bitcoins.

precisely

Topic: A message from Wallstreet (Read 3372 times)