A question about AML KYC - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

UserU

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Quote from: Ryutaro on March 12, 2020, 03:23:55 PM

basically what KYC does is destroying our privacy and security. All that has been done all these years to strengthen our privacy from creating personal accounts to adding secret message, phone verification, 2FA authentification, biometric data... all that can be undone, simply because hackers have succeeded into stealing KYC materials from these exchange and hackers can use that to do all kind of bad things (reset your accounts, impersonate your identity...).

It really sounds like an oxymoron. Just like how Bitcoin is meant to be anonymous but authorities are trying to regulate it.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: bithisach on March 12, 2020, 04:03:56 PM

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on March 11, 2020, 10:52:10 AM

I think it's pretty clear that KYC defeats the whole purpose of bitcoin/crypto. It makes no sense to sacrifice your identity to use something pseudonymous.

Also, we have many decentralized/P2P platforms as alternatives...

Trading fiat? LocalCryptos/BISQ
Alts? See this list.
etc.

Sadly, people don't look at these options simply because they're not as convenient and fast as the centralized exchanges.

While I agree that KYC defeats the purpose of crypto - It's a compromise that these platforms have decided we need to make if we want to enjoy their services. Think of it this way, the GOV asks for exchanges to be compliant or to get out of their jurisdiction. Reasons why some platforms prefer certain jurisdiction is, well, up to each platform. So they acquire their legislations and implement them on the platform. You don't want to give KYC? They you probably are best off looking for a P2P alternative albeit keep in mind that rates usually suck for FIAT pairs on P2P platforms (at least in my experience), what I'd suggest is either go full crypto that you don't need FIAT for anything else in your life (hard at the moment) or go out and VOTE so that your government faces the truth that we don't like being spied on. It's hardly the platform's fault, rather, the governments.

It's not a compromise. It's their way to monitor you. We should make an effort to push them back by actually using decentralized solutions like BISQ. Make it a social movement.

bithisach

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on March 11, 2020, 10:52:10 AM

I think it's pretty clear that KYC defeats the whole purpose of bitcoin/crypto. It makes no sense to sacrifice your identity to use something pseudonymous.

Also, we have many decentralized/P2P platforms as alternatives...

Trading fiat? LocalCryptos/BISQ
Alts? See this list.
etc.

Sadly, people don't look at these options simply because they're not as convenient and fast as the centralized exchanges.

While I agree that KYC defeats the purpose of crypto - It's a compromise that these platforms have decided we need to make if we want to enjoy their services. Think of it this way, the GOV asks for exchanges to be compliant or to get out of their jurisdiction. Reasons why some platforms prefer certain jurisdiction is, well, up to each platform. So they acquire their legislations and implement them on the platform. You don't want to give KYC? They you probably are best off looking for a P2P alternative albeit keep in mind that rates usually suck for FIAT pairs on P2P platforms (at least in my experience), what I'd suggest is either go full crypto that you don't need FIAT for anything else in your life (hard at the moment) or go out and VOTE so that your government faces the truth that we don't like being spied on. It's hardly the platform's fault, rather, the governments.

Ryutaro

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basically what KYC does is destroying our privacy and security. All that has been done all these years to strengthen our privacy from creating personal accounts to adding secret message, phone verification, 2FA authentification, biometric data... all that can be undone, simply because hackers have succeeded into stealing KYC materials from these exchange and hackers can use that to do all kind of bad things (reset your accounts, impersonate your identity...).

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Quote from: Coin-Keeper on March 12, 2020, 02:04:33 PM

I don't think you will find many members here that are in love with KYC/AML. I am glad to have acquired most of my BTC long before this issue became a thing. For now when I need to use/spend I simply use an exchange and convert BTC to XMR.

Any offramp to fiat will require KYC at some point, unless you're comfortable using P2P exchanges like Hodlhodl.

Coin-Keeper

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I don't think you will find many members here that are in love with KYC/AML. I am glad to have acquired most of my BTC long before this issue became a thing. For now when I need to use/spend I simply use an exchange and convert BTC to XMR.

Linkkoin

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Quote from: Mttewndew on March 12, 2020, 10:14:42 AM

As far as I know, they often refer to their KYC/AML policy, which describes the cases when a transaction may seem suspicious.

The AMLP rules from eg. European directives and FATF guidelines use such forms without further specification "transaction showing unusual patterns", "without clear economic purpose", and often as well all of the transactions of at least $1000 each (but technically as well few transactions for $1000 in total over a short period of time count). The rules are not 100% clear but considering the guidelines spirit it simply requires companies to be suspicious towards their customers, especially if they use VPN services.

Mttewndew

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Quote from: Ucy on March 12, 2020, 01:38:24 AM

Quote

or simply register with any email, but knowing that you might be one of the 0.1% and might be asked to confirm your identity (as it is now with Changelly)?

This ^ is interesting
I wonder how they determine who should do the kyc. Who knows the amount of data at their disposal. I will be a bit careful with this.

I honestly prefer a Crypto-friendly kyc model. No one should see or have access to my sensitive information. This is to avoid misuse and it getting hacked. I think the community should probably decide on what model is safe for them if using kyc becomes necessary

As far as I know, they often refer to their KYC/AML policy, which describes the cases when a transaction may seem suspicious. Still not ok for me as an adherent of anonymity, but the chances are quite low, so... I just remember me pissing off at Shapeshift who asked for my id even before I looked closer at their service. Binance goes to the same list.
My point is - I can understand the reasons why people on the forum may not trust Changelly and other services who may require your id in some cases, but I see no value in getting small amount of random people's personal data. If companies like changelly would be selling user's data, they'd make the whole KYC procedure obligatory.

enhu

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Is Digitex not asking for KYC?

I don't see any exchange today that doesn't ask KYC anymore. It wouldn't stop laundering though because they still can getaway with it by using the data of someone else. Anyone can simply scan documents of a person and submit it to the exchanges and they are already good to go.

buwaytress

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Yeah, I'm honestly also at odds here with how I perceive my privacy and personal data. On one hand, I think we should all guard our information as much as we can, but on the other, I also think we have a responsibility, as a business, not to help facilitate criminal activity. And this goes beyond just tax evasion, but terrorist financing etc.

So my compromise is, if I have to use a financial service, then I'll abide by the laws. So I'm verified, fully, at the exchange I depend on a lot for fiat exchange. But if I can, and I actively seek this out, use bitcoin itself to pay for things, I would. And there, I don't need anyone to tell me I have to KYC.

xvids

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To be honest I don't really like the KYC but if it would help a lot to solve some problems then why not.
The only problem that I see is that there are so many people who could cheat the KYC process.
I like crypto because of it's anonymity but I guess there would always be a problem regarding to the anonymity and illegal use of crypto that is why KYC is being implemented.

The Cryptovator

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Sound of KYC and anonymity is conflicting. I am not big fan of KYC procedure. I don't know exactly what is the goal of KYC. As they mention about money laundering but I can't see much connection with KYC & money laundering. And unfortunately most of big volume exchanges are requiring KYC. So since trading there quite good from decentralized exchange traders are forced to submit KYC even they do not like it. To be honest this wasn't the goal of Bitcoin or cryptocurrency's.

Wind_FURY

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OP, I hate KYC, and have been recommending the use of BISQ, and other centralized services that don't have, or have minimum KYC, https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/list-of-p2pno-kyc-exchanges-5180421

Never say that you have no choice, because there's a choice. BISQ. Sometimes giving worse rates, but that's the price of no-KYC.

Ozero

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In the current situation, in order for the cryptocurrency to be able to further develop, KYC verification in strictly stipulated cases is necessary. We already see to what level of fraud the absence of any rules in the cryptocurrency market led to. In addition, states will be forced to prohibit the circulation of cryptocurrency on their territory if it uncontrollably contributes to the financing of terrorism and other crimes due to its relative anonymity. Therefore, for legal entities, in some cases, licensing for working with cryptocurrency should be introduced, and the KYC check should be applied exclusively to large amounts of transactions.

Ucy

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Why use the current kyc model in a space that is full of people who privacy/anonymity conscious? Those who believe in the current kyc should probably get their customers from people who are OK with it. The customers will most likely be made mostly of people who are somewhat desperate, don't know why they are here nor understand what Cryptocurrency is about.

Quote

or simply register with any email, but knowing that you might be one of the 0.1% and might be asked to confirm your identity (as it is now with Changelly)?

This ^ is interesting
I wonder how they determine who should do the kyc. Who knows the amount of data at their disposal. I will be a bit careful with this.

I honestly prefer a Crypto-friendly kyc model. No one should see or have access to my sensitive information. This is to avoid misuse and it getting hacked. I think the community should probably decide on what model is safe for them if using kyc becomes necessary

davis196

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Quote from: Mttewndew on March 11, 2020, 10:36:04 AM

The CEO of Digitex exchange Adam Todd decided to publicly oppose the KYC system, believing that this system only repels customers from the service and destroys the business. I myself am not a big fan of KYC, but it is definitely not without meaning and helps to prevent laundering and so on. I wonder what goals he can actually pursue by making such a decision.

What do you think about KYC and its appropriateness? Do you separate KYC by the types? Like going through KYC to just get the access to exchange platform (as it is now with Shapeshift), or simply register with any email, but knowing that you might be one of the 0.1% and might be asked to confirm your identity (as it is now with Changelly)?

It's a myth that KYC helps prevent money laundering.Do you know how easy it is to get the personal data of someone else,if you are a hacker or criminal?You could pay some poor homeless man to give you his ID for a while,you could hack some PC and get all the personal info.How can a crypto exchange platform prove that you are submitting your own ID card?KYC really repels customers and stops mass cryptocurrency adoption.Government clerks should try to find a better regulation that replaces the "know-your-customer" policy.

senin

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In some cases, KYC verification when working with cryptocurrency is necessary. However, they began to demand it from us for any reason and for any transaction amounts, and this caused people to sharply reject it as a necessary procedure in some cases.
In addition, they began to introduce it too early, before the subjects, procedure and conditions of its implementation were regulated at the legislative level. Therefore, unknown teams of ICO projects, without registering themselves anywhere and often being scammers themselves, collected our confidential information and then sold it on the Internet. Of course, nobody will like it.
Considering that the states will license this type of activity in some cases for legal entities, and the KYC check will be carried out only for transactions over one thousand euros, according to the FATF recommendations of June 21 last year, in these cases KYC will be appropriate.

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Quote from: Linkkoin on March 11, 2020, 12:33:22 PM

more and more things are subject to KYC. ~ cryptocurrency exchanges.

this is only the case when people go to "centralized places" to exchange a "decentralized thing". otherwise cryptocurrency trading is never going to require KYC specifically when you are exchanging cryptocurrency with cryptocurrency instead of with fiat.
check out the real decentralized exchanges and see how the lack of KYC looks like.

Darker45

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Quote from: Mttewndew on March 11, 2020, 10:36:04 AM

The CEO of Digitex exchange Adam Todd decided to publicly oppose the KYC system, believing that this system only repels customers from the service and destroys the business. I myself am not a big fan of KYC, but it is definitely not without meaning and helps to prevent laundering and so on. I wonder what goals he can actually pursue by making such a decision.

What do you think about KYC and its appropriateness? Do you separate KYC by the types? Like going through KYC to just get the access to exchange platform (as it is now with Shapeshift), or simply register with any email, but knowing that you might be one of the 0.1% and might be asked to confirm your identity (as it is now with Changelly)?

I don't like KYC. It is even an understatement. I actually hate KYC. I agree that KYC requirements significantly repel customers from certain services. And if that happens, the business is indeed affected. Try putting up a sports betting site or online crypto casino with KYC and I am more than sure that it will be lagging behind its competitors that do not ask KYC from its users, if they don't die shortly after launching. In case of exchanges, it has unfortunately become a norm that they ask for KYC, as per legal requirements. But this is only due to the fact that centralized exchanges are the main thing for now. Sooner or later, when decentralized exchanges will take over, KYC will become a thing of the past.

Money laundering is not prevented by KYC. If a certain user is enrolling an account because he/she has something to launder, do you think he/she will provide his/her real personal information? He/she must be a foolish launderer if he/she does that.

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Quote from: btcholder on March 11, 2020, 03:01:31 PM

No one in this forum support kyc system. People don't wanna be a puppet anymore to the government or the bank. And crypto currency is the best solution for that. It's sad that some upcoming projects and popular exchanges want kyc for transaction (big amount).

No one support but a lot has been under to it. I dont much prefer giving off personal details so I only did some KYC on some trusted exchange which Im sure they arent 100% but only few centralized exchanges with volume are appealing for me. Yes dex isnt one of them but in terms of trading we cant rely much on it. So there is really big arguement with this topic. It has both advantage and disadvantage, its just a matter of preference for everybody how they will take this topic on hand.

Quote from: zulfi125 on March 11, 2020, 05:32:53 PM

KYC purpose is preventing of funds for money launder, and you will see every exchange will require KYC instead of DEX.

One advantage Im seeing but this isnt always the case for every exchange. Some have evil agenda for Thieving and Scamming so pick wise which one youve gonna share your info.

Topic: A question about AML KYC - page 2. (Read 513 times)