Topic: A Resource Based Economy - page 8. (Read 288303 times)
Everyone will die under capitalism. It will spare no one.
And so what? I hope you won't blame the Russian tsar Nicholas II (and his predecessors) in sympathy toward communism? The tsarist Russia had been even more underdeveloped and backward country than the Soviet Union circa 1940 with famines and all those things you mentioned...
Now tell me that it is communism that should be held responsible for the overall backwardness of the tsarist Russia
Yes and it all worked fine in feudalism, at least it wasn't a tyrrany, it wasnt good ,and i`m not defending feudalism, but it was better than communism.
Not to mention that the bolsheviks have artificially reorganized society, and tried to turn an agricultural society into an industrial one in just a few decades, disregarding totally the consequences.
Of course such radical change, which is not even efficient at it's core, will cause mass suffering.
So I wonder if we were to ever implement this Venus project, and change the private property system into this communist 2.0 system in a few decades, how many billions of people will die as a result?
This has nothing to do with communism. The post-WWII Soviet Union had an economic system which is properly called state capitalism. It was inefficient, and lost the competition to the West, just like any other capitalist enterprise out there can lose to its competitors in the open market...
This is not to say that communism as an economic system is efficient or state capitalism cannot be efficient by definition (see China)
This is not to say that communism as an economic system is efficient or state capitalism cannot be efficient by definition (see China)
As if Pre-war Soviet Union was a utopia?
What are you going to prove exactly?
It's not irrelevant bullshit, farming in the soviet union, atleast in the pre Stalin era was done in local communities, called communes
And so what? I hope you won't blame the Russian tsar Nicholas II (and his predecessors) in sympathy toward communism? The tsarist Russia had been even more underdeveloped and backward country than the Soviet Union circa 1940 with famines and all those things you mentioned...
Now tell me that it is communism that should be held responsible for the overall backwardness of the tsarist Russia
This has nothing to do with communism. The post-WWII Soviet Union had an economic system which is properly called state capitalism. It was inefficient, and lost the competition to the West, just like any other capitalist enterprise out there can lose to its competitors in the open market...
This is not to say that communism as an economic system is efficient or state capitalism cannot be efficient by definition (see China)
This is not to say that communism as an economic system is efficient or state capitalism cannot be efficient by definition (see China)
As if Pre-war Soviet Union was a utopia?
What are you going to prove exactly?
It's not irrelevant bullshit, farming in the soviet union, atleast in the pre Stalin era was done in local communities, called communes.
The communes were self-sufficient with local governance model (as close to direct democracy as you can get). "Soviet" means council, and there were local councils, comissions, comissioners for every aspect of governance. They were elected by the party or by the local residents.
Either way it was directly controlled by the local populace. This was in the early days, and it still led to famine.
So dont give me this "state capitalism" agrument because that is just an excuse to paint communism in a good image. It grew to that as the party members realized that the population was dumb, and this community approach was flawed, and started centralizing power into Moscow.
So the community governance model was flawed and innefficient, and the centralized communist dictatorship model was tyrranical, and the first caused the latter.
Both inspired by Marx and the communist manifesto.
Therefore, the entire communist ideology as it is, is flawed, stupid, irrational and inneficient. You can't isolate 1 part of it that you like and point at it that it's different, because it's not.
This has nothing to do with communism. The post-WWII Soviet Union had an economic system which is properly called state capitalism. It was inefficient, and lost the competition to the West, just like any other capitalist enterprise out there can lose to its competitors in the open market...
This is not to say that communism as an economic system is efficient or state capitalism cannot be efficient by definition (see China)
This is not to say that communism as an economic system is efficient or state capitalism cannot be efficient by definition (see China)
As if Pre-war Soviet Union was a utopia?
What are you going to prove to me exactly? That Soviet style capitalism (state capitalism) has lost to Western style capitalism (free market capitalism)?
I know that even without your "help"
This has nothing to do with communism. The post-WWII Soviet Union had an economic system which is properly called state capitalism. It was inefficient, and lost the competition to the West, just like any other capitalist enterprise out there can lose to its competitors in the open market...
This is not to say that communism as an economic system is efficient or state capitalism cannot be efficient by definition (see China)
As if Pre-war Soviet Union was a utopia?
What about the famines caused by inneficient farming?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_and_famines_in_Russia_and_the_Soviet_Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Kazakhstan_of_1932%E2%80%9333
How's that collective farming working out? You know that right now agriculture is done by less than 1% of the population, because we can use efficient farming techniques like pesticide, combine harvesters and irrigation systems.
They were still using horses and cows with plows when the tractor already came out.
Sure they industrialized themselves but at what expense? Millions starved to death becase they reorganized the farmlands by a stupid ideology.
If they had let the people own their own farms, it would have been much better.
But what does that prove?
It proves that you don't check your so-called "facts" before posting. In other words, that you post bullshit, for the most part, get it?
And probably the assembly process was a cheap lower quality one than the one produced in the west
In short, you just don't know
Read here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_plan
The GDP of the Soviet union was very small (and mostly faked) that proves my point. Yes the soviet style manufacturing is inneficient, if that answers your question
This has nothing to do with communism. The post-WWII Soviet Union had an economic system which is properly called state capitalism. It was inefficient, and lost the competition to the West, just like any other capitalist enterprise out there can lose to its competitors in the open market...
This is not to say that communism as an economic system is efficient or state capitalism cannot be efficient by definition (see China)
But what does that prove?
It proves that you don't check your so-called "facts" before posting. In other words, that you post bullshit, for the most part, get it?
And probably the assembly process was a cheap lower quality one than the one produced in the west
In short, you just don't know
Read here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_plan
The GDP of the Soviet union was very small (and mostly faked) that proves my point. Yes the soviet style manufacturing is inneficient, if that answers your question.
There is no price discovery, there is no individual risk, there is no market, in short there is no economy.
Just a giant waste of resources. All the factories, all the capital, is now gone and the 70 years of suffering under communism has left nothing but regrets.
But now the western hippies want to bring back communism. How foolish they are.
But what does that prove?
It proves that you don't check your so-called "facts" before posting. In other words, that you post bullshit, for the most part, get it?
And probably the assembly process was a cheap lower quality one than the one produced in the west
In short, you just don't know
Well, you'd better have known that the shitty communist car on the photo (namely, Lada 2102) was a licensed version of Fiat 124 Familiare...
Ok I`m not a big car fan, but there were other worse brands as well.
But what does that prove? They couldnt even make their own cars, they had to buy the blueprints from the private manufacturers.
And probably the assembly process was a cheap lower quality one than the one produced in the west.
Balance with our enviroment like the soviet factories that have polluted the earth for decades? Or the shitty communist cars that released very carcinogen gases from their exhaustion pipe (didnt even had proper filtering system)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Lada_Riva_estate_Cambridge.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Lada_Riva_estate_Cambridge.jpg
Well, you'd better have known that the shitty communist car on the photo (namely, Lada 2102) is a licensed version of Fiat 124 Familiare...
Find the difference
You complain about the historical actions of tyrants but neglect to understand the tremendous suffering, death and destruction wrought by the modern monetary system and the inevitable global consequences of our insane over consumption and pollution, incentivized by the profit motive. If you cared about humans, you'd care about learning how we can live in peace and balance with our environment.
Well show me only 1 socialist/communist society that didnt ended in genocide and mass suffering?
As wasteful capitalism is (and becomes less wasteful year-after-year), it is the best system, because everything else is unsustainable and causes millions of people to die.
Balance with our enviroment like the soviet factories that have polluted the earth for decades? Or the shitty communist cars that released very carcinogen gases from their exhaustion pipe (didnt even had proper filtering system)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Lada_Riva_estate_Cambridge.jpg
Or the Chernobyl nuclear radiation that was censored and silenced by the comrades and children were playing near the radiated land without them or their parents knowing what was going on. They all got horrible cancers later on and many died as children.
It's truly sickening how evil these communists were.
Cars are becoming more and more efficient, in the private auto manufacturing industry, the hybrid car technology is a big breakthrough,and we might even see fully electric cars soon.
None of that would have happened under soviet rule comrade
You complain about the historical actions of tyrants but neglect to understand the tremendous suffering, death and destruction wrought by the modern monetary system and the inevitable global consequences of our insane over consumption and pollution, incentivized by the profit motive. If you cared about humans, you'd care about learning how we can live in peace and balance with our environment
No pants and diapers - let'em crap in the woods like nature intended, right?
It would be unsustainable given human population and density. There are technical solutions to such common human problems. We need only choose to pursue them.
In other words (reverse logic applied), the given level of human population and density as well as the standards of living thereof require that we necessarily change the environment, right?
So we are stuck between the upper and the nether millstone
You complain about the historical actions of tyrants but neglect to understand the tremendous suffering, death and destruction wrought by the modern monetary system and the inevitable global consequences of our insane over consumption and pollution, incentivized by the profit motive. If you cared about humans, you'd care about learning how we can live in peace and balance with our environment
No pants and diapers - let'em crap in the woods like nature intended, right?
It would be unsustainable given human population and density. There are technical solutions to such common human problems. We need only choose to pursue them.
You complain about the historical actions of tyrants but neglect to understand the tremendous suffering, death and destruction wrought by the modern monetary system and the inevitable global consequences of our insane over consumption and pollution, incentivized by the profit motive. If you cared about humans, you'd care about learning how we can live in peace and balance with our environment
No pants and diapers - let'em crap in the woods like nature intended, right?
Greetings,
I was very excited to learn about the Bitcoin currency several months ago, and I am very pleased to see it growing. I am part of an organization called the Zeitgeist Movement, who advocates a resource based economy. We are interested in seeing a radical redesign of society and an associated shift in values. We understand that the major cause of human suffering today is the current monetary system and the warped values and corrupt behavior inherent in its implementation. We know that we can provide food, water, shelter and a highly technological life style to every one on the planet if we chose to do so. What generally prevents us from doing so is the idea of money, which paralyzes us as a society, in terms of technological advancement, quality of education and healthcare, and a sick culture that encourages us to be competitive and cruel to our fellow human beings.
Knowing and understanding the underlying mechanics of a monetary system is fundamental to not being abused by it. Currently, the vast majority of people are unaware of the destructive and unfair nature of our current fractional reserve banking system, and that makes them vulnerable to all the abuses we see today. Poverty, war, crime and hunger are the result of inequitable economic practices, and will not significantly change until we end or significantly alter our subservience to this and associated institutions. I believe Bitcoin would make for an ideal transition currency until a full RBE can be implemented.
An RBE is basically the realization that there are no arbitrary restrictions on reality. Being bound to the imaginary rules of a monetary game, we limit how much we can accomplish and provide for each other. If we declared all of the earth's resources as common heritage for all the world's people, and used the methods of science to construct and provide all of life's necessities for all people, then there would be considerable reduction in hunger, crime, war and poverty, not to mention unnecessary suffering due to lack of access of medical care or inadequate educational opportunities. If people were given all that were necessary to survive, they could devote themselves to the benefit of all man kind. These would be the values of a resource based economy, not the competitive and acquisitive value based behavior we see today.
I encourage you to learn more about these ideas if they interest you. I hope to support the bitcoin system as long as I am able, and I hope to see it become a dominant and thriving ecosystem in the months and years to come. Thank you for your time and attention.
I was very excited to learn about the Bitcoin currency several months ago, and I am very pleased to see it growing. I am part of an organization called the Zeitgeist Movement, who advocates a resource based economy. We are interested in seeing a radical redesign of society and an associated shift in values. We understand that the major cause of human suffering today is the current monetary system and the warped values and corrupt behavior inherent in its implementation. We know that we can provide food, water, shelter and a highly technological life style to every one on the planet if we chose to do so. What generally prevents us from doing so is the idea of money, which paralyzes us as a society, in terms of technological advancement, quality of education and healthcare, and a sick culture that encourages us to be competitive and cruel to our fellow human beings.
Knowing and understanding the underlying mechanics of a monetary system is fundamental to not being abused by it. Currently, the vast majority of people are unaware of the destructive and unfair nature of our current fractional reserve banking system, and that makes them vulnerable to all the abuses we see today. Poverty, war, crime and hunger are the result of inequitable economic practices, and will not significantly change until we end or significantly alter our subservience to this and associated institutions. I believe Bitcoin would make for an ideal transition currency until a full RBE can be implemented.
An RBE is basically the realization that there are no arbitrary restrictions on reality. Being bound to the imaginary rules of a monetary game, we limit how much we can accomplish and provide for each other. If we declared all of the earth's resources as common heritage for all the world's people, and used the methods of science to construct and provide all of life's necessities for all people, then there would be considerable reduction in hunger, crime, war and poverty, not to mention unnecessary suffering due to lack of access of medical care or inadequate educational opportunities. If people were given all that were necessary to survive, they could devote themselves to the benefit of all man kind. These would be the values of a resource based economy, not the competitive and acquisitive value based behavior we see today.
I encourage you to learn more about these ideas if they interest you. I hope to support the bitcoin system as long as I am able, and I hope to see it become a dominant and thriving ecosystem in the months and years to come. Thank you for your time and attention.
The idea was great and the movement has nice attitude in uplifting those principles. But there is a loophole that must be solve. Monetary system is a good system what makes it problematic are the people running it. Even if bitcoin will replace fiat currency as long as peoples attitude will not change the it is still problematic.
You complain about the historical actions of tyrants but neglect to understand the tremendous suffering, death and destruction wrought by the modern monetary system and the inevitable global consequences of our insane over consumption and pollution, incentivized by the profit motive. If you cared about humans, you'd care about learning how we can live in peace and balance with our environment.
Damn the only thing communists are doing is murdering countless people without remorse, and they dont even realize how evil they are
I understand your disgust for communism in general and communists in particular and may even share this disgust with you myself (to a degree), but in all fairness, this feature (i.e. murdering countless people) is neither their invention nor they are the only ones who practice insensate and ruthless cruelty towards their opponents or just skeptics and doubters...
All fanatics share the same quality of intolerance in respect to anything which is different from their views or beliefs
Genocide is the logical conclusion of communism, everyone with half a brain should understand that.
Reorganizing society radically, where the natural incentives of humans (greed,hoarding, private property) are flipped upside-down never ends well.
It is a stupid irrational theory in thought, that is unimaginably cruel in practice.
Every irrational belief ends in suffering in practice (crusades, inquisition, religious wars,communism , native tribes sacrificing people, cannibalism,etc)
Damn the only thing communists are doing is murdering countless people without remorse, and they dont even realize how evil they are
I understand your disgust for communism in general and communists in particular and may even share this disgust with you myself (to a degree), but in all fairness, this feature (i.e. murdering countless people) is neither their invention nor they are the only ones who practice insensate and ruthless cruelty towards their opponents or just skeptics and doubters...
All fanatics share the same quality of intolerance in respect to anything which is different from their views or beliefs
Though this doesn't change a thing since any economy is "resource based" by definition. And even your grandpa dying in gulag couldn't change that (feel sorry for him)
I think you messed up the quotings
That guy has been caught copy-pasting other users posts made years ago. The post you replied to was composed from the two posts made in 2011. He fell down so deep that he started copying even my posts (in another thread), lol, and after that he got kicked from the sig campaign he had been enrolled in...
That should serve him right
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