Topic: Abolish the Merit system and bounty threads (Read 633 times)

I agree with you. Merits are a very good criterion that separates the good from the bad posters on this forum.
If a member gets hundreds or thousands of merits on this forum, it means that his reputation on this forum is very good and that he has helped many forum members with his posts.
When merits were introduced I was skeptical about it, but now I think it was a very good idea because it prevented spammers from advancing on the forum without quality posts, just based on activity.
Of course, there are also older forum members, who got their rank before the introduction of merits, but that does not change the fact that merits helped to create some order on this forum and separate the good from the bad members.
Everyone can have a very high opinion of themselves, but in the end it is decided by the forum community in a very clear and transparent way, through the merit system.
I don't follow bounty threads, so I can't comment on that.

Why don't you report them instead of blaming the system ? It is like saying jails should be closed because there are people fooling the law.

No he hasn't earned any merit in the past 120 or even 150 days and only has 14 from @nutildah in this thread only as per his BPIP record so you can think how much valuable his posts have been and earned only 6 merits as at the time of merit system implementation he was senior member and now expressing his feelings about the system as he can't earn merits.

Sometimes, users just move on after reporting many posts and nothing seemed to have been done. I would do same too; just move on. Gradually, such users cease visiting those vexatious sections and before we say Jack, those sections become bereft of constructive posters. I think it's an admin thing to do. There should be a marching order that ought to institute standard there. Users can't continue to report to mods and nothing seemed to have been done.

Precisely (emphasis mine). If one comes across Trash, OT, or the "Low Quality Post" -- report it to the Mods - not just bitch about it elsewhere.. And um, been here since 2014 so... God only knows how many I've reported, I stopped looking at that stat long ago. I do know that >99% were 'accurate' and acted upon  

The way he addressed Charles-Tim and Rikafip was surprising to me. He considers himself to be a valuable poster on the forum with only 1 merit in 120 days while he is called bad to those whom merits are uncountable at a single glance. He failed to know that merits are given to the quality poster only and it is almost impossible to manipulate it with alts, without being noticed.

By the way, I am against those who want the merit system to be Abolished and also I am against those too who want bounties and signatures to be eliminated too. We can improve things without losing any of these.

While I wouldn't want to get into the merit stuff OP talked about because I think meriting posts is a subjective issue, I want to comment on the bounty thing. Yes, I support that bounty threads be moderated (not abolished, anyway). What goes on there is a complete eyesore. If other sections of this forum were like the altcoin section, this forum would've long gone down. The reason other crypto sites that imitated BTT haven't been surviving is the preponderance of spam posts which couldn't be moderated on those sites. When you allow people post trash, the genuine posters will leave. Again, I would love to see a time when all bounty reports will not be posted on thread topics but on Google sheets.

The fact that even those who joined 2018 until now didn't even take too long just to get hero rank or even legendary rank. I don't believe that all legendary or hero member bought merit online or sending merits from an alt account. As you can see, I joined the forum on 2018 and I was unlucky that implementation of merit is happening during that time. I thought I won't be able to increase my rank just by posting alone with no merits needed. I was once like you angry at the world (but not drunk) because of merit implemented in the forum but I didn't stop until reach this rank. If you think that you actually did contribute in discussions then better start contributing in the forum by posting in different board and see if you can reach 1k merits but you are right that many of the post are mainly because of hitting quotas but it's less compared before because of merit system.

It is hard to argue with that view because most of the posts being made in the forum generally are related to hitting quotas in order to earn signature campaign fees or bounties. If the OP had maintained some balance and composure he could probably have articulated those views in a more acceptable manner to the masses he might have managed to get more support behind his views.

Many of the posts in various threads across the forum are pure drivel. The forum has changed over the years I have known it and it is constantly changing but not for the better. I suppose this is something that will continue and no action will be taken in an attempt to halt the decline.

I don't think it's as laughable as It was used to be when the forum was run on yobit ads and users were able to rank up quickly to participate in the campaign and spam the sh*t out of the forum, you get my point now.


Before it took someone nonconstructive posts to reach legendary status without putting much effort into their posts in around 3 years but things are different now.


I agree with you to some degree but neither I can do anything about it. But I disagree with the point that it made the forum low quality.
I'm seeing quality posters are leveling up fast but users with not good in the English language will face a hurdle because those users will be limited to their local board and thus forum needs more merit for sub-forum.

You can gain activity easily by remaining active and making shit kind of posts also as every fortnight 14 points of activity is distributed among active members so you see it was not a big issue but the problem came when merit system was implemented for them as they can't rank up now with the low quality posts they were writing on the forum as you can can clearly see from his post history.Now he is trying to make some false statements and out of jealousy has started this thread but if he has focused on learning useful stuff over these years he would have ranked up easily by the time now.

He makes some good points. Nearly every reply in this thread for instance is drivel written purely for the sake of filling weekly post quotas. Everything of value that was once added to this forum is now buried under an insurmountable pile of shitposts. 95% of the forum is unnavigable and not worth reading. Most people posting in it only read it because they get paid to post here. For everyone else, it makes little sense to waste the time.


This is funny. I almost merited the same post he was trying to bring to your attention as it stuck out as informative amid the pile of usual b.s., but then I realized I don't care about Aptos. And not everyone is going to take the time to see if a post was copy/pasted from elsewhere. OP was simply trying to bring what they thought was a good post to your attention, yet you saw it as an attempt to "pump and dump shitcoins."  

 @stoat My question to you is I am providing proof why you could not change your rank. Because although you are my senior but I have to give proof.

Since you have been Inactive for a long time, you don't have many posts on the forum and I haven't seen any informative posts. And if there are no informative posts in the forum from the past and the activity is not applicable then the ranking will not change.

I assure you that you can understand the question yourself.












He has not joined the forum for a long time due to which he could not change his rank. But if you try hard enough and post informatively, you can solve your problem yourself.

None of the Legendary are less than a year old from registration, but you may find some users get 1000 merit in less than a year since they joined. That's something different because basically the merit system has pushed more users to post something quality regardless of whether they have other accounts.

You sleep too long, you need activities to earn merit and activity points so you can rank up. If in January 2018 you had 775 activity, then I don't think you would be this angry. But sadly you stopped for too long, and now you start blaming the system after more than a year since May 23, 2021, 07:59:27 AM You only have 7 posts till now.

But I'm surprised, Are you still angry about this?

Consider yourself as one of those to join them sooner as long as you're moving up with the ranking, also know that legendary rank is the last stage for now so consider everyone to arrived there after ranking up.


Though I can't argue this fact to an extent because it may be happening for real but have you considered the rate of those involved with those that still maintain their integrity to the forum, i don't think it's that easy after one would have been through many thick and thin huddles of the forum and in presenting something worthwhile to have gained enough merits upto legendary rank doing good will now decided to turn in for bad post or becomes a shitposter, does that mean all efforts rendered in the past were just wasted, a seriously minded individuals couldn't have done that, the account would have been inactive than posting shits after attaining legendary and if found doing that, no campaign will be willing to accept such user not even to talk of meriting the account.

I can accept that people used to follow for merits so they are doing something just for the sake of merits but nothing is perfect in this world so the introduction of merit system is serving its purpose, imagine how much legendaries will be now if there is no merit system being introduced including me because back then user only need activity which is simple to get just post something and increase your rank but now it becomes harder which stopped bots and spammers from growing to the great extent.

Just get used to it, this has been here for the purpose so yourself as a user has to adopt it or create your own.

The whole OP seems like it was written by a person who was drunk and angry at the world at the time.

Are you talking about all users who wear signatures or are you singling out only those that belong to altcoin campaigns? I would say it depends where you post and what you read. I don't see bounty hunter spammers in the sections I am active in, and that's in discussions about Bitcoin. I don't go near the altcoin boards anymore, and I agree with you that part of the forum is a disaster.     

Except it doesn't work that way. That's how it was in the past, before the merit system was introduced. You rose in rank just with posts and activity. But now you need to add merits in the mixture. And unless you contribute to the forum, you won't be earning merits.   

Not necessarily. It could also have meant that the person posted a big amount of posts but without any quality at all. Now, other people need to like and appreciate your contributions for you to rank up. Quantity alone won't get you far.

It takes more then a year to become legendary if you are active during every activity period. Try 2 years. You are a senior member because you weren't active enough in the old days to rank up when it was easier. And since the merit system was introduced, you are also lacking the needed merits.   

This has got nothing to do with your rank, the rank of others, or how the merit system works. What you are saying here is that the merit system doesn't work and it results in too many members ranking up too fast. So, do you think it's better to go back to the old ways when you didn't need any merits at all, and all you needed was a large enough post count that no one needed to read or appreciate in any way? Don't you see the lack of logic there? You want to get rid of a system where it's harder to rank up to reinstate one where it's easier to rank up, so that the forum would have less legendary members.

Am sorry,I know am not suppose to drop a comment here since am not as old as you are in the forum. A newbie can not become a legendary in a year time due to your activities. This forum is designed in a way that only legendary members are equal in rank,the only difference is the number of merit acquired by them.

From Newbie rank to Hero rank activities determines your upgrade to your next rank i.e how frequent you post and been active in the forum. For example, a member rank can have 502 merits based on his contributions and helping others out in the forum,this doesn't mean that he will become a Hero member before a Senior Member with 400 merits. The earlier you registered into the forum the more numbers of activities you have than some that came into the forum yesterday.

I will disagree with you way back 2015,Bitcoin was still spreading sluggishly and very few number of people have the knowledge compare to the number of people today. Most Newbies joining the forum today,already have a knowledge of Bitcoin before joining the forum,this will boost up their merit digits when assisting or sharing knowledge on bitcoin related issues. You might be old in a place but someone new can understand the way things is done there better than you because of his experience or research.

That summaries his whole point of creating this useless and baseless topic regarding merit system as he was not able to get some of it with shitcoin promotion and now due to jealous factor he is trying to express his thoughts on the whole system which don't make sense at all.

He has tried to benefit himself by offering his service only and writing one sentence as a post on altcoin discussion board and thinks he has contributed well enough but still not recognised over the forum but didn't look at his post history for once also.

Mate!!! I can see the reason why you are not yet a hero member talks of legendary. You'r not here to learn because you have known (well educated) and you don't want to educate people what you known from outside before coming to the forum. I believe there are two things every user does in the forum to earn merit to rank up. You learn what you don't know by probably asking of questions and also You educate users or people what you have learn. But like this I don't think you can climb up.
I came to this forum December last year and this Charles-Tim has educated and contributed a lot to my threads (questions and others) but you claim to be a old user, but I have not see you in any of my threads (post). What I am saying, you are not a serious user but here to accuse legendary member that why they are there and you are not there while you came before most of them remember a popular saying that "over taking is allowed", if you are not serious then those who are serious would over take you.

Please Charles-Tim is not a merit farmer go and check his post. He has won bonuses from his quality posts from the campaign he is. And he deserves to be a legendary member. Be a good post then you will see yourself soaring like an eagle. I have seen a member rank user that had 260 merits. Also look at this user https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/identifying-the-op-at-a-glance-smf-patch-5412983
Please remove blame game and be serious

@stoat made the argument without any evidence to support his feeling of what he experienced. I shown him data ^{that is not perfect} of forum activities exclusively spamming activities over the years but he did not want to absorb this information and keep continuing his non-sense complaint.

The drop of activities in the forum since 2018 is because of merit system (that destroy spammers, prevent them to rank up so that most of them stop spamming or leave the forum) and the bear market.

A quick look at his post history since the merit system kick off (December 2018) is mostly one- or two-lined posts and mostly in altcoin boards. I don't consider all of his posts are spam but most of them are not deserved to get merit.

Nowadays, most of spammers would do their jobs in Altcoin Bounties board. Fortunately the spam in global, international board is significant less than years ago.

If you see spam, report it to moderators who will handle it. The forum is clean with works from forum admins, moderators and community members, exclusively reporters.

Hmm.....
This man's risen from a long sleep -- sees himself to be some kinda old, knowledgeable guru-guy, who's done alot for the forum -- which without him, the forum would have been snatched or, prolly, ceased to exit -- he acted like a superhero, and bore the SHAME alone?! (so fuckin lame statement), and never got rewarded or celebrated. Look, you don't wanna Converse with an account below 2015 right? That's fine dude! give an answer to Loyces' question : what have you done? Sine you got registered 1855 right? Lmao
Seems You've gone away for too long and that have gotten your brains dampened; ohhh, spare me your self-righteous declarations -- that, with your intermediate mediocrities .....the same immediate problem that makes you think you deserved the position of a STAFF, right? Bagggaaaa!!!

Look, this man's just another troll; cus, is it anyone's fault that you're stuck in a trail-case corner? Com..on!! Yunno what users in your archaic regime did to make it to the top, right? so you decided to get you fat-ass trapped? Just so you could raise this crappy, futile plea??
Ohhhhh.......so you wanna feel the good, old days once more, when you could easily farm up accounts, without any aggressive scrutiny, right? Man, that's fucked up!!

Sandra 💇

To be fair, what I think tranthidung was disputing was specifically your assertion here, which you didn't provide evidence for either:

And if we're talking about the "99%" statement, I would only say that if that were true the forum would be nearly identical to Yobit's cryptotalk.org back when they were paying people to post on it.  True, I don't have any hard data either, but I read that forum now and again and I would have estimated (generously) that 1 in 100 posts wasn't of zero-value; the rest were exactly what you'd expect from the worst of bitcointalk's bounty hunting shitposters.

Yeah, could be.  I'm not sure which he's most upset about though, the yet-to-be-Legendary problem or the forum quality one.  And if he's really only here to spam (which somehow I doubt, given how long he's been a member and despite the inactive periods), the quality issue wouldn't even be a blip on his radar.

From the posts I'm going with they would be happier on AltCoin talk.

But beyond that since they are wearing a signature for a scam token. And they fully admitted after asking for a no collateral loan that they are just shilling and trolling.

https://archive.ph/QRwcQ

So I would figure this thread is just more trolling.
It is possible they do believe what they are saying, but I just don't see it.

-Dave

I'm pretty sure OP created this topic because I deleted his 2 posts from Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source.
This is why:

That's cute. Now tell me, what have you contributed to Bitcointalk?

So you are bitching about legendary accounts and making baseless accusations how they ranked up, while in the same you are time complaining how you didn't rank up while being inactive  

You contributed jack shit, with most of your posts being made in shitcoins and shitcoin speculation, you are basically inactive since 2020, and there is a chance your account changed hands.
Total of 34 posts made in Bitcoin discussion, and everything else is related to shitcoinery, that is around 1240 useless posts.

Should we really start digging up your useless posts, or you are the only one in this forum with useful posts  
Let's make you a king of the forum, and everyone else should be below you and without ranks, I think that would make you happy.
Your next suggestion is probably to stop using Bitcoin and switch to your fake frEeD0mReZerve...

No one would disagree with you if you would point out some by name, and quote some of their post with facts. I have seen a few too, same as you said who have been Legendary after the merit system is introduced but you can't say this for everyone. Maybe you got engaged with some of the spammers at a first impression.

I wasn't there but it was true until 2016/17 if I'm correct as at the beginning of 2018, merit system was introduced.

Not really possible. If someone abuses merit with a huge amount, it will definitely be noticed. And it's not that easy to buy merit I think as it has risk involved both financially and getting tagged if noticed.

Take it easy. Ignore people who spam in your eyes.

Yeah he is just having irrelevant discussion with no base and just trying to have some attention on the forum from users with this merit abolish agenda while he is trying himself to get some but all will went in vain.On the one hand he is saying to remove bounty threads and merits while trying to provide his service on forum and renting his signature with no reply so he is trying to gain some attention with these kind of posts.So ignore him if you can.

So what do you mean exactly by this statement? Like they have been favoured with those merits or you completely ignore the useful posts they have made on the forum on which they have got merits? They have attained the same rank after the merit system implementation so do you think it's easy to do so without making any contribution and have merits from sources on normal posts? Speaking about you then you have managed to gain only 6 merits that also in 2019 and 3 from @Pharamacist while your main posting area is altcoin discussion which don't have any merit worthy posts so how you see this fair one? We know what your intentions are exactly and your forum analysis is also not going up to the mark as there are members registered on the forum back in 2015 who are legendary now like LoyceV with 12340 merits so how you justify it? Stop this thing as it will not help you gain what you want.

Evidence lacking for "this information is not correct." statement

I am not sure what you experienced but I am sure this information is not correct.

According to data as well as the bear - bull cycle of cryptocurrency market, 2015 and 2016 is in a bear market that likely caused a drop of activities in the forum

• Time Series on monthly statistics of forum (new users, new topics, new posts)
• Forum's 2020-year-end report

I only quoted two charts here, if you want more details, please visit these topics and get more details.

From available data, fact is the forum was flooded with massive spam in 2017 and 2018 which is why forum members requested and theymos made a tough decision to launch the merit system and months late, adjust it to demote Junior members who can not earn at least 1 merit.

Chronological flow of improving post quality in the forum, reducing spam

• Ideas for improving post quality?
• Two new no-signature boards
• Rules for Serious Discussion and Ivory Tower
• Merit & new rank requirements
• Enhanced newbie restrictions & requirements

In the past, without merit system, every member can become a legendary member. They just need enough time and activity point to get the Legendary member rank. It's easy honestly and many grandfather Legendary members are spammers.

That is technically not possible due to activity requirements making the rank happen after 2-3 years.

Rank has never really meant anything to me, as I can instantly detect the kind of person writing a message just by looking at a few messages (spammer? Technically gifted person? Researcher? Newbie? Etc...)

I detect an overriding sense of jealousy here, apart from the legitimate complaints you have (and you do have some).  If you've been here since 2014, it's obvious why you haven't reached Legendary yet, i.e., you just didn't post enough before the merit system was implemented.  I know you know that, so I'm not sure why you brought it up--though again, I think it's jealousy and/or a feeling of being left behind because of your own inaction.

I'm not sure I entirely agree with you that there are too many Legendary members, but the prestige of that rank has definitely lost a lot of what made it such a thing to shoot for.  On the other hand, for the vast majority of newcomers it's still nearly unattainable.  It'd be nice if Theymos added at least one more rank if not several, but he doesn't seem inclined to do that, so there's not much the community can do.

The state of the forum is truly bad, but I'd say only in certain sections and only if you're not using your ignore list to alleviate some of the frustration.  But I'd also argue that (at least for me) I find it much more tolerable than it was prior to the merit system.  You remember what it was like back then, hopefully.  There were so many blatant account farmers spread out through so many sections it was unreal, and they were the lowest kind of shitposters imaginable.  Right now the quality isn't even close to being as bad as it was back then.

Yep.  I've been saying the former for years, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.  This forum is proof of it--and there have already been quite a few members who have tried to or successfully have farmed reputation to nefarious ends.  Luckily that isn't a widespread problem right now and typical members are skeptical enough to see through those attempts before they come to anything.

A lot of what you said is just factually incorrect. Back when you first started reading all the Legendary rank meant was that that person had made at least one post every two weeks for two years. The merit system was introduced to stop people just farming accounts by logging on once a fortnight to make a mere shitpost just to collect the activity. Today, it's very unlikely you would be able to achieve Legendary rank by merely shitposting. You actually have to have a lot of posts that are worthy of meriting to get the 1000 merit needed. It's actually a fairly decent system as it means you don't move up the ranks by merely posting rubbish. Of course, like any system or preventative measure it isn't perfect but it does its job for the most part.

I would agree that there are too many shitposters and legendary accounts though. A higher post-Legendary rank should be implemented that requires a very large amount of merit to really sort the wheat from the chaff.


What makes you think that also wouldn't be gamed? Anything that can be abused will be. All you will have is people then farming reputation. People already do that by doing deals or taking out loans with the right people they otherwise don't want or need just to repay it and collect a nice green feedback. Rinse and repeat. The merit system is already somewhat reputational based as it means that a decent amount of people have thought your posts were worthy of meriting.


If there's money involved then there will be corruption involved somewhere down the line. It's also not a level playing field as those with the most money and deeper pockets get to advertise whilst others are potentially priced out. I do agree something should be done about all the shitposters though and there should be repercussions for those people who make low quality posts and for the campaign mangers who don't do their job properly and pay for it. The forum would be a much better place very quickly if poor campaign managers were held accountable.

Yep, I have no plans of playing pigeon chess with that dude. I don't think that he is trolling though, he seems genuinely upset. 

I think we should better not waste time with stoat, he is only trolling. As we know, we can not expect this from a good poster. Or maybe he probably only just want the merit system to be cancelled and join a campaign.

Name:    Rikafip
Posts:    5012
Activity:    1190
Merit:    3976
Position:    Legendary
Date Registered:    August 03, 2019, 04:13:31 PM

LOL at this point I'll only accept discussion with accounts aged 2015 or earlier. i don't think post 2019 newbies even know how much of a disgrace this forum has become from what it once was. SATOSHI HIMSELF posted here regularly. you are shitting on his memory.

There is a lack of merit sources that are active in altcoin section so that's why it is indeed hard to rank up if you mainly post here. That's how it is at the moment and if you wanna change it, you are free to apply for a merit source status and help the fellow forum members who mainly post there, and that way you will help yourself as well.


If you see meaningless one liner shitpost, you can always report it to mods and in most cases it will be deleted.


Good post can be of course written in one short sentence (and yes there's bunch of bloated garbage posts written for the purpose of looking better to managers), but I was talking specifically about meaningless one-liner shitposts.

This forum has its problems of course, but none would be sorted by removing merit system.

You appear to be exactly the type of account I'm talking about

Position:    Legendary
Date Registered:    March 07, 2020, 12:51:25 AM

please point me to some legendary activity of yours so I can take back what I said. as far as I can see you're either a newbie, or an alt account of an experienced cartel merit farmer

Rule number 32:


Which means you have not been following what is happening on this forum. Also you have only earned just 6 merits before, how can you tell if you are reading posts of a bounty hunters (but I mean low quality posts specially) when your account do not have the qualities to do so?

Back then, there were legendaries that supposed to be newbies, there were heros, senior members, full members and even newbies that supposed not to rank up, but thanks to theymos for introducing merit system that is helping against spams and more low quality posters on this forum.

Legendary accounts achieved within a year? You are absolutely very wrong. You do not even know how ranking up and activities are on this forum, but you only just want to post nonsense.

Bitcointalk remain one of the best bitcoin forum, but people like you will not want to learn or contribute. The reason you do not know.

Posting in Altcoin discussion didn't qualify for increased merit as far as I remember, and that's where I mainly posted.
Posting meaningless 1 liner shitposts is what people do here NOW. in those days it would have got you laughed out of the room. And what is your problem with 1 liner shitposts? some of the best posts are 1 liner shitposts. the only problem you have with it is that it doesn't fulfill your silly bounty campaign requirements


Why not just abolish all these ranks entirely and have reputation based on, you know, actual reputation not a "reputation system" which exists just to be gamed by a cartel

What are you talking about? "Back in your day" before implementtation of merit system it was exactly the opposite, as all you had to is post 1 meaningless oneliner shitpost post per day for ~3 years in order to reach Legendary rank, while now you actually have to write meaningful (to some degree) post in order to reach higher ranks.


Impossible to happen as you still need to meet activity requirement, no matter how many merits you have.


Since your activity is below Legendary requirement (775), first thing that you would have to change is to post more consistently and you might reach Legendary rank, evenbtually.

The laughable state of this forum, I've been reading this website since at least 2014, most active during 2015-2016 and the website is just unreadable at this point. 99% of the posts are from bounty hunter spammers

Too many Legendary accounts!
There seem to be hundreds of legendary accounts and they have all got there through some sort of merit cartel as far as I can see. just spam enough pointless repetitive posts to get to legendary status? Back when I first started reading, legendary status used to mean something, it meant that poster had something useful to contribute. Now it just means they merited themselves with an alt or they bought sMErits online and they spammed the forum enough times.

The thing that grinds my gears the most is that there are legendary accounts with a join date of less than a year ago, and here's my account which is operated by a normal user, who has contributed to actual discussion about actual real issues since 2015 with a Senior member level LOL!

the site admin should abolish all this corrupt nonsense and just have ads, that means its a level playing field and no corruption. You still make money. You think having thousands of beggars making pointless posts will make the forum better? this is now a low quality forum with low quality users.