Topic: Abortion is a God Given Right of Females like the right to bear Arms - page 2. (Read 990 times)

I think you're not seeing the whole picture of pregnancy. How about picturing your first kick of child, first baby shower, how you're going to play with your child, how he/she will be growing up with time...instead of being pessimistic all the time. Even though I'm a man, I know how it's being pregnant. Because I don't believed that women's are the only one who gets pregnant. Because when I know about my wife's being pregnant, the feeling I had at that moment will never can be erased throughout my life. It's like something that I cannot express by words. So I didn't thought any seconds that she got pregnant instead what I thought and what I told is we got pregnant and we can go this pregnancy period with together.

I also didn't believed child as a God's gift and didn't like the way you called a unborn child( actually human being) as "something". That word is not having any love at all, it's like a physical thing that didn't have life. But actually is it? No way. It's the beginning of life.

Don't even think about that way. Can I know how you interpret "life"? What do you mean by "changing your life fo-re-ver?" Is that mean the happiness, joy that brings up with babies or changing your body shape, changing your lifestyle. Giving a birth to a child and rising up that child is not a task but a most responsible job in the entire world. That job you didn't get paid, didn't even have any leaves. But you have the utter satisfaction at the end of the day. I didn't mean that is only duty of women's but the men's too. Trust me now I'm feeling that satisfaction by being a father.

Just imagine what happened if your mother thought the same way that you're thinking, when they knowing about their pregnancy.

It's not your own body, thats the end product, years of sacrifices of your parents. As far my believes "abortion" is not a thing we must rejected, but we need to think about twice before we adopt it. Sometimes when we consider about situations like getting raped , illness of the mother which inability of taking care about her child, when mother's life in danger if she delivered, can consider about abortion. But in other scenarios I don't think it is a good thing to practise. Then it will automatically become a thrend which is not good for the developing society too.

Yep. Try to imagine for a second that a new project of law arises and obliged all men to get a vasectomy, for instance. It is impossible to think because it is against the freedom of men -even when it should be a really better way of over-population-control.  But, of course, it is unthinkable.
But women.. well. In the middle 60`s the anticonception pills were seen as a sing or revolution, but, there is not. The secondary symptoms are horrible for many, and yet, we don`t have a man`s anti-conceptive pill. Why? Because all the responsibility is on women, as usual.

And, of course, others feel they have the right of discussing my own and personal body in social terms, because I`m a woman, so others need to take desitions in my place? How is that? Are we in the XXI century or not?
Where I live a woman can go to jail if she is raped and get an abortion; if the baby is coming in a bad shape and she decides to abort, for her life is in a risk; if she simply doesn`t want the baby. It is considered murder, and she`s going to go to jail for a lifetime. But rapping? It is just a month in jail.
How fair, eh?

Turn it back. Imagine that women were allowed to castrate men, for instance, and that they (women) decides that all men should be castrated. Try to imagine that for one second. And now, imagine that were the women the ones in the power instead of the men, so they can promulgate any law relative to the other`s body. Quite terrible, isn`t it?
Imagine that all the social responsibility of reproduction were deposited on the men. Hard, isn`t it?

It might sound very harsh but:

When something feeds on a host and cannot sustain itself without that host is is called a parasite.

Whether it is a parasitic worm or pathogen.

If it is living in your body and you want to get rid of it - nobody blinks an eye.

Murdering a tapeworm ? Massacring bacteria ?

When a host has something growing in them they should have the right to get rid of it.

Whatever the parasitic organism might be. Tapeworm, bacteria, sperm or fetus.

Pregnancy is a reasonably dangerous medical condition - try applying for life insurance while pregnant !

Once it can sustain life by itself without a host it becomes murder.

But people should take more responsibility and not get pregnant in the first place if they don't want to have a kid.

The world is overpopulated by humans. For a child to be born into a world when it is not wanted by its parents it creates a huge problem for that child.

Emotional trauma and financial disadvantage.  Consider prevention before pregnancy and consider adoption before termination.

Once they are born they have rights and require 18+ years of protection, love and nurture. Unwanted children are just sad. I'd love to adopt a child.

This is an incredibly good point, and I had not considered the issue in this way before:

We are quite happy for women to bear all the responsibilities of pregnancy, contraception, childbirth, etc, but we want strip them any of the associated rights. Talk about inequality.

Of course. If males were the one carrying the babies we wouldn`t have this conversation.
Thanks for your words. That`s exactly was I was trying to mean.

Could you imagine for just a minute if males carried offspring?  Not only would abortion be legal it would be state covered and men would be given months off work paid to recover!

My wife and daughter are wonderful intelligent people and I can't imagine a single person in the world better able to decide what to do for themselves than them!!

I`ve been following this thread for some time now and refusing myself to engage with the discussion since I am a woman and I find most all the quotes somehow insulting.
Ok, men. I have a body. This is myyy body. In terms of reproduction, men and women are involved but it is my body, my whole body, the responsibility of feeding, growing-up and, in a resume, create a whole new life.
What if I don`t want to have another being inside my belly? What if, despite I`ve taken all the measures created by science I got pregnant? What if I just don`t want to feel sick, to have a delivery, to spend the next whole year of my life with my body going onto one change to another?

Men in the thread: try to picture for a second what to be pregnant means: to feel sick, to grow something inside of you, to feel depressed, tyred... What if I just don`t want any of this? Are you going to push me, to oblige me to carry another life inside of my own body? Seriously?

I don`t believe in God, I can`t see a child as a god's gift, but as a circumstance and as something having a place inside my own body. Really, guys,  do you really want a creature growing up inside your own body? Changing your life fo-re-ver? Because having a baby is not only to deliver the new creature into an overpopulated world -by the way. Is the task of taking care forever for another person.

Men have a partial view of the situation. They can just go after the delivery, they can become visitors of their own child. But women... well, we don`t have this.

Sorry. I just can`t understand how this kind of conversations can be in the mouths of the people. This is a conversation a woman needs to have with herself or, in the case, a couple must have. This is my body. And nobody has any right of taking a desition about my own body, no one!!

Society is used to give all the responsibility to the women: anticonception pills -with all the secondary effects they have, the responsibility of the care after the delivery... Well that`s enough, isn`t it? Or... If I am the one guilty of getting pregnant, give me the chance to decide what to do with my own body at least.

This pretty much sums it up. If you try to remove a woman's bodily autonomy by forcing her to carry an unwanted pregnancy, then you affording her less rights than we do to a corpse. Let her decide for herself.

I actually think there is much more to giving women rights.  In the west the debate is largely over.  Most women have many more rights than their counterparts in 3rd world countries.

I personally wish people would allow women to decide for themselves.  Give them proper education about the long term consequences of carrying to term or aborting.  Let's be honest both choice have life long impacts.  Give them safe legal options, because they are going to get them anyways.

Women who get abortions are our sisters, wives, daughters, mothers, they're not criminals.  They are intelligent people, give them some credit and some education so they can make their OWN smart decision and be safe about.  It is 2018 you know!


I'm often reminded of the late great Christopher Hitchens and his comments on womens rights to choose for themselves.


Source:  http://monicks.net/2010/11/27/christopher-hitchens-vs-tony-blair-the-full-transcript/

Tell that to someone who had an abortion and can't stop feeling extreme guilt about it for the rest of their life (which isn't necessarily everyone who does, but certainly some).

Morality is about the way we feel about defined actions. Here's a moral absolute for you: it's not really acceptable to say to someone "Hey, technically, there's nothing to be upset about, it was only a bunch of cells".


There are too many people today arguing that there's only one way of looking at this problem or that problem. We can have a lot less conflict if we accept that other people's very antithetical perspectives are valid, .

Of course people can hold any opinion they wish, and I never claimed otherwise.

All cells are alive, but I'm simply pointing out that a clump of cells without a functioning nervous system, incapable of thinking, feeling, sensing, responding, or consciousness, is not yet a human.

So being "life" isn't important? That's not what you said before.


Like I said, this is all semantic arguments really. But an abortion isn't. Either you do it, or you don't. And either the baby grows or it doesn't.

It's all about perspective really; a pregnant mother having a scan looks at a 16 or 20 week old fetus and sees her baby, and thinks and refers to it that way. A mother aborting a fetus perhaps prefers to think of the fetus as just cells.

So if it's all about perspective, then can people not choose how they think about this issue? Or must everyone think exactly the same thing you do? You will have problems achieving the latter.

You also said that killing bacteria is murder. I was just pointing out that that simply isn't true.



Alive? Yes. A human being? No.

Regardless, this isn't a useful metric. It's a biological fact that tumour cells are both individually and together alive.

Yep, and that's why I essentially said "not all murders are ethically the same"


Simple example: vegetarians say "meat is murder". Everyone has their own moral boundaries, neither you, I, or a book can decide that.



So you're saying it's just semantics (incidentally, what makes you think you have any kind of authority do define a valid debate?).

So, if these human cells aren't alive, abortion isn't necessary. Unfortunately, it's a biological fact that fetal cells are, both individually and together, alive. And that's why an abortion happens at all; to stop the child from coming to term.

By definition, murder is the premeditated killing of another human being. By your definition, everyone becomes a mass murderer every time they wash their hands.

The debate is at what point a fetus becomes a human being. It certainly isn't at conception. Human cells, yes. Human being, no. My argument has always been that until it develops a nervous system capable of consciousness (around 22-24 weeks), it is not a life.

THE MOTHER DECIDE.

it is simplest, fastest, less hassle, other more serious problem can be allocated limited ressources... wasting time on this is useless... some looks like cavemen still discussing how to light a fire... and mentally this is an unhealty discussion. mother do what she wants until delivery. end of the discussion...

this pussy obsession is boring...

There's 2 distinct part of this issue to me

Ethical: abortion is murder

It's alive, and you made a decision to kill it. That's murder, whether it's a dinosaur, a lab rat, a bacteria colony or a human fetus.

Murder is not always bad. I think that's what causes the problems in the abortion debate, alot of polarisation about murder always being wrong. But I don't think it's unfair to say that murder should always be avoided if possible.


Practical: abortion always has and always will exist

You can't stop people murdering human fetuses in utero. It's impossible to manage, and counter-productive to punish. No-one will ever agree universally on the ethics, it's impossible to achieve that.


So, it's best not to interfere, all that does is encourage the idea that interfering in each other's lives is "correct", when the truth is that we all have different ideas about right and wrong anyway.

I know, I was reading best scholars...



reducing the complexity of life to the simplicity of digits is quite extraordinary.


exactly, you rights start at delivery, as long as the chicken is in the grill there is no right but the right of the grill owner (aka the female herself, her body, her choice).

what is shocking for you is to put the destiny of the child / baby / unborn in the HANDS only of its mother.

this act simply remove a big part of your conditionning matrix, as it free the mother to be the sole rule maker, the only one decider, above all your lies, on what she is.


a subject that I find fascinating is DNA pollution of future mother by exposing them as much as possible as a wide range of sexual partnerers, and those (maybe AI) were saying that genetic trace of all previous partners stay in the female body... I don't know the science behind it... but it's clear that already saliva to saliva will transmit genetic material...

If you know more about it please share, as this narrative is so contrary to fuck everyone passing with a wallet or a body that you see that his pumped to most females westwide.


first they have to rule the bitches, then it's us... if they can rule our mothers, decide what is in them, what will they do to us? declare that cannabis or suicide (euthanasia) illegal, force vaccinate us, inflate the currency only for their own benefits? who knows...


101.

if women are empowered, then it's the male masses... if you fear the people, you should shit your pants, why would the AI serve you? don't forget in the human zoo there are no KAPO or prisoner self-administration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapo_(concentration_camp)), you are too stupid, collectively or individually to simply think about that, can't manage themselves, and want to rule others, not the human zoo !

who told you the human zoo would be planetary? size or number doesn't matter...


what a weak line, rather than address the issue at end you refer to neuropath to reinforce your refusal to let WOMEN DECIDE.

where logic defeat you is : you refuse to let mother kill their own baby because life is sacred, so you can't kill the abortionist.

the loop of death.

some call it the circle of fire.

we are armed and we abort, so how do you wanna die in those perilous time, where? when those who aren't even the father dare to interfere in the body of another woman... gosh if it isn't "evil"...

why don't you trust the mother? it's HER fucking body.

anyway, thanks for your comments, and don't forget legal or not, it's a LEGIT trade. MOTHER SAID : OUT OF MY BODY . WE SAID : X MUCH . SHE SAID : OK . WE DID. DONE. next.

now where I would rejoin your critique of the abortion industry is when they foster the hypergamist behavior of women (to be a liberated free and powerful women mean fucking as much as possible before and then finding a beta bucks to suck dry (only financially)) and do abortion as candy because it's fun to fish with baby in the stomach to lock a fiat provider...

seeing through the female conspiracy doesn't mean having to behave unjustly toward them, they go low and lower if they want. block and that's it.

the circle of fire . THE WALLS OF HELL

wow ... just wow dude.

..


gosh we live in evil times.

In today's society and some countries Abortion is considered an option, it's a heavy and
serious decision. However in some countries they view abortion more as of a crime and a 
immoral option. Regardless if it's immoral or not, it's really up to the mother to decide
whats best for her. It's the 21st century, a lot has changed and women are more empowered
now than ever, they can independently choose what's best and right for them, it's their body
and life.