[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread - page 329.

Streets 2.0

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FRX: Ferocious Alpha

Quote from: Vbs on July 10, 2013, 06:54:04 PM

Pre-orders are a really tricky subject, as there has to be always some funds reserved for returns. Remember that pre-orders will only have a real cost when the respective hardware is manufactured, so the profit margins are not yet set in stone.

Since ActM does have a mining operation there's some leeway, but caution is very mandatory here.

The more that I think about it, this is a tricky situation. I understand both sides of the argument, because if the customer requests a refund and the funds have already been distributed then we are all shits up creek on that one. Considering the fact that it is a pre order, maybe those perceived profits from the miner ordered should not be paid out to any share until the hardware is realized and ready to be shipped. Only then to the profits get distributed. Seems logical

Vbs

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Pre-orders are a really tricky subject, as there has to be always some funds reserved for returns. Remember that pre-orders will only have a real cost when the respective hardware is manufactured, so the profit margins are not yet set in stone.

Since ActM does have a mining operation there's some leeway, but caution is very mandatory here.

gski

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Quote from: FloatesMcgoates on July 10, 2013, 06:23:51 PM

Quote from: gski on July 10, 2013, 06:19:05 PM

Quote from: FloatesMcgoates on July 10, 2013, 06:12:39 PM

Sales of hardware are clearly mentioned in the contract, and thus will be paid out in dividends. It does not matter what you or anyone else thinks about how the money should be spent when the contract specifies what will be done.

My question was not a matter of if dividends will be paid, but when - This week or next week.

There has been no sale of hardware only a pre-order. You cant "spend" a clients money without delivering some goods, unless it is in the creation of said goods.

What are you talking about? Have you just made this point up on the spot?

I guess the second sentence was made up on the spot and has no foundation outside of my ethical view on how business should be conducted. However I believe my first point is still quite valid.

hf

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there will be no fucking vegetables

Quote from: FloatesMcgoates on July 10, 2013, 06:12:39 PM

Sales of hardware are clearly mentioned in the contract, and thus will be paid out in dividends. It does not matter what you or anyone else thinks about how the money should be spent when the contract specifies what will be done.

You're absolutely right :
- Sales of hardware are clearly mentioned
- What anyone thinks does not matter, what the contract specifies must be enforced.

Strictly speaking, pre-orders are not sales*. According to the contract, pre-orders money should NOT be paid out in dividends, no matter what you or anyone else thinks.

*Here, you don't have to buy a pre-order, you place a pre-order. It's different from an option, by example. If Ken was selling buy options on AM's future hardware, the money earned by selling the option would go into dividends.
Pre-order are not sales, they are from the buyer POV similar to a buy promise, from the seller POV similar to a sale guarantee.

FloatesMcgoates

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Quote from: gski on July 10, 2013, 06:19:05 PM

Quote from: FloatesMcgoates on July 10, 2013, 06:12:39 PM

Sales of hardware are clearly mentioned in the contract, and thus will be paid out in dividends. It does not matter what you or anyone else thinks about how the money should be spent when the contract specifies what will be done.

My question was not a matter of if dividends will be paid, but when - This week or next week.

There has been no sale of hardware only a pre-order. You cant "spend" a clients money without delivering some goods, unless it is in the creation of said goods.

What are you talking about? Have you just made this point up on the spot?

superduh

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it's ok guys. the bitcoin world is new to the population lacking common sense

gski

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Quote from: FloatesMcgoates on July 10, 2013, 06:12:39 PM

Sales of hardware are clearly mentioned in the contract, and thus will be paid out in dividends. It does not matter what you or anyone else thinks about how the money should be spent when the contract specifies what will be done.

My question was not a matter of if dividends will be paid, but when - This week or next week.

There has been no sale of hardware only a pre-order. You cant "spend" a clients money without delivering some goods, unless it is in the creation of said goods.

FloatesMcgoates

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Quote from: navitatl on July 10, 2013, 06:14:19 PM

Quote from: FloatesMcgoates on July 10, 2013, 06:12:39 PM

From contract:
Dividend payment
The global ActiveMining's income, including mining income, hardware sales via bitcoins, other cryptocoins and fiat transferred to bitcoins, will be paid to ActiveMining shareholders proportionally, after all manufacturing, maintenance, labor costs, R&D, growth and miscellaneous expenses are deducted. The first BTC0.0025/share dividends will only be paid to the first 10,000,000 ActiveMining shares, providing public investors a priority in getting back 100% return of their investment.

Sales of hardware are clearly mentioned in the contract, and thus will be paid out in dividends. It does not matter what you or anyone else thinks about how the money should be spent when the contract specifies what will be done.

My question was not a matter of if dividends will be paid, but when - This week or next week.

Please see bold.

So deduct expenses, and then pay out the dividends. I don't see what your point is.

navitatl

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Quote from: FloatesMcgoates on July 10, 2013, 06:12:39 PM

From contract:
Dividend payment
The global ActiveMining's income, including mining income, hardware sales via bitcoins, other cryptocoins and fiat transferred to bitcoins, will be paid to ActiveMining shareholders proportionally, after all manufacturing, maintenance, labor costs, R&D, growth and miscellaneous expenses are deducted. The first BTC0.0025/share dividends will only be paid to the first 10,000,000 ActiveMining shares, providing public investors a priority in getting back 100% return of their investment.

Sales of hardware are clearly mentioned in the contract, and thus will be paid out in dividends. It does not matter what you or anyone else thinks about how the money should be spent when the contract specifies what will be done.

My question was not a matter of if dividends will be paid, but when - This week or next week.

Please see bold.

John818

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Quote from: bobboooiie on July 10, 2013, 06:04:26 PM

Quote from: neilol on July 10, 2013, 05:53:51 PM

Quote from: ArcticWolf on July 10, 2013, 05:46:52 PM

Quote from: FloatesMcgoates on July 10, 2013, 05:36:38 PM

Will the several thousand dollars worth of Fast-Hash sales be factored into dividends this week or the following week?

Personally I'd prefer if Ken took that sales money and put it toward the NRE to get the new chips made. This way we get the new machines to the market faster, meaning more profit in the long run.

Wrong - pay out the divs. If the market believes that putting the money back into dev costs we will rebuy the shares being issued.

WRONG - what are you people crazy ? those are not sales but pre-orders. You cannot do a thing with those money, what if buyer requests refund are you doing to do then?

THIS.

FloatesMcgoates

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Quote from: bobboooiie on July 10, 2013, 06:04:26 PM

Quote from: neilol on July 10, 2013, 05:53:51 PM

Quote from: ArcticWolf on July 10, 2013, 05:46:52 PM

Quote from: FloatesMcgoates on July 10, 2013, 05:36:38 PM

Will the several thousand dollars worth of Fast-Hash sales be factored into dividends this week or the following week?

Personally I'd prefer if Ken took that sales money and put it toward the NRE to get the new chips made. This way we get the new machines to the market faster, meaning more profit in the long run.

Wrong - pay out the divs. If the market believes that putting the money back into dev costs we will rebuy the shares being issued.

WRONG - what are you people crazy ? those are not sales but pre-orders. You cannot do a thing with those money, what if buyer requests refund are you doing to do then?

From contract:
Dividend payment
The global ActiveMining's income, including mining income, hardware sales via bitcoins, other cryptocoins and fiat transferred to bitcoins, will be paid to ActiveMining shareholders proportionally, after all manufacturing, maintenance, labor costs, R&D, growth and miscellaneous expenses are deducted. The first BTC0.0025/share dividends will only be paid to the first 10,000,000 ActiveMining shares, providing public investors a priority in getting back 100% return of their investment.

Sales of hardware are clearly mentioned in the contract, and thus will be paid out in dividends. It does not matter what you or anyone else thinks about how the money should be spent when the contract specifies what will be done.

My question was not a matter of if dividends will be paid, but when - This week or next week.

gski

newbie

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Yeah this is not profit, so has nothing to do with dividends. All this really means is that once the gear starts rolling out the door then we have guaranteed initial income - providing a refund is not requested. No contract is being broken.

bobboooiie

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Quote from: neilol on July 10, 2013, 05:53:51 PM

Quote from: ArcticWolf on July 10, 2013, 05:46:52 PM

Quote from: FloatesMcgoates on July 10, 2013, 05:36:38 PM

Will the several thousand dollars worth of Fast-Hash sales be factored into dividends this week or the following week?

Personally I'd prefer if Ken took that sales money and put it toward the NRE to get the new chips made. This way we get the new machines to the market faster, meaning more profit in the long run.

Wrong - pay out the divs. If the market believes that putting the money back into dev costs we will rebuy the shares being issued.

WRONG - what are you people crazy ? those are not sales but pre-orders. You cannot do a thing with those money, what if buyer requests refund are you doing to do then?

neilol

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Quote from: ArcticWolf on July 10, 2013, 05:46:52 PM

Quote from: FloatesMcgoates on July 10, 2013, 05:36:38 PM

Will the several thousand dollars worth of Fast-Hash sales be factored into dividends this week or the following week?

Personally I'd prefer if Ken took that sales money and put it toward the NRE to get the new chips made. This way we get the new machines to the market faster, meaning more profit in the long run.

Wrong - pay out the divs. If the market believes that putting the money back into dev costs we will rebuy the shares being issued.

navitatl

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Quote from: ArcticWolf on July 10, 2013, 05:46:52 PM

Personally I'd prefer if Ken took that sales money and put it toward the NRE to get the new chips made. This way we get the new machines to the market faster, meaning more profit in the long run.

Agreed, I think making NRE costs should be #1 priority so we can get that ball rolling. I'd even be willing to give up current mining dividends, BUT I don't think that would get us very far in selling the rest of those shares.

ArcticWolf

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Quote from: FloatesMcgoates on July 10, 2013, 05:36:38 PM

Will the several thousand dollars worth of Fast-Hash sales be factored into dividends this week or the following week?

Personally I'd prefer if Ken took that sales money and put it toward the NRE to get the new chips made. This way we get the new machines to the market faster, meaning more profit in the long run.

FloatesMcgoates

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Will the several thousand dollars worth of Fast-Hash sales be factored into dividends this week or the following week?

canuckgal

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Quote from: canuckgal on July 10, 2013, 02:39:25 PM

Quote from: VolanicEruptor on July 10, 2013, 02:12:04 PM

Quote from: knybe on July 10, 2013, 02:10:07 PM

Sorry if this has been addressed already, can't seem to find answer:

Just to be clear; if I'm holding AMC-PT on BTCT should I just sit tight and wait for the change over to Active Mining? Or should I go ahead and tender my shares of AMC-PT?

sit tight and wait

As someone playing the waiting game after tendering, I agree that you should sit tight.

Just wanted to let everyone know that I received my Active Mining shares

took about 16 hours. It is legit!

Thanks everyone for all your updates and info, and thanks to the top dog Ken

knybe

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decentralize EVERYTHING...

oaxaca

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Topic: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread - page 329. (Read 479317 times)