Actually owning bitcoin | Bitcointalksearch.org

coupable

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Quote from: magneto on November 22, 2016, 02:00:48 AM

Quote from: BigChocolate on November 22, 2016, 12:09:16 AM

Hello!

Someone told me that if I purchase bitcoin from Coinbase that I didn't ACTUALLY own the bitcoin, but rather Coinbase owned it, and I just told them what to do with it?

I am new to this community and just seek clarification. How and where do I go about actually owning it?

Best,

Big Chocolate.

Well, what they really mean is that you don't really own the bitcoin, but rather Coinbase does. However, you have a claim against your bitcoins on Coinbase's company. So it's like a debt - coinbase owes you xx amount of bitcoin, and you can technically claim it from them any time. Sort of like a bank as well. You always have to consider whether or not the company is trustworthy enough to actually put money into it.

People consider this to be against the bitcoin's very principles, because bitcoin aims to build a trustless decentralized economy. In order to use coinbase's services first of all you have to trust the company. Coinbase is more like Paypal than a bitcoin company.

I agree with you. I use a coinbase wallet since more than two years and i had no problems at all. It's a bank of bitcoin and am very satisfied with it's services and it's easy to use it than blockchain.

GregH37

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Quote from: el kaka22 on November 23, 2016, 04:26:15 PM

In a decentralized system, owning our wealth must be the right option instead of depending upon other centralized services. Owning bitcoin will find a solution when we simply choosing the desktop wallets. Web wallets are centralized services so they will not support your real ownership of your bitcoins.

Yes that is right to say if you are owning bitcoin it means that you have right to use it anywhere in the world, as compare web wallet to centralized currency that’s belong to a particular country and its central bank like our bitcoins into web wallet provider.Actually not owning problem comes from centralized services so avoiding them will auto solve it.

Wandering Soul~

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Wolf

Quote from: avatar_kiyoshi on November 23, 2016, 02:06:39 PM

Quote from: BigChocolate on November 22, 2016, 02:45:41 AM

Thanks fo all of this great info! I plan to put a decent amount in over time, hopefully to amount to over 1 bitcoin eventually. Are they useful at that point? and I will deff look into blockchain.info.

Better to try electrum wallet, cold storage wallet which you don't need to download blockchain data(over 20gb), just need to connect and syncing the wallet: https://electrum.org/#home
Also easy to use, have strong security features and of course you owning bitcoin using this wallet.
If you want to research more, you can find bitcoin wallet listed here: https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

Yes, If you're planning to store a huge amount of bitcoin then it will be best to use a cold storage for it . In case you're not familiar with cold storage, It is when your bitcoins are stored in an offline environment cause online wallets are vulnerable to hackers .

If you don't have enough space, Better try electrum . If you think you have then try bitcoin Core . I think the whole blockchain is around 60gb or so .

el kaka22

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In a decentralized system, owning our wealth must be the right option instead of depending upon other centralized services. Owning bitcoin will find a solution when we simply choosing the desktop wallets. Web wallets are centralized services so they will not support your real ownership of your bitcoins.

avatar_kiyoshi

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Quote from: BigChocolate on November 22, 2016, 02:45:41 AM

Thanks fo all of this great info! I plan to put a decent amount in over time, hopefully to amount to over 1 bitcoin eventually. Are they useful at that point? and I will deff look into blockchain.info.

Better to try electrum wallet, cold storage wallet which you don't need to download blockchain data(over 20gb), just need to connect and syncing the wallet: https://electrum.org/#home
Also easy to use, have strong security features and of course you owning bitcoin using this wallet.
If you want to research more, you can find bitcoin wallet listed here: https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

sportis

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Veni, Vidi, Vici

Any moment you doing a transaction (fiat to bitcoin) with an exchange site like Coindesk you will have to move the bitcoins in a wallet that you trust it. All wallets have pros and cons. The safest but more difficult to use in everyday life are paper-based wallets. Following the HD wallets, in my opinion the best choice, after these electronic wallets, for PC Android and IOS for smartphones and Web based ones. You can have more than one if you want. Look at here https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

BigChocolate

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Quote from: magneto on November 22, 2016, 02:40:01 AM

Quote from: BigChocolate on November 22, 2016, 02:36:34 AM

Quote from: Killerpotleaf on November 22, 2016, 02:04:35 AM

Quote from: BigChocolate on November 22, 2016, 01:48:55 AM

Quote from: Kakmakr on November 22, 2016, 01:28:42 AM

If you still need to move between Bitcoin and Fiat, you will unfortunately have to make use of third parties to do that. They link your bank account to their services and that way you can buy and sell Bitcoins and then have that converted to fiat and deposited into your banking account.

Most of us, use services like Localbitcoin or we just go to meetups, where we trade between fiat and Bitcoin directly. The only option to own Bitcoin, is when you have sole control or access to your Private Key. If you share that knowledge with other services or transfer it into a service where you do not have access to the private key, then you do not own it anymore. < strictly speaking >

Sorry for sounding like such a noob, but what does "Private Key" exactly entail? How do I find meetups? I just started delving, and am binging and obsessing.

https://www.bitaddress.org/
https://s17.postimg.org/r19o9uevz/Untitled.png

stand alone wallet software like bitcoin Core, manages these public / private keys for you.

but you can print them out.

public key( aka Bitcoin Address ) holds coins, you can share this address with anyone, and poeple can use that address to send coins to you

the private key is used to prove to the network that you own the public key, and there by allows you to move funds from that public key(bitcoin address) to another bitcoin address

its as simple as that.

use blockchain.info, it FEELS like a web-based wallet ( and in many ways it is ) BUT the private keys to that wallet a stored locally on your computer. no one not even blockchain.info has access to this private key. However, this key is on your computer and your computer itself can be compromised. for long term "cold storage" you want to print out a public private key pair as shown above.

keep asking questions
good luck!

If I were to buy a "Ledge Nano" or something of that nature (Cold-Storage), would that allow me to skip things like this?

If you are referring to skipping the part where you have to print out all your addresses, then yes. You can skip that with something like Ledger Nano or Trezor wallet. However, keep in mind that if you are only going to get a small amount of bitcoins you are not going to actually get a Trezor or ledger as it is completely irrevelevent and not worth it... You'll spend at least spend .1 BTC on a Trezor + shipping.

I'd recommend Blockchain.info for anything under 1 BTC... It is secure and fast, and a web wallet too.

Thanks fo all of this great info! I plan to put a decent amount in over time, hopefully to amount to over 1 bitcoin eventually. Are they useful at that point? and I will deff look into blockchain.info.

magneto

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Quote from: BigChocolate on November 22, 2016, 02:36:34 AM

Quote from: Killerpotleaf on November 22, 2016, 02:04:35 AM

Quote from: BigChocolate on November 22, 2016, 01:48:55 AM

Quote from: Kakmakr on November 22, 2016, 01:28:42 AM

If you still need to move between Bitcoin and Fiat, you will unfortunately have to make use of third parties to do that. They link your bank account to their services and that way you can buy and sell Bitcoins and then have that converted to fiat and deposited into your banking account.

Most of us, use services like Localbitcoin or we just go to meetups, where we trade between fiat and Bitcoin directly. The only option to own Bitcoin, is when you have sole control or access to your Private Key. If you share that knowledge with other services or transfer it into a service where you do not have access to the private key, then you do not own it anymore. < strictly speaking >

Sorry for sounding like such a noob, but what does "Private Key" exactly entail? How do I find meetups? I just started delving, and am binging and obsessing.

https://www.bitaddress.org/

stand alone wallet software like bitcoin Core, manages these public / private keys for you.

but you can print them out.

public key( aka Bitcoin Address ) holds coins, you can share this address with anyone, and poeple can use that address to send coins to you

the private key is used to prove to the network that you own the public key, and there by allows you to move funds from that public key(bitcoin address) to another bitcoin address

its as simple as that.

use blockchain.info, it FEELS like a web-based wallet ( and in many ways it is ) BUT the private keys to that wallet a stored locally on your computer. no one not even blockchain.info has access to this private key. However, this key is on your computer and your computer itself can be compromised. for long term "cold storage" you want to print out a public private key pair as shown above.

keep asking questions
good luck!

If I were to buy a "Ledge Nano" or something of that nature (Cold-Storage), would that allow me to skip things like this?

If you are referring to skipping the part where you have to print out all your addresses, then yes. You can skip that with something like Ledger Nano or Trezor wallet. However, keep in mind that if you are only going to get a small amount of bitcoins you are not going to actually get a Trezor or ledger as it is completely irrevelevent and not worth it... You'll spend at least spend .1 BTC on a Trezor + shipping.

I'd recommend Blockchain.info for anything under 1 BTC... It is secure and fast, and a web wallet too.

BigChocolate

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Quote from: Killerpotleaf on November 22, 2016, 02:04:35 AM

Quote from: BigChocolate on November 22, 2016, 01:48:55 AM

Quote from: Kakmakr on November 22, 2016, 01:28:42 AM

If you still need to move between Bitcoin and Fiat, you will unfortunately have to make use of third parties to do that. They link your bank account to their services and that way you can buy and sell Bitcoins and then have that converted to fiat and deposited into your banking account.

Most of us, use services like Localbitcoin or we just go to meetups, where we trade between fiat and Bitcoin directly. The only option to own Bitcoin, is when you have sole control or access to your Private Key. If you share that knowledge with other services or transfer it into a service where you do not have access to the private key, then you do not own it anymore. < strictly speaking >

Sorry for sounding like such a noob, but what does "Private Key" exactly entail? How do I find meetups? I just started delving, and am binging and obsessing.

https://www.bitaddress.org/
https://s17.postimg.org/r19o9uevz/Untitled.png

stand alone wallet software like bitcoin Core, manages these public / private keys for you.

but you can print them out.

public key( aka Bitcoin Address ) holds coins, you can share this address with anyone, and poeple can use that address to send coins to you

the private key is used to prove to the network that you own the public key, and there by allows you to move funds from that public key(bitcoin address) to another bitcoin address

its as simple as that.

use blockchain.info, it FEELS like a web-based wallet ( and in many ways it is ) BUT the private keys to that wallet a stored locally on your computer. no one not even blockchain.info has access to this private key. However, this key is on your computer and your computer itself can be compromised. for long term "cold storage" you want to print out a public private key pair as shown above.

keep asking questions
good luck!

[/quote

If I were to buy a "Ledge Nano" or something of that nature (Cold-Storage), would that allow me to skip things like this?

Mark02

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Quote from: BigChocolate on November 22, 2016, 12:09:16 AM

Hello!

Someone told me that if I purchase bitcoin from Coinbase that I didn't ACTUALLY own the bitcoin, but rather Coinbase owned it, and I just told them what to do with it?

I am new to this community and just seek clarification. How and where do I go about actually owning it?

Best,

Big Chocolate.

Yeah, if you buy a coin in COINBASE but it is still stored in that wallet, they still have the control and they own them. But you can transfer that and then use it in a transaction, when it is not on their wallet. It os not theirs anymore.

n0ne

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Such issues were found with few bitcoin exchange websites. These can be overcome by transferring the bought bitcoin to other bitcoin wallets. Also its better to store in Blockchain wallet, it has got the improved security features compared to other bitcoin wallets.

magneto

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Quote from: Killerpotleaf on November 22, 2016, 02:04:35 AM

-snip-

^Listen to this guy, he knows his shit Cheesy

Basically the ownership of bitcoin is only symbolised by whether you own the private key or not. With coinbase although you can sign messages from your previously used addresses it is impossible to directly have a claim to your bitcoin on the actual decentralized network.

Use bitaddress.org if you're advanced, however as you are a newbie, I recommend blockchain.info. It is easy to use and based on the base, but also allowing to have a claim to your own private key.

Don't worry, newbies should and are encouraged to ask questions on this forum. We bitcoin degenerates would be more than happy to help you out!

Hope this helps Cheesy

Holliday

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If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins.

It's that simple.

If your coins are stored with a service where the service controls the private keys, you don't really have bitcoins, you have an IOU from that service to deliver bitcoins to you (or someone else) upon your request. They may or may not comply with that request, which is why one should always make certain that they are the sole controller of their private keys.

Killerpotleaf

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Quote from: BigChocolate on November 22, 2016, 01:48:55 AM

Quote from: Kakmakr on November 22, 2016, 01:28:42 AM

If you still need to move between Bitcoin and Fiat, you will unfortunately have to make use of third parties to do that. They link your bank account to their services and that way you can buy and sell Bitcoins and then have that converted to fiat and deposited into your banking account.

Most of us, use services like Localbitcoin or we just go to meetups, where we trade between fiat and Bitcoin directly. The only option to own Bitcoin, is when you have sole control or access to your Private Key. If you share that knowledge with other services or transfer it into a service where you do not have access to the private key, then you do not own it anymore. < strictly speaking >

Sorry for sounding like such a noob, but what does "Private Key" exactly entail? How do I find meetups? I just started delving, and am binging and obsessing.

https://www.bitaddress.org/

stand alone wallet software like bitcoin Core, manages these public / private keys for you.

but you can print them out.

public key( aka Bitcoin Address ) holds coins, you can share this address with anyone, and poeple can use that address to send coins to you

the private key is used to prove to the network that you own the public key, and there by allows you to move funds from that public key(bitcoin address) to another bitcoin address

its as simple as that.

use blockchain.info, it FEELS like a web-based wallet ( and in many ways it is ) BUT the private keys to that wallet a stored locally on your computer. no one not even blockchain.info has access to this private key. However, this key is on your computer and your computer itself can be compromised. for long term "cold storage" you want to print out a public private key pair as shown above.

keep asking questions
good luck!

magneto

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Activity: 1666

Merit: 753

Quote from: BigChocolate on November 22, 2016, 12:09:16 AM

Hello!

Someone told me that if I purchase bitcoin from Coinbase that I didn't ACTUALLY own the bitcoin, but rather Coinbase owned it, and I just told them what to do with it?

I am new to this community and just seek clarification. How and where do I go about actually owning it?

Best,

Big Chocolate.

Well, what they really mean is that you don't really own the bitcoin, but rather Coinbase does. However, you have a claim against your bitcoins on Coinbase's company. So it's like a debt - coinbase owes you xx amount of bitcoin, and you can technically claim it from them any time. Sort of like a bank as well. You always have to consider whether or not the company is trustworthy enough to actually put money into it.

People consider this to be against the bitcoin's very principles, because bitcoin aims to build a trustless decentralized economy. In order to use coinbase's services first of all you have to trust the company. Coinbase is more like Paypal than a bitcoin company.

mrkevio

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In order to have your own Bitcoin, you need to get one of the following: a hard wallet, a cold wallet or install the Bitcoin core on an old PC that you are not using anymore. Install a clean windows or other operating system on it and use it JUST for the Bitcoin core so that you're not going to be exposed to hackers and stuff like that. If you go for wallets like Blockchain, you're the one owning the wallet but if they want they can scan you at any time by taking your funds. Don't keep a lot of money in your wallet.

BigChocolate

newbie

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Quote from: Kakmakr on November 22, 2016, 01:28:42 AM

If you still need to move between Bitcoin and Fiat, you will unfortunately have to make use of third parties to do that. They link your bank account to their services and that way you can buy and sell Bitcoins and then have that converted to fiat and deposited into your banking account.

Most of us, use services like Localbitcoin or we just go to meetups, where we trade between fiat and Bitcoin directly. The only option to own Bitcoin, is when you have sole control or access to your Private Key. If you share that knowledge with other services or transfer it into a service where you do not have access to the private key, then you do not own it anymore. < strictly speaking >

Sorry for sounding like such a noob, but what does "Private Key" exactly entail? How do I find meetups? I just started delving, and am binging and obsessing.

richmcrich

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Quote from: BigChocolate on November 22, 2016, 12:09:16 AM

Someone told me that if I purchase bitcoin from Coinbase that I didn't ACTUALLY own the bitcoin, but rather Coinbase owned it, and I just told them what to do with it?

Owning bitcoins = owning the private key of the bitcoin address.
Coinbase does not allow you to access your bitcoin address's private key. It means those purchased bitcoins is still yours but Coinbase also has access/control over it.

Quote from: BigChocolate on November 22, 2016, 12:09:16 AM

How and where do I go about actually owning it?

Web wallets (coinbase, blockchain.info[1] or xapo) will not let you own your bitcoins 100%. You need to choose stand alone (software/desktop/hardware) wallets. Learn and choose from here : https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

[1] shared control. You and blockchain.info will have access to private key. Still, owning completely is not assured.

requester

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In deep sense you are actually not owning it because. Although you might pay for bitcoin but they will store all in their wallet you don't have your private wallet there. Because when you will need to withdraw to your bitcoin wallet they will impose withdrawal charge.

Kakmakr

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If you still need to move between Bitcoin and Fiat, you will unfortunately have to make use of third parties to do that. They link your bank account to their services and that way you can buy and sell Bitcoins and then have that converted to fiat and deposited into your banking account.

Most of us, use services like Localbitcoin or we just go to meetups, where we trade between fiat and Bitcoin directly. The only option to own Bitcoin, is when you have sole control or access to your Private Key. If you share that knowledge with other services or transfer it into a service where you do not have access to the private key, then you do not own it anymore. < strictly speaking >

Topic: Actually owning bitcoin (Read 1262 times)