address reuse within Electrum | Bitcointalksearch.org

NotATether

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Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 12, 2024, 07:01:53 PM

Quote from: hosseinimr93 on February 12, 2024, 08:58:41 AM

The expiry time is for the request, not for the address.

Why is it critical for the request to expire? Who I am requesting it from? I don't see it's utility.

Actually, request expiration is a cosmetic feature. It lets you e.g. make a request in your wallet that basically says "Description: Person A needs to pay my utility bill, Amount: 0.008 BTC, Expires: 2024-03-01" and the idea behind it is that you can basically copy it and send it to the other person in an email. You can send it as either a Bitcoin URI or a Lightning URI.

nc50lc

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Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 12, 2024, 07:01:53 PM

Why is it critical for the request to expire? Who I am requesting it from? I don't see it's utility.

It's saved in your wallet only, so it's up to you who to send the request.

And the invoice's expiration is for unused address tracking.
Once the invoice is expired, Electrum will assume that the address associated with that invoice wont be receiving bitcoins any further.
So in the next invoice that you'll create, it may show that address again since it's not used yet and the invoice where it's first shown is expired.

Its utility beside the above is to prevent users from leaving too many unused addresses.
Because if a user somehow created 20 unused addresses in a row that didn't received any bitcoins
but generated another in the 21th that is funded, it wont immediately show if the user restore his seed to a new wallet (e.g. wallet recovery) because it's past the default gap limit.
It's a minor issue since he can increase the gap limit or manually generate addresses beyond 20, but an issue nonetheless.

ranochigo

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Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 12, 2024, 07:01:53 PM

Why is it critical for the request to expire and not the address? Who I am requesting it from? I don't see it's utility.

Address doesn't expire and cannot expire. It is irresponsible for any wallet to discard the private key of an address because of an arbitrary expiry time.

The reason for having requests with a fixed expiry is for record keeping. In certain cases, it would be important for people to keep track of the time when funds are being transferred and hence it would be good for users to know when they should receive the funds by and if it has been transferred within that timeframe. For example, if I'm a merchant trying to sell an item, I would want the buyer to transfer the funds within 24 hours, and after which the transaction becomes voided (because my rates are only valid for 24 for example). Having an interface which tells you if the funds has been transferred within a certain time helps me to track my payments from my buyers.

bitcoin talk

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on February 12, 2024, 08:58:41 AM

The expiry time is for the request, not for the address.

Why is it critical for the request to expire? Who I am requesting it from? I don't see it's utility.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 11, 2024, 10:23:05 PM

In electrum would I need to pick under the tab Receive>expires> never expires (address)

The expiry time doesn't matter at all.
Take note that addresses do not expire and you can still receive bitcoin even after the expiry time. The expiry time is for the request, not for the address.

Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 11, 2024, 10:23:05 PM

is it ok to pick 1 week expires and would that mean I still get a 3rd address under Coins tab of electrum if the money was received within 1 week?

Whenever you receive bitcoin (even after the expiry time), you will see the new coin in your wallet.

blockman

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Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 11, 2024, 10:16:25 PM

So it wouldn't matter how many sending addresses you had populated in Electrum it would be transparent anyway?

You can use and generate as much as you can. If one of the address received btc then the other end, the sender, will know that it came from you and it will recorded on the blockchain.

Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 11, 2024, 10:16:25 PM

just use mixers and stick to one address to send from, that's all you need for privacy?

If you value your privacy except from using mixers then just use new addresses whenever you do transactions.

bitcoin talk

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on February 04, 2024, 03:44:17 AM

Coins tab displays your coins and the address associated with each of them. The coins you own are associated with two of your addresses and all addresses are empty. That's why you see two address in Coins tab.
Once a new address of your wallet receives fund, you will see the third address in coins tab.

In electrum would I need to pick under the tab Receive>expires> never expires (address)
or
is it ok to pick 1 week expires and would that mean I still get a 3rd address under Coins tab of electrum if the money was received within 1 week?

bitcoin talk

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Quote from: Z-tight on February 05, 2024, 06:30:29 PM

I don't totally understand what you are asking here, but if you send BTC, the recipient will surely see the address or addresses that were used as input in the transaction, take note that the BTC blockchain is public and transparent, so info about every tx made can be found on the blockchain. However, if you want to hide your address from the recipient in the tx, you can use a mixer, deposit the funds into a mixer and use the recipients address as your receiving address.

So it wouldn't matter how many sending addresses you had populated in Electrum it would be transparent anyway? just use mixers and stick to one address to send from, that's all you need for privacy?

OcTradism

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Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 05, 2024, 05:00:17 PM

And once sent from that third address the other party receiving the funds will see that third address as having sent it?

When you send your coins, you will have to use UTXOs for sending.

There are two possibilities.

If you are sending all coins in UTXOs of one public address, the receiver will see only that address.

If you are sending your coins from UTXOs which belong to different public addresses like 2 or 3 or more, the receiver will see all of those addresses.

Read more there
https://learnmeabitcoin.com/beginners/outputs
https://learnmeabitcoin.com/technical/utxo

Z-tight

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Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 05, 2024, 05:00:17 PM

And once sent from that third address the other party receiving the funds will see that third address as having sent it?

I don't totally understand what you are asking here, but if you send BTC, the recipient will surely see the address or addresses that were used as input in the transaction, take note that the BTC blockchain is public and transparent, so info about every tx made can be found on the blockchain. However, if you want to hide your address from the recipient in the tx, you can use a mixer, deposit the funds into a mixer and use the recipients address as your receiving address.

bitcoin talk

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on February 04, 2024, 03:44:17 AM

[Once a new address of your wallet receives fund, you will see the third address in coins tab.

And once sent from that third address the other party receiving the funds will see that third address as having sent it?

nc50lc

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on February 04, 2024, 03:44:17 AM

Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 03, 2024, 08:51:54 PM

Quote from: nc50lc on January 29, 2024, 01:08:01 AM

You can send ~~from~~ only those 2

How do I get more there, I want to increase from 2 to as many as possible so how do I do that? Why just 2?

Coins tab displays your coins and the address associated with each of them. The coins you own are associated with two of your addresses and all addresses are empty. That's why you see two address in Coins tab.
Once a new address of your wallet receives fund, you will see the third address in coins tab.

I don't know why OP is asking the same question that's been answered multiple times already so I left that question in his last reply.
Or maybe he just missed the previous replies starting from page 1 because of limited free time.

I even gave him an absurd option to increase his available UTXO which is to use pay-to-many, with a note.

@OP The best advice that I can give you is to learn how Bitcoin works (already gave a resource) before asking about how to create more UTXO for privacy purposes (no address reuse).
Because this has been an XY problem where the solution that you're looking for isn't actually helping your original goal.

If you do not have time for research, the solution is: just do not use any of your previously used address to receive bitcoins
and Electrum's coin selection algorithm should select the UTXO(s) that best preserves your privacy, e.g.: use only 1 input as much as possible.
BTW, you don't have any privacy to the server where you're connected to anyways.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 03, 2024, 08:51:54 PM

Quote from: nc50lc on January 29, 2024, 01:08:01 AM

You can send ~~from~~ only those 2 (addresses)

How do I get more there, I want to increase from 2 to as many as possible so how do I do that? Why just 2?

Coins tab displays your coins and the address associated with each of them. The coins you own are associated with two of your addresses and all addresses are empty. That's why you see two address in Coins tab.
Once a new address of your wallet receives fund, you will see the third address in coins tab.

bitcoin talk

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Quote from: nc50lc on February 04, 2024, 12:34:56 AM

Since "ETA" is the default, you should've seen it when setting the fee rate, no?
The fee slider will appear once you clicked "Pay", if you see ETA, click on it and you'll see the other two options, mempool and static.

I don't have anyone to pay at the moment so that explains why I didn't see it

nc50lc

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Quote from: bitcoin talk on February 03, 2024, 08:51:54 PM

Quote from: nc50lc on January 29, 2024, 01:08:01 AM

Electrum has a fee estimation algorithm; "mempool" (based from mempool size) or "ETA" (default, based on Bitcoin Core's) slider.
Select mempool and slide down near the cheapest, it'll show that it's high when... it's high, low if it's low.

I don't see a mempool, which tab is it under in Electrum? I don't see under send tab. Is mempool available on all operating systems so long as you have electrum?

It's available in all OS.

Since "ETA" is the default, you should've seen it when setting the fee rate, no?
The fee slider will appear once you clicked "Pay", if you see ETA, click on it and you'll see the other two options, mempool and static.

bitcoin talk

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Quote from: nc50lc on January 29, 2024, 01:08:01 AM

You can send ~~from~~ only those 2 (addresses)

How do I get more there, I want to increase from 2 to as many as possible so how do I do that? Why just 2?

Quote from: nc50lc on January 29, 2024, 01:08:01 AM

Electrum has a fee estimation algorithm; "mempool" (based from mempool size) or "ETA" (default, based on Bitcoin Core's) slider.
Select mempool and slide down near the cheapest, it'll show that it's high when... it's high, low if it's low.

I don't see a mempool, which tab is it under in Electrum? I don't see under send tab. Is mempool available on all operating systems so long as you have electrum?

nc50lc

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Most of the questions are already covered by the previous replies.

Quote from: bitcoin talk on January 28, 2024, 11:39:04 PM

I can see 2 addresses under Coin tab of Electrum wallet, which means I can send from only those 2, -snip-

You can send ~~from~~ only those 2

Quote from: bitcoin talk on January 28, 2024, 11:39:04 PM

Ideally how many UTXO's should you have at any one point in time in your Electrum wallet?
Is consolidating UTXO's always a good idea?

There's no ideal number since it depends on the wallet's use-case, but preferably, I'd go for lower number of coins but with high amount each so consolidation wont be necessary.
That way, Electrum wont have to use two or more UTXO when sending a transaction with high amount.

In case you received a lot transactions with small amounts like 10's of 0.00001BTC each,
all those 10 UTXO will be spent together as inputs if you want to send 0.000091BTC, each input increases the transaction's size significantly.
The higher the transaction's size, the higher the fee will be.

Quote from: bitcoin talk

How do you find out when fees are low when it comes to consolidating?

Electrum has a fee estimation algorithm; "mempool" (based from mempool size) or "ETA" (default, based on Bitcoin Core's) slider.
Select mempool and slide down near the cheapest, it'll show that it's high when... it's high, low if it's low.

Quote from: bitcoin talk

What's the difference between transferring and sending when it comes to UTXo's fees?
What is meant by UTXO transactions are deterministic?

I don't know either, is there any difference in "transferring" and "sending"?
I have no idea what you're talking about, perhaps you're mixing-up the earlier replies about "HD wallet" and UTXO.
Please consider reading the articles in this website: learnmeabitcoin.com/technical/

bitcoin talk

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Quote from: nc50lc on January 03, 2024, 02:32:31 AM

Your Electrum wallet's balance isn't saved in an account-like form.
It's just the total of the number of UTXO you have in the "Coins" tab, when sending, your wallet is selecting one or more from that list.

I can see 2 addresses under Coin tab of Electrum wallet, which means I can send from only those 2, how do I create more to send from under Coin tab?

Quote from: nc50lc on January 03, 2024, 02:32:31 AM

New addresses that haven't received bitcoins yet can't be used as sending address.

If I receive then that would create the new send address under Coin tab of Electrum wallet?

How do I find out how may utxo I have in electrum?
Ideally how many UTXO's should you have at any one point in time in your Electrum wallet?
Is consolidating UTXO's always a good idea?
What's the difference between transferring and sending when it comes to UTXo's fees?
What is meant by UTXO transactions are deterministic?
How do you find out when fees are low when it comes to consolidating?

a

nc50lc

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Quote from: bitcoin talk on January 02, 2024, 08:04:09 PM

Quote from: nc50lc on December 28, 2023, 04:34:04 AM

-snip-

Your referring to the change address under the Addresses tab of Electrum?
Who created the change addresses? There's quite a few of them there already.

Those are also derived from your seed but with "internal" derivation path, your receiving addresses are derived from "external".

Quote from: bitcoin talk

I still am not clear on how to go about create new addresses that I can send btc from within Electrum. Can this be done? i read everything it's not clear to me.

It's not possible.
This is why learning about the "UTXO Model" is essential to understand it.

Your Electrum wallet's balance isn't saved in an account-like form.
It's just the total of the number of UTXO you have in the "Coins" tab, when sending, your wallet is selecting one or more from that list.
Each of those UTXO are tied to an address from your wallet that received bitcoins already, either via inbound transaction of as change of your previous transaction.
New addresses that haven't received bitcoins yet can't be used as sending address.

Quote from: bitcoin talk

Are you trying to say any excess money left over when I send/receive is sent to the change address column under the Addresses tab?

Yes, you UTXO should be spent whole since it's not an account, but like a whole $20 Bill; if you pay $15 and used that $20 bill, you'll get a $5 change (in Bitcoin, minus the fee).

bitcoin talk

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Quote from: nc50lc on December 28, 2023, 04:34:04 AM

Each of the transactions that you received counts as one.
Also when you send, if there's an excess amount from the input used, it'll be sent to one of your unused 'change address',
thus funded a change address that haven't used to receive bitcoin but technically it's funded via that send transaction as another output.

Your referring to the change address under the Addresses tab of Electrum?
Who created the change addresses? There's quite a few of them there already.

Quote from: bitcoin talk

Note under under send tab there are 3 in credit. Not sure why one has 2 and the other 3.

If the transaction has no change (input's amount is enough for the output and fee), it wont leave a coin to your change address.
[/quote]By input you mean what?

Are you trying to say any excess money left over when I send/receive is sent to the change address column under the Addresses tab?
I still am not clear on how to go about create new addresses that I can send btc from within Electrum. Can this be done? i read everything it's not clear to me.

Topic: address reuse within Electrum (Read 619 times)