Topic: Air gapped wallet printer - page 2. (Read 6348 times)

I wholeheartedly agree, but the last time I checked (and I admit, it's been some time) RNG hardware wasn't cheap, or at least the cheap stuff was awfully slow. Have things improved?


I'm no linux guru myself, and I was frankly shocked that the Ubuntu live CD I downloaded for just this purpose automagically printed to the HP "winprinter" here at my folks' place that I couldn't use under my OS of choice (eComStation, in case you're curious) back when I had a laptop and needed to print something here.

If my experience is typical, all the average Joe needs is a Ubuntu live cd with bitcoin-related tools and some basic instructions.

-Mo

PS - Yes, I was just being too lazy to quote before. Actually, too lazy to allow bitcointalk.org through the script blocker. But I've changed my evil ways...

Is the printing part difficult?  I don't ever print in Linux, but wonder how does the average Joe set up a printer to work with a live CD?  Would he not need drivers, which may very well not exist for his printer?  Or does Linux have support for most of the typical printers out there?

I think any dedicated bitcoin device should have a hardware RNG. The only reason for messing about with such things as input timing is when a hardware RNG isn't available (like on most PCs, for example).

Tuxavant: The device I envision has no non-volatile memory, so keeping track of it is not important - assuming your wallets are worth more than the device, anyway. All that matters is keeping track of the keys it prints. A dedicated wallet generator which is also a wallet vault is very interesting, but not what I'm looking to build.

casascius: Agreed, the low cost of a surplus POS terminal might make up for the disadvantages of thermal paper. But, in a perfect world, the output of the device can be directly tossed in the safe with no intermediate steps.

And a bootable USB device creating jpegs is also interesting, but doesn't meet my aims of not needing to use/reboot your computer. It's just a more convenient version of what I already do, which is unplugging the network, booting a linux live CD, running the BitAddress.org script, and printing the output. But if someone (me, maybe?) wants to create a dedicated live cd/usb image which includes lots of Bitcoin tools (full bitcoin client, BitAddress.org, pywallet.py, vanitygen, password vault, etc.) along with all their dependencies in a ready-to-run-offline form, I'm sure it would be well received!

Thanks, guys, keep the great ideas rolling!

-Mo

For entropy, I would ask someone to press a large number of keys.  The main source of entropy would be the system tick count collected with each keypress.

Agreed that thermal paper has a shelf life, but my first recommendation would be to photocopy it onto normal paper using a copier (could be a multifunction printer, but the important part is that it's not scanned into a computer).  Thermal paper is hard enough to manage for its shape and the fact that it curls, let alone the possibility of the ink fading.  The motivation to use the credit card machines with thermal paper is the low cost of acquisition of the device.

If a multifunction printer must be involved, another promising idea is to create a bootable USB image that does the key generation and dumps the output back to the USB stick as jpegs, which can then be shoved in a multifunction printer for printing.  In fact, this one is extremely practical.  Bootable image could just contain something that runs BitAddress.org's script and renders the output straight to PDF, which most printers can print as well.

For my intended purpose, this device would be an off-line wallet generator and storage device. You only trust the private keys generated by the device until you need to spend the money. That's when you'd display the private keys on the LCD display and sweep them into a private wallet for spending.

Edit: Perhaps displaying the key on the LCD panel might give you the option to actually delete it, or at least mark it "compromised".

casascius: Awesome, I'd never thought of a POS terminal. My idea was to drop a microcontroller into an off the shelf serial printer, but a used POS terminal would probably be a lot cheaper while providing more options. If I knew more C I'd order one off eBay and collaborate with you on it. Maybe this is the excuse I need to crack some books...

MoonShadow: Excellent points. As was mentioned on the linked thread, thermal paper would be nearly useless. I dunno if there are archival-quality labels, but I had in mind a label printer for this. But I'm glad you mentioned that as now I'm thinking it should print the human-readable part of it as large and well defined as possible in case of eventual fading or blurring.

And for entropy, I was thinking that the user would be required, after selecting what sort of key they want and how many copies, to press all of the device's buttons repeatedly and in random order, lots and lots of times.

Keep the ideas comin' everybody!

-Mo

This is an excellent idea, but users need to be warned to use high quality, archive grade paper & ink.  Regular printer paper yellows while regular ink eventually fades and 'blends' marring the sharp edges of the QR codes.  If the key pages also print the keys in a human readable format, this isn't likely to matter within a normal human timeframe; as if the QR code is too blurred to scan well, one just has to sit down and type it in.

I might buy one, if they don't cost too much.  What would the printer do for entropy, though?  Perhaps a simple am receiver to encode the static background?  A regular microcontroller is way too deterministic and simple of a device to not have some kind of deliberate entrophy; otherwise the keys produced are going to have some distinct bias towards a particular set of keys, and there might be address collisions.

Interesting project.

Sounds to me like you're describing POS credit card machine hardware!

I have SDK's for quite a bit of the hardware, but they generally can only run straight C/C++ code and offer very limited library support.  I have already figured out how to get a VeriFone Vx510 to print QR codes on the built-in printer given a text string to encode.  If someone could provide me some straight C code that could do the ECC calculation and the hashing to form bitcoin addresses - with no dependency on any libraries - where I could call a function and supply 32 random bytes and a buffer where the function can drop a bitcoin address and private key - I could compile and sign a program that did this, for everyone's benefit.

I believe I might be able to dig up an SDK for an older model called the Omni 3200, which is also programmed in C.

The advantage to these older models is they're readily available on eBay for cheap.  That Omni 3200 is available used in the $30-$50 range, which is hard to beat.  They are often perfectly good and in plentiful supply, as businesses liquidate them all the time from upgrading or going out of business.

Once compiled, these programs are fairly easy to load on terminals.  At the very least, they are all capable of using the built-in dialup modem to call a server and grab a program.  I have such a server, and the protocol for supplying programming to the terminal is drop-dead simple (similar to XMODEM protocol).

Stephen Gornick: Thanks for the link, looks like I'm (unsurprisingly) not the first to think of this.

dayfall: Those could both be done, but the idea is for this device to be pretty much incompatible with computers so there's no way short of looking over the user's shoulder or breaking into his safe to get the private key.

westkybitcoins: Hadn't thought of multiple copies, thanks! You're right, backups are a must.

Tuxavant: Actually, that was my first idea, have it show a QR code on an LCD. But the second you've scanned that QR code, your air gap is only as good as the device you scanned it into, and if that's good why not just generate the code on it? So this printer would be for folks who want their private key never to have touched a machine that will ever be networked.

But the labels will certainly have QR codes, to minimize the chance of typing mistakes. And the public address label would probably just be scanned in and then thrown away, so maybe I'll consider an LCD display for it and print just the private keys.

Thanks for the input, everybody! Now that I'm past my newbie limits, I'll start a new post about this elsewhere if/when I actually throw something together.

-Mo

This needs a simple LCD display to show QR codes for a truly air-gapped implementation. Count me in for at least one.

I'd certainly be very interested in one of those, IF there was the small additional feature that I could print out more than one copy of a given keypair. Not that I want it to store the addresses/keys; rather, so that I when I push "New Keys", I can tell it how many copies to print.

If I intend to store more than a pittance at an address, I want more than one copy of it and its key as backup, and if I have to scan it into a computer to make copies, that kind of defeats the purpose.

I think it would be possible to program a simple microcontroller to mount itself as a usb mass storage device and to serve up a single image that contains a key that is generated upon powerup.  Or it could write to a SD card which could be inserted directly into most modern printers.  I have built something similar to both of these in the past.  However, I doubt I could get the key generation code compiled on anything.

Some conversation about this topic here:

 - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/offline-paper-wallet-creator-raspberry-pi-74615


There is a market for something like that, I would bet.

Anybody have use for a dedicated wallet generator?

This is an idea I've been bouncing around in my head for a little while now, and I want to see if anybody else is already working on something similar.

I'd like to put a microcontroller in a small label printer, and at the press of a button (or several, for random seed generation) it prints two labels. One has a wallet address, the other has the corresponding private key, both with QR codes.

No computer necessary, instant air gap, open source code.

With some extra effort, it could be expanded to give GPG keys, other currency wallets, etc. Anything you'd normally disconnect and reboot your computer to a live cd for, so long as it uses hashing algorithms that a microcontroller can handle in a reasonable amount of time.

Think I could sell many of these if I started making 'em?

-Mo