AllinCrypto.com - Premier Crypto Poker - 23 Crypto's Accepted - Bonus

panjul07

legendary

Activity: 3500

Merit: 1354

Quote from: shogdite on May 31, 2015, 03:19:48 PM

Quote from: panjul07 on May 30, 2015, 02:04:11 PM

Any news about this site?sold to new owner already?
Tomorrow should be the 2btc freeroll (if its not cancelled)

But just opened my account, went to the lobby and the 2btc freeroll tournament is still there.

Nope sure we would have heard something if it had been sold, I did see a sales thread where a script was successfully auctioned but that is all so far but it doesn't look like the 2btc freeroll will play. No one lost anything and if they did lose a bit of dust contact admin and I am sure that will be returned. Saying that you needed a password for it the last I checked, did you receive a password?

No i did not receive the password, and I'm sure it is because the 2BTC freeroll wont play.
Hope the new owner will relaunch the site sooner, and give another great promotions.

shogdite

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

LIR Dev. www.letitride.io

Quote from: panjul07 on May 30, 2015, 02:04:11 PM

Any news about this site?sold to new owner already?
Tomorrow should be the 2btc freeroll (if its not cancelled)

But just opened my account, went to the lobby and the 2btc freeroll tournament is still there.

Nope sure we would have heard something if it had been sold, I did see a sales thread where a script was successfully auctioned but that is all so far but it doesn't look like the 2btc freeroll will play. No one lost anything and if they did lose a bit of dust contact admin and I am sure that will be returned. Saying that you needed a password for it the last I checked, did you receive a password?

panjul07

legendary

Activity: 3500

Merit: 1354

Any news about this site?sold to new owner already?
Tomorrow should be the 2btc freeroll (if its not cancelled)

But just opened my account, went to the lobby and the 2btc freeroll tournament is still there.

shogdite

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

LIR Dev. www.letitride.io

@ AllInCrypto

I am sure that there is someone here on the forum that would be willing to take a chance on it, I would if my real life family commitments would allow it but being a new daddy, means no disposable income and lack of free time to do what is needed which is a blessing but not for making a success of much else at this time lol

I am thinking would 4-5btc be enough to advertise well enough umm not sure.. I see your signature campaign recently did that not bring much traffic? Surprising if no because there are campaigns that have gone on for months can't see that happening if they was not working.

I really like the clean feel of your site and the name is a gooden Wink

It is secure, and a trusted place to play. I can't see people needing much more once it gets of the ground. Is it possible to make interface changes? There is a few bits I would change in future if you can but not much.

Take care and keep faith.

AllInCrypto

sr. member

Activity: 246

Merit: 250

Quote from: AllInCrypto on May 13, 2015, 02:05:32 PM

Quote from: shogdite on May 13, 2015, 01:29:32 PM

Quote from: AllInCrypto on May 13, 2015, 12:53:54 PM

Quote from: fox19891989 on May 09, 2015, 01:25:43 PM

Quote from: deluxeCITY on May 09, 2015, 01:04:25 PM

Quote from: fox19891989 on May 09, 2015, 12:56:21 PM

I just checked that site 2 days ago, and withdrew my 0.006 btc from there, the withdrawal was successful, and I saw the admin wanna sell this site for only 0.1 btc? Hmm, I think admin you invested more than 1btc on this site, including freerolls and the site script.

I think he gave up because he won't hold that 2btc freeroll and he thought this site is a bad business and investment, I am sorry for your losses admin, not only money, but also energy and hope. Sad

You have confused me no end, where exactly have you found that he is selling the site for 0.1btc lol! Yes anyone who knows anything about bitcoin would know he spent more than 1btc, upwards of 10 most probably. Here is one of his sales thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11191712 and here is the other https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11180014 as you can see neither are anywhere near what you said, where did you get that amount, guess?

haha, it's my fault, I saw it in the bottom of the site, it's ". 10btc" I misunderstood his format, I thought it's ".10btc", so 0.1btc is equal to 0.1btc in math.

10btc is absurd, I think this kind of script costs 0.5-1 btc, many other sites(bitcoinpoker.gg, satoshicarclub.com, cryptopoker.eu) use the same script, so there is nothing unique of this site. Plus the giveaway, this site is worth 1-2btc, because no traffic there. 10BTC is insane. If admin doesn't have faith so this site, how can this site be worth 10btc?

Thank you for your comment filled with completely non-factual information. No, they do not use the same script as us. It was custom written by a team we hired. It has quite a few features that I imagine the other scripts don't. So maybe, before you make a comment, please read what is included with the sale, because it is a custom script. The license for poker mavens costs $500 alone(the poker part of the site). Not to mention the fact that it doesn't accept a payment gateway so bitcoin needs to be integrated as well with a custom script that required hiring a programmer for quite a few hours. So, please, before you comment with crap just to get paid for your sig campaign, read a little bit and do some research.

By the looks of it if you was saying that the 2btc freeroll was on then this would be the best site that person had played on are my thoughts, people who play freerolls only don't really have much of a clue 7/10 , You will get your 8btc price in the end but it is a shame you have to go Sad

Has something in real life came up for this decision or it was just not going where you thought it would? Poker sites in general are black holes for personal funds and if you are short then you are doing the right thing, it will take so much more promotions and marketing to have a chance and the thing is it will take years to get that back if ever most the time.

Many poker sites admin do it because they love poker as I am sure you do and they have a disposable income ready to throw at it like you would with a hobbie. Good luck on your sale and your journey!

It is honestly a mixture of poor timing and advertising funds. A ton of new sites came out all around the same time so the market was flooded. We didn't count on spending as much on advertising as we did. We spent several thousand on ads alone. We love poker and we love having our own poker site, however, it would be better off in that hands of someone who has the funds to advertise and market it the way that needs to be marketed. We spent a lot of money having the script done in the correct, secure way. I was not once worried about funds in the hot wallet. I am proud of the site and the script, but it was just not financially viable for us to keep taking loans as we all have quite a lot of personal responsibilities at this time.

I really like that idea. i will discuss it with my partner as i know we would both personally like to keep going.

katerniko1

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

yeah timing on lunch poker site was teribble it was 4-5 new sites + this one Sad

shogdite

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

LIR Dev. www.letitride.io

Quote from: AllInCrypto on May 13, 2015, 02:05:32 PM

Quote from: shogdite on May 13, 2015, 01:29:32 PM

Quote from: AllInCrypto on May 13, 2015, 12:53:54 PM

Quote from: fox19891989 on May 09, 2015, 01:25:43 PM

Quote from: deluxeCITY on May 09, 2015, 01:04:25 PM

Quote from: fox19891989 on May 09, 2015, 12:56:21 PM

I just checked that site 2 days ago, and withdrew my 0.006 btc from there, the withdrawal was successful, and I saw the admin wanna sell this site for only 0.1 btc? Hmm, I think admin you invested more than 1btc on this site, including freerolls and the site script.

I think he gave up because he won't hold that 2btc freeroll and he thought this site is a bad business and investment, I am sorry for your losses admin, not only money, but also energy and hope. Sad

You have confused me no end, where exactly have you found that he is selling the site for 0.1btc lol! Yes anyone who knows anything about bitcoin would know he spent more than 1btc, upwards of 10 most probably. Here is one of his sales thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11191712 and here is the other https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11180014 as you can see neither are anywhere near what you said, where did you get that amount, guess?

haha, it's my fault, I saw it in the bottom of the site, it's ". 10btc" I misunderstood his format, I thought it's ".10btc", so 0.1btc is equal to 0.1btc in math.

10btc is absurd, I think this kind of script costs 0.5-1 btc, many other sites(bitcoinpoker.gg, satoshicarclub.com, cryptopoker.eu) use the same script, so there is nothing unique of this site. Plus the giveaway, this site is worth 1-2btc, because no traffic there. 10BTC is insane. If admin doesn't have faith so this site, how can this site be worth 10btc?

Thank you for your comment filled with completely non-factual information. No, they do not use the same script as us. It was custom written by a team we hired. It has quite a few features that I imagine the other scripts don't. So maybe, before you make a comment, please read what is included with the sale, because it is a custom script. The license for poker mavens costs $500 alone(the poker part of the site). Not to mention the fact that it doesn't accept a payment gateway so bitcoin needs to be integrated as well with a custom script that required hiring a programmer for quite a few hours. So, please, before you comment with crap just to get paid for your sig campaign, read a little bit and do some research.

By the looks of it if you was saying that the 2btc freeroll was on then this would be the best site that person had played on are my thoughts, people who play freerolls only don't really have much of a clue 7/10 , You will get your 8btc price in the end but it is a shame you have to go Sad

Has something in real life came up for this decision or it was just not going where you thought it would? Poker sites in general are black holes for personal funds and if you are short then you are doing the right thing, it will take so much more promotions and marketing to have a chance and the thing is it will take years to get that back if ever most the time.

Many poker sites admin do it because they love poker as I am sure you do and they have a disposable income ready to throw at it like you would with a hobbie. Good luck on your sale and your journey!

It is honestly a mixture of poor timing and advertising funds. A ton of new sites came out all around the same time so the market was flooded. We didn't count on spending as much on advertising as we did. We spent several thousand on ads alone. We love poker and we love having our own poker site, however, it would be better off in that hands of someone who has the funds to advertise and market it the way that needs to be marketed. We spent a lot of money having the script done in the correct, secure way. I was not once worried about funds in the hot wallet. I am proud of the site and the script, but it was just not financially viable for us to keep taking loans as we all have quite a lot of personal responsibilities at this time.

Sounds like you just needed a marketing partner and to come to an arrangement. Yes as I said the black hole example I can imagine how much you have spent on advertising Sad

You are right as well I think I counted 4 sites around the same 2 weeks as your release which is bad timing indeed.

I feel for you mate it must be hard to walk away, have you thought about starting a thread somewhere on the forum asking for a possible partner to the site? There are people out there that also love poker and I am sure must be one or two on this forum it is just finding them before a sale goes threw.

AllInCrypto

sr. member

Activity: 246

Merit: 250

Quote from: shogdite on May 13, 2015, 01:29:32 PM

Quote from: AllInCrypto on May 13, 2015, 12:53:54 PM

Quote from: fox19891989 on May 09, 2015, 01:25:43 PM

Quote from: deluxeCITY on May 09, 2015, 01:04:25 PM

Quote from: fox19891989 on May 09, 2015, 12:56:21 PM

I just checked that site 2 days ago, and withdrew my 0.006 btc from there, the withdrawal was successful, and I saw the admin wanna sell this site for only 0.1 btc? Hmm, I think admin you invested more than 1btc on this site, including freerolls and the site script.

I think he gave up because he won't hold that 2btc freeroll and he thought this site is a bad business and investment, I am sorry for your losses admin, not only money, but also energy and hope. Sad

You have confused me no end, where exactly have you found that he is selling the site for 0.1btc lol! Yes anyone who knows anything about bitcoin would know he spent more than 1btc, upwards of 10 most probably. Here is one of his sales thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11191712 and here is the other https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11180014 as you can see neither are anywhere near what you said, where did you get that amount, guess?

haha, it's my fault, I saw it in the bottom of the site, it's ". 10btc" I misunderstood his format, I thought it's ".10btc", so 0.1btc is equal to 0.1btc in math.

10btc is absurd, I think this kind of script costs 0.5-1 btc, many other sites(bitcoinpoker.gg, satoshicarclub.com, cryptopoker.eu) use the same script, so there is nothing unique of this site. Plus the giveaway, this site is worth 1-2btc, because no traffic there. 10BTC is insane. If admin doesn't have faith so this site, how can this site be worth 10btc?

Thank you for your comment filled with completely non-factual information. No, they do not use the same script as us. It was custom written by a team we hired. It has quite a few features that I imagine the other scripts don't. So maybe, before you make a comment, please read what is included with the sale, because it is a custom script. The license for poker mavens costs $500 alone(the poker part of the site). Not to mention the fact that it doesn't accept a payment gateway so bitcoin needs to be integrated as well with a custom script that required hiring a programmer for quite a few hours. So, please, before you comment with crap just to get paid for your sig campaign, read a little bit and do some research.

By the looks of it if you was saying that the 2btc freeroll was on then this would be the best site that person had played on are my thoughts, people who play freerolls only don't really have much of a clue 7/10 , You will get your 8btc price in the end but it is a shame you have to go Sad

Has something in real life came up for this decision or it was just not going where you thought it would? Poker sites in general are black holes for personal funds and if you are short then you are doing the right thing, it will take so much more promotions and marketing to have a chance and the thing is it will take years to get that back if ever most the time.

Many poker sites admin do it because they love poker as I am sure you do and they have a disposable income ready to throw at it like you would with a hobbie. Good luck on your sale and your journey!

It is honestly a mixture of poor timing and advertising funds. A ton of new sites came out all around the same time so the market was flooded. We didn't count on spending as much on advertising as we did. We spent several thousand on ads alone. We love poker and we love having our own poker site, however, it would be better off in that hands of someone who has the funds to advertise and market it the way that needs to be marketed. We spent a lot of money having the script done in the correct, secure way. I was not once worried about funds in the hot wallet. I am proud of the site and the script, but it was just not financially viable for us to keep taking loans as we all have quite a lot of personal responsibilities at this time.

shogdite

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

LIR Dev. www.letitride.io

Quote from: AllInCrypto on May 13, 2015, 12:53:54 PM

Quote from: fox19891989 on May 09, 2015, 01:25:43 PM

Quote from: deluxeCITY on May 09, 2015, 01:04:25 PM

Quote from: fox19891989 on May 09, 2015, 12:56:21 PM

I just checked that site 2 days ago, and withdrew my 0.006 btc from there, the withdrawal was successful, and I saw the admin wanna sell this site for only 0.1 btc? Hmm, I think admin you invested more than 1btc on this site, including freerolls and the site script.

I think he gave up because he won't hold that 2btc freeroll and he thought this site is a bad business and investment, I am sorry for your losses admin, not only money, but also energy and hope. Sad

You have confused me no end, where exactly have you found that he is selling the site for 0.1btc lol! Yes anyone who knows anything about bitcoin would know he spent more than 1btc, upwards of 10 most probably. Here is one of his sales thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11191712 and here is the other https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11180014 as you can see neither are anywhere near what you said, where did you get that amount, guess?

haha, it's my fault, I saw it in the bottom of the site, it's ". 10btc" I misunderstood his format, I thought it's ".10btc", so 0.1btc is equal to 0.1btc in math.

10btc is absurd, I think this kind of script costs 0.5-1 btc, many other sites(bitcoinpoker.gg, satoshicarclub.com, cryptopoker.eu) use the same script, so there is nothing unique of this site. Plus the giveaway, this site is worth 1-2btc, because no traffic there. 10BTC is insane. If admin doesn't have faith so this site, how can this site be worth 10btc?

Thank you for your comment filled with completely non-factual information. No, they do not use the same script as us. It was custom written by a team we hired. It has quite a few features that I imagine the other scripts don't. So maybe, before you make a comment, please read what is included with the sale, because it is a custom script. The license for poker mavens costs $500 alone(the poker part of the site). Not to mention the fact that it doesn't accept a payment gateway so bitcoin needs to be integrated as well with a custom script that required hiring a programmer for quite a few hours. So, please, before you comment with crap just to get paid for your sig campaign, read a little bit and do some research.

By the looks of it if you was saying that the 2btc freeroll was on then this would be the best site that person had played on are my thoughts, people who play freerolls only don't really have much of a clue 7/10 , You will get your 8btc price in the end but it is a shame you have to go Sad

Has something in real life came up for this decision or it was just not going where you thought it would? Poker sites in general are black holes for personal funds and if you are short then you are doing the right thing, it will take so much more promotions and marketing to have a chance and the thing is it will take years to get that back if ever most the time.

Many poker sites admin do it because they love poker as I am sure you do and they have a disposable income ready to throw at it like you would with a hobbie. Good luck on your sale and your journey!

AllInCrypto

sr. member

Activity: 246

Merit: 250

Quote from: fox19891989 on May 09, 2015, 01:25:43 PM

Quote from: deluxeCITY on May 09, 2015, 01:04:25 PM

Quote from: fox19891989 on May 09, 2015, 12:56:21 PM

I just checked that site 2 days ago, and withdrew my 0.006 btc from there, the withdrawal was successful, and I saw the admin wanna sell this site for only 0.1 btc? Hmm, I think admin you invested more than 1btc on this site, including freerolls and the site script.

I think he gave up because he won't hold that 2btc freeroll and he thought this site is a bad business and investment, I am sorry for your losses admin, not only money, but also energy and hope. Sad

You have confused me no end, where exactly have you found that he is selling the site for 0.1btc lol! Yes anyone who knows anything about bitcoin would know he spent more than 1btc, upwards of 10 most probably. Here is one of his sales thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11191712 and here is the other https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11180014 as you can see neither are anywhere near what you said, where did you get that amount, guess?

haha, it's my fault, I saw it in the bottom of the site,

it's ". 10btc" I misunderstood his format, I thought it's ".10btc", so 0.1btc is equal to 0.1btc in math.

10btc is absurd, I think this kind of script costs 0.5-1 btc, many other sites(bitcoinpoker.gg, satoshicarclub.com, cryptopoker.eu) use the same script, so there is nothing unique of this site. Plus the giveaway, this site is worth 1-2btc, because no traffic there. 10BTC is insane. If admin doesn't have faith so this site, how can this site be worth 10btc?

Thank you for your comment filled with completely non-factual information. No, they do not use the same script as us. It was custom written by a team we hired. It has quite a few features that I imagine the other scripts don't. So maybe, before you make a comment, please read what is included with the sale, because it is a custom script. The license for poker mavens costs $500 alone(the poker part of the site). Not to mention the fact that it doesn't accept a payment gateway so bitcoin needs to be integrated as well with a custom script that required hiring a programmer for quite a few hours. So, please, before you comment with crap just to get paid for your sig campaign, read a little bit and do some research.

fox19891989

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

Quote from: deluxeCITY on May 09, 2015, 01:04:25 PM

Quote from: fox19891989 on May 09, 2015, 12:56:21 PM

I just checked that site 2 days ago, and withdrew my 0.006 btc from there, the withdrawal was successful, and I saw the admin wanna sell this site for only 0.1 btc? Hmm, I think admin you invested more than 1btc on this site, including freerolls and the site script.

I think he gave up because he won't hold that 2btc freeroll and he thought this site is a bad business and investment, I am sorry for your losses admin, not only money, but also energy and hope. Sad

You have confused me no end, where exactly have you found that he is selling the site for 0.1btc lol! Yes anyone who knows anything about bitcoin would know he spent more than 1btc, upwards of 10 most probably. Here is one of his sales thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11191712 and here is the other https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11180014 as you can see neither are anywhere near what you said, where did you get that amount, guess?

haha, it's my fault, I saw it in the bottom of the site,

it's ". 10btc" I misunderstood his format, I thought it's ".10btc", so 0.1btc is equal to 0.1btc in math.

10btc is absurd, I think this kind of script costs 0.5-1 btc, many other sites(bitcoinpoker.gg, satoshicarclub.com, cryptopoker.eu) use the same script, so there is nothing unique of this site. Plus the giveaway, this site is worth 1-2btc, because no traffic there. 10BTC is insane. If admin doesn't have faith so this site, how can this site be worth 10btc?

arallmuus

legendary

Activity: 2562

Merit: 1414

Quote from: fox19891989 on May 09, 2015, 12:56:21 PM

this site is a bad business and investment

Everything on new poker sites is basically a bad business right now especially if your software are the same as the other 4-5 sites. Not to mention there is a harsh competition on poker sites with swcpoker and also betcoinpoker, just like opening a new dice site nowadays.
Sorry but there is nothing unique except the sites accepting altcoin, not to mention the lack of freerolls each day to attract some players.

deluxeCITY

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: fox19891989 on May 09, 2015, 12:56:21 PM

I just checked that site 2 days ago, and withdrew my 0.006 btc from there, the withdrawal was successful, and I saw the admin wanna sell this site for only 0.1 btc? Hmm, I think admin you invested more than 1btc on this site, including freerolls and the site script.

I think he gave up because he won't hold that 2btc freeroll and he thought this site is a bad business and investment, I am sorry for your losses admin, not only money, but also energy and hope. Sad

You have confused me no end, where exactly have you found that he is selling the site for 0.1btc lol! Yes anyone who knows anything about bitcoin would know he spent more than 1btc, upwards of 10 most probably. Here is one of his sales thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11191712 and here is the other https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11180014 as you can see neither are anywhere near what you said, where did you get that amount, guess?

fox19891989

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

I just checked that site 2 days ago, and withdrew my 0.006 btc from there, the withdrawal was successful, and I saw the admin wanna sell this site for only 0.1 btc? Hmm, I think admin you invested more than 1btc on this site, including freerolls and the site script.

I think he gave up because he won't hold that 2btc freeroll and he thought this site is a bad business and investment, I am sorry for your losses admin, not only money, but also energy and hope. Sad

Ruzka

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 1000

Quote from: SyGambler on May 07, 2015, 10:38:51 AM

I'm really surprised from poker sites requesting action from their players early
you should attract the players

give one reason why players should play in your site if you don't prove that your site is worth the try
take a look to lucky flop
Big fish ( the admin ) ran huge giveaways and freerolls
and now day after day the site is having more players

my point is the site should lose money for sure in the first half year of launching
cause there are many big sites that players can use

and Remember when players like a poker site
this site will make tons of cash

Find myself having to agree with you, things take time and that goes for everything but a poker site even more so. It was only opened a little over a month ago and then they just give up. Not sure what you was thinking when you brought it, Instantly fill the lobby and games? Doesn't work like that it takes work getting a site to be played on a lot and I guess was not work admin was willing to do which is a shame because this place is now a ghost town. Just a heads up your site came out days between another with same software and you had much more traffic than that site, watch in future if they don't close shop as well they will have many players there. Good luck with your sale.

SyGambler

legendary

Activity: 2436

Merit: 1804

guess who's back

I'm really surprised from poker sites requesting action from their players early
you should attract the players

give one reason why players should play in your site if you don't prove that your site is worth the try
take a look to lucky flop
Big fish ( the admin ) ran huge giveaways and freerolls
and now day after day the site is having more players

my point is the site should lose money for sure in the first half year of launching
cause there are many big sites that players can use

and Remember when players like a poker site
this site will make tons of cash

shogdite

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

LIR Dev. www.letitride.io

Quote from: tidus1097 on May 05, 2015, 03:17:47 AM

It was a good site while it lasted. I have nothing bad to say about it. They did honor every commitment they had and then some. Sorry that you are closing down. Wish you the best. GL in your ventures.

I agree it was a good site and could have been an awesome site from the new pokersites that come out, at the same time this was the one I believed would have done the best. They were honest and trustworthy but I don't like the fact that they are trying to bail before fulfilling the 2btc freeroll but everyone has needs and obviously these guys want to move on, good luck OP still hold hope the 2btc plays lol

tidus1097

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 252

It was a good site while it lasted. I have nothing bad to say about it. They did honor every commitment they had and then some. Sorry that you are closing down. Wish you the best. GL in your ventures.

Indamuck

hero member

Activity: 1120

Merit: 554

I like the site - visually it is very clean, and simple. Tourneys always ran on time, even if I was the only one showing up.

OP - don't worry about the FR. You don't owe anybody anything. Whiners will whine ... but we all know these future tournaments floated by new sites are very prospective. I had given it a ~10% chance of running, depending largely on your willingness to bleed ...

There is just too many poker sites right now. It is not your failing.

Rmcdermott927

legendary

Activity: 2254

Merit: 1140

AllinCrypto.com is still available for sale. I have temporarily lowered the price to 8 BTC. There are quite a few details that must be discussed such as what is included and the upcoming scheduled freeroll, so if interested, please PM me. If you wish to test site functionality, let me know and I can go through a walkthrough of all features.

Topic: AllinCrypto.com - Premier Crypto Poker - 23 Crypto's Accepted - Bonus (Read 11665 times)