Alt coin price manipulation is much easier than with BTC - page 2.

gabmen

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Quote from: KwizatzHaderach on November 21, 2017, 03:49:50 PM

With the top 10 alt coins not that easy, but for alt coins with 100MM and below market cap, that is what is always happening.
Until cryptos are fully regulated, this kind of behavior will not stop.

Right. You'd need tremendous amounts of btcs to have at least a chance to move the price. It's not impossible as big whales can do this to any cryptocurrency coin but it takes a lot more for btc than other alts

KwizatzHaderach

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With the top 10 alt coins not that easy, but for alt coins with 100MM and below market cap, that is what is always happening.
Until cryptos are fully regulated, this kind of behavior will not stop.

aardvark15

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Quote from: Kakmakr on November 13, 2017, 04:33:54 AM

Something that became more evident this last week is that Alt coin price pumping/manipulation is MUCH easier than Bitcoin BTC. It only took Roger Ver and his shills a few days to super pump Bitcoin Cash with more than 100%. To have the same effect with BTC, you will have to get most of the BTC whales to act together and this is no easy task.

There are also more BTC exchanges to manipulate than Bitcoin Cash or Alt coin exchanges, so these Alt coin whales can concentrate their efforts for better results on only 1 or 2 exchanges where these coins are traded.

This is going to happen a lot more now, since this was such a huge success for these Pumpers, so be wary. Roll Eyes

With the market cap being so high for Bitcoin, it is harder for a whale to move the price. The market cap is about 4 time that of the next altcoin which is Etherium. And the market caps drop off significantly after that. Basically it’s hard for one person to control enough of Bitcoin to have a big affect. It would probably take a government to buy enough to make that kind of impact at this point.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: Kakmakr on November 13, 2017, 04:33:54 AM

This is going to happen a lot more now, since this was such a huge success for these Pumpers, so be wary. Roll Eyes

This has been happening a lot in the past too. Just nobody used to care, since it was unknown coins with low volumes.
Now some people got rich and want more power or political gains, not only financial. Bitcoin Cash was the big boys' game. They aim control of Bitcoin and will not stop easily.

The rise of exchanges with no common sense rules (usually from Asia) helps the pumpers too. From what I know at Bithumb they've been using a feature to allow them trade without fees.

dinoloverpete

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Quote from: Koadharber on November 20, 2017, 01:26:06 PM

Quote from: dinoloverpete on November 20, 2017, 01:22:31 PM

Quote from: Kakmakr on November 13, 2017, 04:33:54 AM

Something that became more evident this last week is that Alt coin price pumping/manipulation is MUCH easier than Bitcoin BTC. It only took Roger Ver and his shills a few days to super pump Bitcoin Cash with more than 100%. To have the same effect with BTC, you will have to get most of the BTC whales to act together and this is no easy task.

There are also more BTC exchanges to manipulate than Bitcoin Cash or Alt coin exchanges, so these Alt coin whales can concentrate their efforts for better results on only 1 or 2 exchanges where these coins are traded.

This is going to happen a lot more now, since this was such a huge success for these Pumpers, so be wary. Roll Eyes

It's a simple case from an economic perspective, the volume in bitcoin is much larger naturally so it is hard to artificially manipulate it without huge huge amounts of investment. Whereas Bitcoin cash and to an even greater extent some smaller alts are much easier to manipulate with less funds. The day that a group collectively manage to manipulate bitcoin will be a crazy day that will make and break peoples lives in terms of profits or losses.

Manipulation would really be somehow hard on bitcoin because the cap was so big already and it is already being distributed to many users which means it can be easily manipulated unless if theres a group will took up or buy up huge amounts of bitcoins (lets say hundreds thousands of bitcoins ) then i can really give effects on bitcoins price no matter what move they would make.

Exactly, it would take a huge whale or a really well organised collective group, it's just not something that I foresee is going to happen. As time goes by as well there will be less and less people holding huge percentages of bitcoins as they will surely liquidate some of their holdings and that will only make it more difficult to accomplish.

kryptqnick

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Quote from: Kakmakr on November 13, 2017, 04:33:54 AM

Something that became more evident this last week is that Alt coin price pumping/manipulation is MUCH easier than Bitcoin BTC. It only took Roger Ver and his shills a few days to super pump Bitcoin Cash with more than 100%. To have the same effect with BTC, you will have to get most of the BTC whales to act together and this is no easy task.

There are also more BTC exchanges to manipulate than Bitcoin Cash or Alt coin exchanges, so these Alt coin whales can concentrate their efforts for better results on only 1 or 2 exchanges where these coins are traded.

This is going to happen a lot more now, since this was such a huge success for these Pumpers, so be wary. Roll Eyes

I think you are being unfair about bitcoin and bitcoin cash. First of all, bch status is not 100% altcoin, some people say it is actually another bitcoin and they are reasonable in that. Secondly, when bch was pumped, more than a billion of dollars was needed for it. Not that easy, right? Moreover, bch's trading volume was then bigger than that of bitcoin. I am not sure, but I guess it means that pumping bitcoin would have been a lot like that in terms of efforts but bitcoin cash case was easier because of cooperation. 70% was traded btc/krw, whereas bitcoin trading is not so organised and centralized.

wxa7115

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Quote from: tommyvt on November 14, 2017, 10:44:26 AM

Everything can be manipulated so the bitcoin market will be no exception to that. It is not easy but just notice how the bitcoin price can go up and down when news is released. Investors, companies or whoever can publish fake news to influence the bitcoin market. Good news will increase the price of the bitcoin and negative news (like a country banning or taking measures against bitcoins) will result in a price drop... Also dumping a lot of bitcoins at the same time, or buy heaps can influence the market of course but you will need lots and lots of money before you can achieve that. So manipulating the market can be done but it is not always that easy Wink

I think there is a difference between the price being manipulated and the price moving according to the news and events that happen in bitcoin, I think that after we got segwit activated it was natural the price went up, we had waited for so much time for that to happen that when it finally did this created confidence in bitcoin, but what happened in the last week was clearly manipulation from the miners in order to try to make bitcoin cash stronger than bitcoin but it failed.

szpalata

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The marketing budget is very important for the success of any project and if you have a good and substantial ICO project, then you should try to find investors to increase your budget for advertisement. Bitcoin was always used for scams but nevertheless is still successful and people still demand for it. Based on this behaviour people will also continue investing their money in ICOs.

Of course but that's the reason why we need tio scrutinize all ICO's carefully in order to phish out the scam ones because bad people are riding on that to flood the system with shitcoins and scamming unsuspecting individuals as a result.

lighpulsar07

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Indeed price manipulation is much easier to do in atcoin because altcoin has a smaller users and more cheaper than in bitcoin so, a ĺarge whale can manipulate the price by pumping or dumping altcoins and it only requires small amount of money and unlike in bitcoin who is a lot of users it hard for them manipulate the price although they can still affect the price but a little and it requires a lot money to manipulate the price of bitcoin

Doell

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its actually easier to manipulate the price in altcoin due to the factor of a few whales that work together to eat small prey different from the bitcoin that is spread by whales prey on its so that up and down faster ,altcoin also seen from the many enthusiasts then the whales come race altcoin more strange easy to manipulate

G2z_Riya

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Quote from: omashi on November 20, 2017, 03:03:15 PM

sure the smaller the market, the easier.

Yes, compared to the market of bitcoin, what the altcoin has got is very small. So manipulation is simple as well some altcoins make use of those price pumping groups to make the altcoins reach the user network in a easier way thinking it as the real growth.

andrei56

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Quote from: allthingsluxury on November 14, 2017, 10:32:48 AM

Anything with a lower market cap is easier to manipulate. This is true too in the penny stock market. Enter with buy and sell limits and protect yourself. Otherwise sharks will be waiting to hose you.

Correct, and this not only applies to the market cap but it is a law of physics the bigger an object is the harder it is to move it, and the smaller an object is the easier is to move it so it is not surprising this elemental principle also applies to money and price fluctuations.

merchantofzeny

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Quote from: Kakmakr on November 13, 2017, 04:33:54 AM

Something that became more evident this last week is that Alt coin price pumping/manipulation is MUCH easier than Bitcoin BTC. It only took Roger Ver and his shills a few days to super pump Bitcoin Cash with more than 100%. To have the same effect with BTC, you will have to get most of the BTC whales to act together and this is no easy task.

There are also more BTC exchanges to manipulate than Bitcoin Cash or Alt coin exchanges, so these Alt coin whales can concentrate their efforts for better results on only 1 or 2 exchanges where these coins are traded.

This is going to happen a lot more now, since this was such a huge success for these Pumpers, so be wary. Roll Eyes

I think one other thing to note is that these alts are really mostly for pump and dump anyway. These don't have the same wide support and functions as bitcoins. I doubt I'd be able to pay my bills using those alts, like I do with bitcoin.

Trading in general, is very risky, you never know how long they'll keep pumping a certain alt until they decide to dump them all.

omashi

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sure the smaller the market, the easier.

Vatimins

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Well op, i really could not disagree with you even if i wanted to. Because it clearly is the truth and it really has happened. Bitcoin will be next to impossible to pump unlike other coins or tokens out there that have a very low market cap. everyone should be careful of these so called pumps because if not, they will really lose souch momey. More than what they can afford to lose.

SixOfFive

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Agree...Its the sad truth Alt-coin can easily be manipulated than Bitcoin. As market cap of altcoins is way less than bitcoin so manipulation is much easier to make. Moreover Bitcoin holders has already seen many dips and highs so far and now they have faith in it. On the other hand, Altcoins(especially ICO's) often got prey of panic selling.

jagdeepjd

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Quote from: Kakmakr on November 13, 2017, 04:33:54 AM

Something that became more evident this last week is that Alt coin price pumping/manipulation is MUCH easier than Bitcoin BTC. It only took Roger Ver and his shills a few days to super pump Bitcoin Cash with more than 100%. To have the same effect with BTC, you will have to get most of the BTC whales to act together and this is no easy task.

There are also more BTC exchanges to manipulate than Bitcoin Cash or Altcoin exchanges, so these Altcoin whales can concentrate their efforts for better results on only 1 or 2 exchanges where these coins are traded.

This is going to happen a lot more now since this was such a huge success for these Pumpers, so be wary. Roll Eyes

Harsh truth but you are right. altcoins pump is fairly easy as they don't already have much volume and when they get the huge volume they pump highly and easily. In the case of bitcoin cash it was a huge pump lasting more than a day and mostly it was Korean money which was flowing in from bithumb exchange.

And as you mentioned yes it was a great success for the pumpers and this is not good at all for the crypto market. At one point it was like it will go past BTC at the pace which it was moving upward. thankfully that did not happen and we hope that does not happen in near future too.

Koadharber

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Quote from: dinoloverpete on November 20, 2017, 01:22:31 PM

Quote from: Kakmakr on November 13, 2017, 04:33:54 AM

Something that became more evident this last week is that Alt coin price pumping/manipulation is MUCH easier than Bitcoin BTC. It only took Roger Ver and his shills a few days to super pump Bitcoin Cash with more than 100%. To have the same effect with BTC, you will have to get most of the BTC whales to act together and this is no easy task.

There are also more BTC exchanges to manipulate than Bitcoin Cash or Alt coin exchanges, so these Alt coin whales can concentrate their efforts for better results on only 1 or 2 exchanges where these coins are traded.

This is going to happen a lot more now, since this was such a huge success for these Pumpers, so be wary. Roll Eyes

It's a simple case from an economic perspective, the volume in bitcoin is much larger naturally so it is hard to artificially manipulate it without huge huge amounts of investment. Whereas Bitcoin cash and to an even greater extent some smaller alts are much easier to manipulate with less funds. The day that a group collectively manage to manipulate bitcoin will be a crazy day that will make and break peoples lives in terms of profits or losses.

Manipulation would really be somehow hard on bitcoin because the cap was so big already and it is already being distributed to many users which means it can be easily manipulated unless if theres a group will took up or buy up huge amounts of bitcoins (lets say hundreds thousands of bitcoins ) then i can really give effects on bitcoins price no matter what move they would make.

megynacuna

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Quote from: BennyWalker on November 20, 2017, 01:06:06 PM

It is exciting thing that we have in cryprocurrency that there could be such manipulation. It is not illegal) and i think it is just th reality of cryptoworld that such tricks could be performed)) Roger Ver as an old friend of mine told me about his intentions in advance, so I benefited a little bit from Bitcoin Cash)))

Well altcoins until they become established with a greater decentralized market like bitcoin will continue to suffer manipulations every now and then because its easier and people can either input or output a few millions and skew things in their favour.

dinoloverpete

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Quote from: Kakmakr on November 13, 2017, 04:33:54 AM

Something that became more evident this last week is that Alt coin price pumping/manipulation is MUCH easier than Bitcoin BTC. It only took Roger Ver and his shills a few days to super pump Bitcoin Cash with more than 100%. To have the same effect with BTC, you will have to get most of the BTC whales to act together and this is no easy task.

There are also more BTC exchanges to manipulate than Bitcoin Cash or Alt coin exchanges, so these Alt coin whales can concentrate their efforts for better results on only 1 or 2 exchanges where these coins are traded.

This is going to happen a lot more now, since this was such a huge success for these Pumpers, so be wary. Roll Eyes

It's a simple case from an economic perspective, the volume in bitcoin is much larger naturally so it is hard to artificially manipulate it without huge huge amounts of investment. Whereas Bitcoin cash and to an even greater extent some smaller alts are much easier to manipulate with less funds. The day that a group collectively manage to manipulate bitcoin will be a crazy day that will make and break peoples lives in terms of profits or losses.

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