Topic: AML/KYC: the legacy financial system's strategy for strangling bitcoin - page 2. (Read 2939 times)

Not in the US.  Please name an anonymous prepaid card which allows you to withdraw cash from any ATM.  You won't find one, maybe prior to Patriot Act when AML/KYC took a giant leap up in restrictions.

To the OP:

The beautiful part about Bitcoin is that it can't be strangled.

Nobody has to use the ATM.  And Bitcoin will continue in its current form, at least somewhere in the world.

It may be regulated to death in the USA.  That's fine.  The US will miss out on all the innovation.

But nothing will result in a strangulation of Bitcoin.

-B-

It's called Liberty Teller.
http://libertyteller.com
I don't think they have any others outside of Boston - I've never heard of them before today, and I think they're just two people (who I met today when I went there).

If you've got a better plan, I'm all ears.  I've tried several.

That is awesome.  Which vendor+operator is this, so I can start referring to them as the "good vendor/operator" and the others as the "bane of bitcoin"?

This is how it should work; I will be sure to seek out and use these ATMs and recommend them to my friends.  Unfortunately I'm nowhere near Boston.

No, re-read my post.  I'm not talking about people using citibank debit cards.

The Bitcoin ATM in Boston does not require anything other than a QR code corresponding to your wallet for small deposits. If you want to deposit over about $500, this may not be the case, but it seemed to me like you just had to fill out a form.
It certainly doesn't have the technology to read your palm print. It has the technology to take a photo of your face (or government ID) if you put your face in front of the camera intended for QR codes, but there was no indication that it uses that technology. And even if it does, you'd have to put your face in front of it willingly, at the perfect distance for it to get a photo of your face.
I can't speak for any of the other Bitcoin ATMs.

If anything, I've lost more anonymity posting here than making the transaction at the ATM.

The Bitcoin ATMs don't have to work that way but they do need to conduct KYC/AML checks and verifications.  The reason your citibank ATM doesn't verify any information at the time of use is because you are using your citibank debit card, and to obtain that you opened an account, and at the time they opened your account they conducted their KYC/AML checks and verifications.

There is no special "Bitcoin rule" which prevents a Bitcoin ATM from operating the same way.  There is no reason a traditional bank ATM network couldn't offer bitcoins right from their existing ATMs if they wanted to.  

However for a startup that type of model becomes a chicken and egg situation.  How useful is a Bitcoin ATM which requires an account and Bitcoin ATM card when none of your potential customers have one?  How many customers are going to go to your ATM find out it only works for account holders, go back home, open an account with you, enter all their sensitive information, supply you the documentation online, wait for it to be verified, then wait 3-5 days for their Bitcoin ATM card to arrive in the mail so they can then go back to the ATM to use it?  Starting to see why they did verification at the time of use.

Hahaha so let's all just cheer Bitcoin and hope we will be able to escape from Earth before situation for everyone reaches pitch black.

You are fucking retard.

Sorry, I should have said "the success of cryptocurrencies".

Yes, I do think cryptocurrencies are here to stay, for many decades at the very least.

This is a pretty far-out scenario, and while I don't doubt that it's possible I think that retail space travel and colonization of other planets will come first.  At least it will come before something like this is imposed worldwide in every country.

I think their long-term strategy is as follows:

1. Let digital cash live and slowly make everyone use it. Invade privacy as much as possible and overcomplicate "paperwork".
2. Shutdown all physical forms of cash. Require even more "paperwork" to use digital cash and live.
3. Move all "paperwork" to personal implanted chip, used and required for almost everything.
4. Disobedience results in one's chip switched off. At that point one is utterly fucked.

The ultimate control.

I'm not really sure if having a lot of digital cash under such circumstances could be labeled as being rich ... unless one is psychopat, just like
those at the top.


And you dare speaking about big picture long-term?

In the terms of your metaphor, I'm recommending a path to others, and advising them on the big-picture long-term consequences of the "default" path.  My agenda is nothing other than bitcoin's success, and I somehow doubt anybody who didn't share that agenda would be on this forum in the first place (and, if they are, this thread isn't for them).

You don't ever have to use an ATM to get bitcoins.  Likewise, the ATM owner doesn't have to risk jail time just so that people can have anonymous access to his/her bitcoins.

These ATMs are one option of many.  Feel free to choose your own path and be aware that not everyone shares your agenda.

At first I was glad to see the first few bitcoin ATMs coming on line.

Then I found out that they require a palm print, facial photo, and government ID scan.  My jaw dropped.

1. The legacy financial system's ATMs are under none of these onerous requirements.  Any Bank of America, Wells Fargo, or Citibank ATM will happily spit out $500 at a time to holders of anonymous prepaid cards issued from any country on the planet (except possibly Iran and North Korea).  No photos, no ID, nothing.  This is an unbelievably blatant double standard.

2. The user has no idea who this information is being given to or what will be done with it.  Most importantly, there is no guarantee that use of a bitcoin ATM will not be grounds for an IRS audit.  Mark my words, two or three years from now any US person who's ever gone through AML/KYC with any bitcoin-related business, including use of one of these ATMs, will get audited.  The IRS has complete impunity to audit whoever they like, whenever they like, for any reason (including political orientation) or no reason at all.  If they can use audits to repress a wing of the Republican party, I'm sure they can use them to repress cryptocurrencies.  They've already used it to harrass open source projects.

I really think this is the legacy system's strategy for strangling bitcoin.  They've apparently been able to convince regulators to impose AML/KYC requirements on bitcoin-related business above and beyond those imposed on all other money-related businesses.  With that little barrier out of they way they can now simply keep bumping up the regulatory requirements to whatever level is required to make bitcoin more inconvenient/risky than what they're offering.

The people operating these ATMs need to stand up to FINCEN and point this out.  The potential users of these ATMs need to shun those based on an AML/KYC double standard.  Don't accept a level of regulation that exceeds what's imposed on the legacy financial system.  That's the only line in the sand.

Edit: boldified "anonymous prepaid cards" since people seem to be missing that part.