Topic: An easy explanation of why the Fiat capitalistic system is flawed - page 2. (Read 1287 times)
April 26, 2016, 01:54:01 PM
I can agree with you that our current fiat system is flawed. But I think that we can build off the basics ( single currency exchange vs. bartering exclusively) so we can have a sense of standards .
April 26, 2016, 01:40:39 PM
fiat does not = capitalism
Your title is misleading. Sure sounds like you are promoting socialism by criticizing a flawed banking model not exclusive to capitalism, and then calling it capitalism.
Your title is misleading. Sure sounds like you are promoting socialism by criticizing a flawed banking model not exclusive to capitalism, and then calling it capitalism.
No it's not. You're only misinterpreting it.
My title is refering to fiat capitalistic system, simply because it's the current system and that's the one I'm criticizing. I've got no idea what a fiat socialism/communism/whateverism would do as it doesn't exist.
But you see it as a criticize of capitalism, which is not here.
I don't know what would give me that impression, perhaps it is because it is in the title. As far as no communist/socialist states using fiat, I would be surprised if you could show me any communist/socialist state that doesn't/didn't use fiat currency. Perhaps address the real problem, fiat and fractional reserve lending, and leave your communist/socialist bias out of it.
April 26, 2016, 01:34:59 PM
Exactly. And what people don't understand is that this tax is by far more important that whatever amount they pay to the state.
Worst, this tax is not only paid by them! But also by their government ><
Yes, in this context it becomes increasingly hard to speak of 'goverments' at all. When they have so little sovreignity left and accept foreign monetary policies for a cheap bribe, or whats even worse by the popular demand of the people themselves, pumped by the some trivial ideological division. Worst, this tax is not only paid by them! But also by their government ><
April 26, 2016, 01:02:32 PM
It has to be kept in mind that monetary infation does not necessarily mean price inflation, to establish this relationship banks are needed to distribute the new money supply, and so if successful they produce the price inflation. However even if the banks are successful in this, there are questions about whether this is at all desirable and whether this is going to be possible at all in the near future. I think that the mechanisms of monetary policies will become very inefficient with new monetary tech.
If you want to have an economy of export, you devalue your currency, so its cheaper for the buyers with another currency, then over time population's income is adjusted to inflation. The difference between the time of inflation and the adjustment is the actual cost of inflation, the decrease in the buying power of the population. This is the invisible tax paid to the banks and the rich, a tax that actually hurts the part of the population that has the most % of its value stored as currency, mostly the poor that only have their wage, and the middle class with some savings. Why would the rich care if the buying power of whatever money they are holding is decreased, when their businessess, products, land etc. all increase in value disproportionally. Another thing is that is supposed to be beneficial is that loans become cheaper, this has two effects, the people who have a lot of capital can enlarge it even further by taking cheap loans, their loans are profitable, they create capital, and the poor go deeper and deeper in debt because its so cheap and they spend capital. Both mechanisms lead to a greater inequality of money distribution in the long run, and then people wonder why the gap is growing and why our economies are failing. No wonder, its been our money policy for half a century.
If you want to have an economy of export, you devalue your currency, so its cheaper for the buyers with another currency, then over time population's income is adjusted to inflation. The difference between the time of inflation and the adjustment is the actual cost of inflation, the decrease in the buying power of the population. This is the invisible tax paid to the banks and the rich, a tax that actually hurts the part of the population that has the most % of its value stored as currency, mostly the poor that only have their wage, and the middle class with some savings. Why would the rich care if the buying power of whatever money they are holding is decreased, when their businessess, products, land etc. all increase in value disproportionally. Another thing is that is supposed to be beneficial is that loans become cheaper, this has two effects, the people who have a lot of capital can enlarge it even further by taking cheap loans, their loans are profitable, they create capital, and the poor go deeper and deeper in debt because its so cheap and they spend capital. Both mechanisms lead to a greater inequality of money distribution in the long run, and then people wonder why the gap is growing and why our economies are failing. No wonder, its been our money policy for half a century.
Exactly. And what people don't understand is that this tax is by far more important that whatever amount they pay to the state.
Worst, this tax is not only paid by them! But also by their government ><
April 26, 2016, 12:08:13 PM
that is why fiat is always in a continuous
inflating. they want people to spend their
money and do not save it so the
economy can grow up more and they
print more. an unending circle !
inflating. they want people to spend their
money and do not save it so the
economy can grow up more and they
print more. an unending circle !
April 26, 2016, 11:54:43 AM
Thats why we need to feel the bernie. he will stop ether ipo scam and make elite pay their taxes like they did 1960
April 26, 2016, 11:44:26 AM
they have a little credit quotient pyramide scheme going on, while hyping the beneficial effects of inflation on economies
That's exactly the idea!
What's horrible is that noone is understanding it. They don't understand they pay interests on everything.
They'll say "I don't have any loan"
Well maybe you don't, but where does your money comes from? YOur salary? well it comes from a company, which takes money from clients, which earn money through salar... etc... Until at a moment or another someone gets the money from the bank as a loan.
Yes!
This shows that the whole of capitalism and fiat currency as they stand today, are a great big Ponzi. They will crash, eventually. But when they do, the big bankers will have set themselves up with property in ways that don't depend on fiat or capitalism.
The rest of us will simply have lost some or all of our property.
April 26, 2016, 11:31:58 AM
It has to be kept in mind that monetary infation does not necessarily mean price inflation, to establish this relationship banks are needed to distribute the new money supply, and so if successful they produce the price inflation. However even if the banks are successful in this, there are questions about whether this is at all desirable and whether this is going to be possible at all in the near future. I think that the mechanisms of monetary policies will become very inefficient with new monetary tech.
If you want to have an economy of export, you devalue your currency, so its cheaper for the buyers with another currency, then over time population's income is adjusted to inflation. The difference between the time of inflation and the adjustment is the actual cost of inflation, the decrease in the buying power of the population. This is the invisible tax paid to the banks and the rich, a tax that actually hurts the part of the population that has the most % of its value stored as currency, mostly the poor that only have their wage, and the middle class with some savings. Why would the rich care if the buying power of whatever money they are holding is decreased, when their businessess, products, land etc. all increase in value disproportionally. Another thing is that is supposed to be beneficial is that loans become cheaper, this has two effects, the people who have a lot of capital can enlarge it even further by taking cheap loans, their loans are profitable, they create capital, and the poor go deeper and deeper in debt because its so cheap and they spend capital. Both mechanisms lead to a greater inequality of money distribution in the long run, and then people wonder why the gap is growing and why our economies are failing. No wonder, its been our money policy for half a century.
If you want to have an economy of export, you devalue your currency, so its cheaper for the buyers with another currency, then over time population's income is adjusted to inflation. The difference between the time of inflation and the adjustment is the actual cost of inflation, the decrease in the buying power of the population. This is the invisible tax paid to the banks and the rich, a tax that actually hurts the part of the population that has the most % of its value stored as currency, mostly the poor that only have their wage, and the middle class with some savings. Why would the rich care if the buying power of whatever money they are holding is decreased, when their businessess, products, land etc. all increase in value disproportionally. Another thing is that is supposed to be beneficial is that loans become cheaper, this has two effects, the people who have a lot of capital can enlarge it even further by taking cheap loans, their loans are profitable, they create capital, and the poor go deeper and deeper in debt because its so cheap and they spend capital. Both mechanisms lead to a greater inequality of money distribution in the long run, and then people wonder why the gap is growing and why our economies are failing. No wonder, its been our money policy for half a century.
April 26, 2016, 02:30:46 AM
they have a little credit quotient pyramide scheme going on, while hyping the beneficial effects of inflation on economies
That's exactly the idea!
What's horrible is that noone is understanding it. They don't understand they pay interests on everything.
They'll say "I don't have any loan"
Well maybe you don't, but where does your money comes from? YOur salary? well it comes from a company, which takes money from clients, which earn money through salar... etc... Until at a moment or another someone gets the money from the bank as a loan.
April 26, 2016, 02:28:29 AM
fiat does not = capitalism
Your title is misleading. Sure sounds like you are promoting socialism by criticizing a flawed banking model not exclusive to capitalism, and then calling it capitalism.
Your title is misleading. Sure sounds like you are promoting socialism by criticizing a flawed banking model not exclusive to capitalism, and then calling it capitalism.
No it's not. You're only misinterpreting it.
My title is refering to fiat capitalistic system, simply because it's the current system and that's the one I'm criticizing. I've got no idea what a fiat socialism/communism/whateverism would do as it doesn't exist.
But you see it as a criticize of capitalism, which is not here.
April 26, 2016, 01:56:03 AM
'Greater Depression' would be good chance for the crypto currencies to gain a foot hold.
April 26, 2016, 01:25:03 AM
Doug Casey Warns:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da7fBFneMH0
Read more at http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/doug-casey-warns-its-the-next-stage-of-the-greater-depression-the-economy-is-going-to-be-very-very-bad_04252016.
While President Obama took credit this weekend for saving the world economy from a global depression and stock markets are hovering around all-time highs, not everyone is convinced that central bank policy and government involvement in financial markets has stabilized the system.
...
You’ve got to remember that all of these governments and central banks all around the world have driven interest rates not just to zero, but to negative levels in some cases… and they are simultaneously printing up trillions of currency units. And even while they are desperately doing that the economy is falling apart in lots of different ways.
…They’ve created a super-bubble in bonds, a bubble in stocks, and meanwhile commodities have collapsed and are below production costs in many cases.
…The economy is going to be very, very bad… It’s the next stage of what I call the Greater Depression.
...
You’ve got to remember that all of these governments and central banks all around the world have driven interest rates not just to zero, but to negative levels in some cases… and they are simultaneously printing up trillions of currency units. And even while they are desperately doing that the economy is falling apart in lots of different ways.
…They’ve created a super-bubble in bonds, a bubble in stocks, and meanwhile commodities have collapsed and are below production costs in many cases.
…The economy is going to be very, very bad… It’s the next stage of what I call the Greater Depression.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da7fBFneMH0
Read more at http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/doug-casey-warns-its-the-next-stage-of-the-greater-depression-the-economy-is-going-to-be-very-very-bad_04252016.
April 26, 2016, 01:07:39 AM
fiat does not = capitalism
Your title is misleading. Sure sounds like you are promoting socialism by criticizing a flawed banking model not exclusive to capitalism, and then calling it capitalism.
Your title is misleading. Sure sounds like you are promoting socialism by criticizing a flawed banking model not exclusive to capitalism, and then calling it capitalism.
April 25, 2016, 10:17:57 AM
they have a little credit quotient pyramide scheme going on, while hyping the beneficial effects of inflation on economies
April 25, 2016, 10:02:20 AM
Because it indebts everybody, including bankers and government themselves.
It doesn't really indebted bankers though. They take loans at 0.1% and then lend it back at 2%...
April 25, 2016, 09:44:16 AM
Because it indebts everybody, including bankers and government themselves.
April 25, 2016, 09:29:40 AM
OK I m not exactly a fan of capitalism but here is a demonstration not against the capitalism in itself but more the fiat/bank aspect. I m not promoting socialism here ^^
Just awareness on how screwed we are.
It's a very simple explanation but that doesn't mean it's not perfectly true ^^
Two things get us in the shit:
First, fiat system isn't a closed one. It means money is added in the system on a regular basis. You'll tell me, it's rather logical because the amount of wealth in the world always increase so the amount of money has to increase too. Fine.
But the second problem is that money is printed by government (or an institution depending on the government,depends of the country) and given out to the banks, and it's banks jobs to spread the money. Problem is: how do they do that? By giving out loans.
And they do that since the beginning, it means banks earn interests on absolutely every penny on earth! Which means you gotta print more money to pay them,money printed by government and then... loaned by the banks!
It seems just a closed system where banks get everything in the end. Basically, with fiat, we're screwed.
Just awareness on how screwed we are.
It's a very simple explanation but that doesn't mean it's not perfectly true ^^
Two things get us in the shit:
First, fiat system isn't a closed one. It means money is added in the system on a regular basis. You'll tell me, it's rather logical because the amount of wealth in the world always increase so the amount of money has to increase too. Fine.
But the second problem is that money is printed by government (or an institution depending on the government,depends of the country) and given out to the banks, and it's banks jobs to spread the money. Problem is: how do they do that? By giving out loans.
And they do that since the beginning, it means banks earn interests on absolutely every penny on earth! Which means you gotta print more money to pay them,money printed by government and then... loaned by the banks!
It seems just a closed system where banks get everything in the end. Basically, with fiat, we're screwed.
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