An excessive fee is an our future? | Bitcointalksearch.org

pogress

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Quote from: romero121 on February 11, 2016, 04:37:14 PM

One of the reason for the success of bitcoin is it reduced transaction fee as well as time. If that gets increased by 10 times the value of today, People feel bitcoin to be a failed tech. So at any instance it won't happen as days pass the value will grow which will profit miners. So No need of thinking about increased transaction charges in future.

I think the "free or very low fee Bitcoin transactions" slogan which is often used about Bitcoin description in mouth to mouth conversations is very usefull for Bitcoin. It is form of free advertisement for Bitcoin. But with fee market with constantly filled blocks and planned removal of free transactions since Bitcoin Core 0.12, we may limit Bitcoin adoption unnecessary too much in my opinion.

barbara44

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Quote from: bitlost on February 10, 2016, 01:39:09 PM

I don't think so, no. There will be a solution to the increase in the fees, or the use of bitcoin will decrease (and hence the fees). It's self regulated, after all.

Yes, you are right, it will decrease the users of bitcoin if the fee price is increase much above. There should be a limit to the fee, so that people love to adopt bitcoin because of its low fee of transactions.

pinkslink

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Quote from: lixer on February 12, 2016, 07:29:03 AM

But the price should not have to be increased to such a value that people start to leave from bitcoin. It will give to people a fear and adoptable fee structure so that no one will be disappointed.

banks constantly increase fees, does not seem to stop them being used.

i live outside my home country,
but most my money goes in my home bank accounts
to use an ATM abroad for $450 maximum withdraw
one bank charges me 2.5% = $11.25
i then also must pay a $5 Atm fee for using a foreign card
i also lose about 0.5% on poor exchange rate = $2.25

so for $450 i must pay $18.50 giving me $431.50
total of 4.1%

if i just used the card to spend, i would still be charged 2.5%
plus $2 each time i used the card

and this is NOT a credit card, but a normal bank debit card.

there are also many other very common methods of transfer that many people use that cost more,
western union is a prime example, ok there are some that may not cost as much but they ALWAYS cost

so until BTC costs more than 2-4% of a $200+ transaction then its not an issue

pinkslink

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Quote from: Holdaaja on February 10, 2016, 08:50:39 AM

But if 0.0001 would 5$ people wouldn't want to pay that much anymore...
So it would go down and miner wouldn't earn more in fiat.

when 0.0001 BTC = $5
(1BTC = $50,000)

miners have already made enough profit and could reduce fees

you may find in future, big miners will just let things roll as there are as long as they tick over
they should really have a longterm plan

lixer

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Quote from: SFR10 on February 10, 2016, 11:27:35 AM

I wouldn't mind rewarding miners more for confirming the transactions in which if you compare what were paying, even if you double/triple or even more, it's still way lesser than what other traditional or other payments require as a fee so I really don't see this as a problem to worry about (at all).

But the price should not have to be increased to such a value that people start to leave from bitcoin. It will give to people a fear and adoptable fee structure so that no one will be disappointed.

romero121

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One of the reason for the success of bitcoin is it reduced transaction fee as well as time. If that gets increased by 10 times the value of today, People feel bitcoin to be a failed tech. So at any instance it won't happen as days pass the value will grow which will profit miners. So No need of thinking about increased transaction charges in future.

franky1

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Quote from: aarons6 on February 11, 2016, 03:23:42 AM

this will never happen.. there is no reason to believe the price of bitcoin will stay proportional to the block reward.
its not how it works.. miners dont just set the price of bitcoin.

many people think that $1k is possibly in a year. $2k in 2 years. $4k in 3 years time.. $8k in 4 years time (EG 2000% in 4 years. just like the $20 high average($6-$32) of 2011-2012 became $400 in 4 years)

so i did not state aspeculative rise that could be alot higher(spitballing a speculative price of $100k) in 20 years.. i stayed at a modest and lowball figure of $6400 in 20 years

$6400 is very achievable in 20 years.. no two.. but .. 20

Gloober

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At some point mining bitcoin will eventually stop. The way miners can still make profit is to keep a certain precentage every time they mine stuff.

blackraven1425

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There's no such thing as an excessive fee! bitcoin market is self regulated and if fees get woo high, people use it less, and then fees decrese, and so on...

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Quote from: johnyj on February 10, 2016, 08:02:49 PM

People usually don't care about a fee that equal to a small unit in fiat money, so $0.1 would be acceptable for all the people, and $1 would be acceptable for majority of the people

But what will happen if the price reaches to such speculative levels like $10k or something???
Will miners allow the community to lower the network fee's value in BTC???

gregyoung14

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Quote from: BTCLovingDude on February 11, 2016, 08:46:13 AM

Quote from: countryfree on February 10, 2016, 06:38:27 PM

What is an excessive fee?
0.002 BTC?
To send a large sum across the planet in less than one hour, I would say it's a good deal for the service.

I'm not worrying at all about this. I'd gladly pay fees a bit higher, and I would happily accept a minimum of 0.01 BTC to make a transaction. This to make BTC more scalable.

Besides regarding fees, I know they are not the main source of income for miners.

i agree, fees are so low right now that increasing it would not harm the usage by people.

also it depends on the price of bitcoin, the higher the price the lower fees can stay.

and also if the blocks are bigger, they can contain more transaction with more fees total.

Quote from: Amph on February 11, 2016, 03:12:28 AM

Quote from: johnyj on February 10, 2016, 08:02:49 PM

People usually don't care about a fee that equal to a small unit in fiat money, so $0.1 would be acceptable for all the people, and $1 would be acceptable for majority of the people

Yep. I think I'm going to go with this $1. That's the safest way to go.

that true, since those same people are using stuff like paypal that charge a fee which is higher in most case and has a minimum of $1

but on the other hands bitcoin was designed in theory to be with low fee, so having the same fee as paypal in the future is not encouraging

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Quote from: countryfree on February 10, 2016, 06:38:27 PM

What is an excessive fee?
0.002 BTC?
To send a large sum across the planet in less than one hour, I would say it's a good deal for the service.

I'm not worrying at all about this. I'd gladly pay fees a bit higher, and I would happily accept a minimum of 0.01 BTC to make a transaction. This to make BTC more scalable.

Besides regarding fees, I know they are not the main source of income for miners.

i agree, fees are so low right now that increasing it would not harm the usage by people.

also it depends on the price of bitcoin, the higher the price the lower fees can stay.

and also if the blocks are bigger, they can contain more transaction with more fees total.

Akupuniard

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Quote from: NorrisK on February 10, 2016, 12:12:57 PM

Quote from: Akupuniard on February 10, 2016, 08:53:40 AM

Unfortunately, you're not the only one who is thinking about that. Recently I've made some transactions - and fees like 500.000 satoshi when you're trying to pay only a few dollars are upsetting me as well. This is not not normal for a payment system to behave so. At least - not for Bitcoin payment system. This is just expensive, nothing personal. If it goes like that - Bitcoin will not be a currency for everyday use, because people do not spend enormous amount of money on everyday life.

I don't know how you manage to get such high fees for your transactions.. Normally 10.000 should be more than enough, and you can probably get away with less if the size in bytes of your transaction is not too big.

Did you by chance collect a lot of small earnings such as from faucets? A large number of smaller transactions can greatly increase the size of your transaction thus warranting a higher fee.

Bro, I am still here. My wallet has totally crashed, reassembling it from yesterday. Damn 70 GB of blocks are very slow. I will show you the fees as soon as I am done with syncing.

Baudbonny

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Quote from: maokoto on February 10, 2016, 02:34:12 PM

I think that if fees are too high, people will cease to use bitcoin and miners will cease to get fees so none wins. Probably they will adjust to a point of compromise.

People will cease to use bitcoin and miners will increace fees to save earnings. It will cause that people will cease to use bitcoin... Bitcoin going to be forgotten (unstable system).

I hope we have another way: People will cease to use bitcoin and miners will increace fees to save earnings. It will cause that people will cease to use bitcoin... Many miners stop mining --> Difficulty decreace ---> Not so many miners go back... Bitcoin not going to be forgotten (stable system).

aarons6

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Quote from: franky1 on February 10, 2016, 01:36:30 PM

bitcoin block rewards will be enough for atleast 20 years. by that time capacity (transactions per block) would have increased, to allow alot more.

for instance.. todays bitcoin price is $400, meaning miners get $10,000 from block reward.
imagine in 2028 the block reward is 1.5625 and the price of 1 bitcoin was about $6400 (very possible price in 22 years) to ensure miners still get $10,000 per block.

again even then fee's are not an important income stream.. but lets pretend its a bonus

lets say with all the features of LN, segwit, and real blocklimit increases.. that the average block goes from 2500 transactions at 0.0001 (0.25btc fee total)
to 100,000 transactions (equivelent to a 40mb+segwit(again possible in 20 years) and because of bitcoin price deflation.. the fee was 0.00001 instead of 0.0001.. then each person is still paying at most 6cents a tx and miners are getting 1btc per block

remember miners are still getting 1.5btc from block reward and the transaction fee total of 1btc is a bonus. giving them a total of $16,400 income per block.

even if there were zero fee's miners would still get $10,000

so relax there is no mad rush to start making users pay over 10cents a transaction.

this will never happen.. there is no reason to believe the price of bitcoin will stay proportional to the block reward.
its not how it works.. miners dont just set the price of bitcoin.

Amph

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Quote from: johnyj on February 10, 2016, 08:02:49 PM

People usually don't care about a fee that equal to a small unit in fiat money, so $0.1 would be acceptable for all the people, and $1 would be acceptable for majority of the people

that true, since those same people are using stuff like paypal that charge a fee which is higher in most case and has a minimum of $1

but on the other hands bitcoin was designed in theory to be with low fee, so having the same fee as paypal in the future is not encouraging

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Quote from: HeroCat on February 10, 2016, 10:17:02 AM

Yes, this is true. Transfer fees can be much higher in the future and BTC transaction times too Wink

Even nowadays BTC transfer time can be several hours. Angry

But I think it is not true, it will not happen ever in the future. Bitcoin will try to adjust according to the needs and demands of the people, plus it will try its best to compete other available currencies.

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People usually don't care about a fee that equal to a small unit in fiat money, so $0.1 would be acceptable for all the people, and $1 would be acceptable for majority of the people

countryfree

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What is an excessive fee?
0.002 BTC?
To send a large sum across the planet in less than one hour, I would say it's a good deal for the service.

I'm not worrying at all about this. I'd gladly pay fees a bit higher, and I would happily accept a minimum of 0.01 BTC to make a transaction. This to make BTC more scalable.

Besides regarding fees, I know they are not the main source of income for miners.

Patatas

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I believe in near future there would be no independent miners as mining will be completely over taken by mine farmers (Sorry if this is way off assumption but that's just my idea).Eventually,the block rewards will be next to NULL,no miners will be generating profits (even now starting mining is not a good idea),so majority of the mining jobs will be take over by farmers which will have custom or fixed prices depending on transactions per block.

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