An open letter to the miners - page 2.

adamstgBit

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Quote from: CIYAM on March 07, 2016, 01:27:03 PM

Once again we have idiots calling upon other idiots to support larger blocks.

Your greatest fans are AntPool yet if you care to look at the 1 tx blocks over the last few days you'll see that they were all created by AntPool.

So if you think you are actually going to get *more txs* by supporting 2MB blocks then you are actually *very wrong* as the major pool supporting it creates "empty blocks" every day.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14127188

It is a pity that all intelligence has been thrown out of this debate a long time ago.

https://blockchain.info/

AntPool blocks are full, if they mine SOME that are empty because they want to add pressure to the situation all the power to them.

it is not your place to decide how miners should act, no amount of central planning from Core devs will change this.

CIYAM

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Once again we have idiots calling upon other idiots to support larger blocks.

Your greatest fans are AntPool yet if you care to look at the 1 tx (i.e. empty) blocks over the last few days you'll see that they were all created by AntPool.

So if you think you are actually going to get *more txs* by supporting 2MB blocks then you are actually *very wrong* as the major pool supporting it creates "empty blocks" every day.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14127188

It is a pity that all intelligence has been thrown out of this debate a long time ago (maybe you should try and convince AntPool to stop mining empty blocks before demanding that everyone else should support 2MB blocks).

adamstgBit

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Quote from: brownuser on March 07, 2016, 11:28:27 AM

I am afraid that I dont understand ,fully,the options that slush are offering...and yes ,I have done research .A thread such as this :

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/help-slushs-pool-block-sizes-1389933

now sadly locked ,would have allowed some focus on the issue .I am not a coder but I am an active BTC user so it could be said it does not concern me .However ,I am concerned by the working of the currency I use .I want to support a DE CENTRALISED system of exchange and all the evidence is that the BTC is becoming more centralised .Why am I being told that this doesnt concern me ?

B-User

PS....yes,CK ,I know I have the same or similar IP address to Greenuser .I live in the same same building and she is a friend of mine .This DOES NOT make us the same person nor mean we have the same views or goals .I do ,however ,wish to give her some moral support as this is a male dominated environment and I am tired of hearing her complain that she is being belittled by bullies who have the information that she so badly needs to continue in this monetary venture that we call BTC.

i'm not sure i understand everything you're saying here.

but raising blocklimit to 2MB will not have much impact if any on bitcoin's decentralization

bitcoin is a decentralization system, there is no gray area, it might become slightly more expensive to run a node or mine bitcoin in the future as blocklimit is raised again and again but that doesn't make it "more centralized", this BS about bitcoin becoming more centralized is a farce, the fact is mining pools ensure even tiny miner with 52K modem can participate in the network. SPV clients does somthing similar for poeple who want to be there own bank and run a bitcoin wallet on a PC, there is no need to run a full node if you are a simple end user.

furthermore, it's INSANE to ask end users to run a full node, and at the same time ask them to not use the bitcoin network but us Lighting Network, because " theoretically more elegant scaling solution "....

this is BS, once again I BEG miners to TAKE CONTROL!

brownuser

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I am afraid that I dont understand ,fully,the options that slush are offering...and yes ,I have done research .A thread such as this :

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/help-slushs-pool-block-sizes-1389933

now sadly locked ,would have allowed some focus on the issue .I am not a coder but I am an active BTC user so it could be said it does not concern me .However ,I am concerned by the working of the currency I use .I want to support a DE CENTRALISED system of exchange and all the evidence is that the BTC is becoming more centralised .Why am I being told that this doesnt concern me ?

B-User

PS....yes,CK ,I know I have the same or similar IP address to Greenuser .I live in the same same building and she is a friend of mine .This DOES NOT make us the same person nor mean we have the same views or goals .I do ,however ,wish to give her some moral support as this is a male dominated environment and I am tired of hearing her complain that she is being belittled by bullies who have the information that she so badly needs to continue in this monetary venture that we call BTC.

adamstgBit

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Quote from: crazyivan on March 07, 2016, 12:30:20 AM

I thought this issue s been resolved. The only question s when will it get implemented. Why do you raise it again here?

it has not been resolved at the last round table it come out that only a handful out of 50-70 poeple actually support the compromise reached at the other roundtable in HK.

Quote from: Kakmakr on March 07, 2016, 03:05:01 AM

You have the option of rushing a decision and implementing something because you want to fix one thing and then you break something else. We all know bigger blocks = higher security risk. The other option, like the Core people are doing it now, is to concentrate on a manageable increase in the block size and to test the water, before you just dive in. The Classic approach is, reckless in my opinion and only a desperate attempt at a power grab.

They know the Core team have the best solution, but the Classic people focused only on the Block size to gain more favor with the crowd. Why the sudden stress tests from a unknown entity?

thats just plain false.

segwit is infinitely more complex/dangerous than simply raising blocklimit.

Kakmakr

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You have the option of rushing a decision and implementing something because you want to fix one thing and then you break something else. We all know bigger blocks = higher security risk. The other option, like the Core people are doing it now, is to concentrate on a manageable increase in the block size and to test the water, before you just dive in. The Classic approach is, reckless in my opinion and only a desperate attempt at a power grab.

They know the Core team have the best solution, but the Classic people focused only on the Block size to gain more favor with the crowd. Why the sudden stress tests from a unknown entity?

Amph

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Quote from: Foxpup on March 06, 2016, 10:55:18 PM

Quote from: FinalFantasy on March 06, 2016, 10:43:08 PM

Is it crucial if they DONT do it? What would happen ?

It is crucial that they don't do it. Because if they do, they won't be able to spend their coins anywhere, or sell them, since nobody else is running their code. Their coins will be worthless and they'll have wasted their money mining them. It makes no difference whether they have 51% or not. Fortunately, miners are smarter than OP and won't do this.

well but the other edge of the sword, is that also us will not be able to do anything since the transaction will not be confirmed anymore and the network will be 100% insecure

greenuser

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Quote from: 7788bitcoin on March 07, 2016, 01:13:08 AM

At the moment, those who voted for "Anything" are actually stopping us from a clear decision.

The subjet has bee locked by -ck

7788bitcoin

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Quote from: tobacco123 on March 07, 2016, 01:00:16 AM

Quote from: gentlemand on March 06, 2016, 10:36:02 PM

https://slushpool.com/stats/

Slushpool's holding a vote. Most have abstained or not bothered so it's irrelevant but those who have voted are way in the majority for the Classic proposal.

There are 79.56% miners who have not decided which to go for and stick to the default bitcoin core. Is there any way to allow them to mine 50% core and 50% classic?

This will change to % of classic to 79.56%/2 + 16.76% = over 56%!

Maybe there is a way to indicate the miner's wills? Yes/No/Anything. Then the "majority" can be determined by using the number of "Yes" and the number of "No".

At the moment, those who voted for "Anything" are actually stopping us from a clear decision.

greenuser

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Quote from: tobacco123 on March 07, 2016, 01:00:16 AM

Quote from: gentlemand on March 06, 2016, 10:36:02 PM

https://slushpool.com/stats/

Slushpool's holding a vote. Most have abstained or not bothered so it's irrelevant but those who have voted are way in the majority for the Classic proposal.

There are 79.56% miners who have not decided which to go for and stick to the default bitcoin core. Is there any way to allow them to mine 50% core and 50% classic?

This will change to % of classic to 79.56%/2 + 16.76% = over 56%!

How can i get this thread unlocked? https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/help-slushs-pool-block-sizes-1389933

tobacco123

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Quote from: gentlemand on March 06, 2016, 10:36:02 PM

https://slushpool.com/stats/

Slushpool's holding a vote. Most have abstained or not bothered so it's irrelevant but those who have voted are way in the majority for the Classic proposal.

There are 79.56% miners who have not decided which to go for and stick to the default bitcoin core. Is there any way to allow them to mine 50% core and 50% classic?

This will change to % of classic to 79.56%/2 + 16.76% = over 56%!

greenuser

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Marie Curie, 2 x Nobel Prizes Physics & Chemistry

Quote from: schlonged on March 07, 2016, 12:24:49 AM

yes
you must become politically active or you will get schlonged!

No miner representation. Cry

I tried to get people interested in a International Bitcoin Miners Union so we could get some conscientious on such issues but it got jumped on. Plus, no one seems interested. See the link in my signature.

(quick joke: Q) What's the difference between a Doctor and God, A) God doesn't think he's a Doctor Grin

)

edit:

Quote from: greenuser on March 07, 2016, 12:16:45 AM

What should I vote? I was thinking of starting a voting thread

Looks like someone already tried. Shame, the thread was locked in no time.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/help-slushs-pool-block-sizes-1389933
A descution and a vote would have helped me understand. I thaught that was what forums were about
Is this forum is a dictatorship? And closed to a select few?
Looks like we have to do as we are told or fuck off

crazyivan

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I thought this issue s been resolved. The only question s when will it get implemented. Why do you raise it again here?

schlonged

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yes

you must become politically active or you will get schlonged!

greenuser

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Marie Curie, 2 x Nobel Prizes Physics & Chemistry

I have 700Gh/s pointed at Slushpool. They gave me a vote. I have posted on the mining pool threads as i do not know which way to vote. Don't understand the risk, don't trust people to give a straight answer. Will prob go with the flow; and it looks classic at the mo.

I don't think miners share information freely, it is dominated by a few pool owners that (intentionally or not) control debate. Slush has a thread on this forum but it is moderated by one of his competitors so he don't post. Don't seem fair to me. But it is a bit klicky.

What should I vote? I was thinking of starting a voting thread

SFR10

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AFAIK there's an agreement on place for the 2MB upgrade but just without the exact date at the moment. These changes shouldn't be right away as there will be some sort of collateral damage as result so instead it should go through a transitional phase in which will give enough time to everyone to switch. Taking control of 51% of hashing power is not as easy as it looks (easier said than done), and by saying taking control, you mean making in centralized (somehow) on that matter which is the opposite of what BTCitcoin supposed to be.

Quickseller

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Quote from: Foxpup on March 06, 2016, 10:55:18 PM

Because if they do, they won't be able to spend their coins anywhere, or sell them, since nobody else is running their code. Their coins will be worthless and they'll have wasted their money mining them. It makes no difference whether they have 51% or not. Fortunately, miners are smarter than OP and won't do this.

None of this is necessarily true. Part of what gives Bitcoin it's value is it's security, and if a large amount of the hashpower were to suddenly stop securing the Bitcoin network, then some people may wish to join a network that has a higher amount of security (e.g. the network that has 2MB blocks).

Furthermore, the economic majority is in favor of raising the maximum block size, so it would be likely that most Bitcoin related companies would use the 2MB branch of the fork

Foxpup

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Quote from: FinalFantasy on March 06, 2016, 10:43:08 PM

Is it crucial if they DONT do it? What would happen ?

It is crucial that they don't do it. Because if they do, they won't be able to spend their coins anywhere, or sell them, since nobody else is running their code. Their coins will be worthless and they'll have wasted their money mining them. It makes no difference whether they have 51% or not. Fortunately, miners are smarter than OP and won't do this.

FinalFantasy

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Is it crucial if they DONT do it? What would happen ?

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

https://slushpool.com/stats/

Slushpool's holding a vote. Most have abstained or not bothered so it's irrelevant but those who have voted are way in the majority for the Classic proposal.

Topic: An open letter to the miners - page 2. (Read 6246 times)