Topic: Anacyclosis - cycles of society/government (Read 727 times)

Thousands In Sweden Have Implanted Microchips Under Their Skin

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-18/biohack-thousands-sweden-have-implanted-microchips-under-their-skin

If you want to look for a time when humans were in equilibrium with the environment you have to go back much farther then 9,000 year ago. You probably have to go back at least 50,000 years. That appears to be when the human species breached our equilibrium with nature. This period has been described as the Great Leap Forward. It was a fundamental technological, social or evolutionary leap that allowed humanity to break the prior constraints which had kept its population small and limited to Africa.

http://blog.23andme.com/news/the-first-population-explosion-human-numbers-expanded-dramatically-millennia-before-agriculture/

You are saying that religion was and is used as a tool of control and oppression. This is true. It is fact that many ancient societies and their "gods" were used as systems of oppression to justify the rule of the powerful. If you don't understand that you don't understand history. Here is another article that highlights this well.

The ‘darker link’ between ancient human sacrifice and our modern world
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/04/05/the-darker-link-between-ancient-human-sacrifice-and-our-modern-world/?utm_term=.ad86596e364a

There are only two ways to build and sustain a large and complex society. The first is oppression and slavery. The second and far harder path is to build a free society.

I`m sorry, I can`t agree with that in any way.
The fear of God, under my perspective, is one of the biggest problems in humanity right now. To believe that something is controlled by a divine-force, including your life, your desitions, and than everything can be forgive at your last moment...

Let`s talk about how religion is seeking mind-control. When human kind appeared in the face of the earth (more than 150.000 years ago) there where some common beliefs, as something magic related to rain, life itself and so. In the prehistoric art before the first cities in the world it is virtually impossible to find any scene of people fighting other people, but people hunting animals and such. I`m talking about a period in history in which there where few humans, small groups of them, walking in the earth, nomads seeking their haunt and in a total balance with the nature. Then, possibly due to a climate change, the humankind begun to build cities. Soon in the ancient cave-art they begun to paint human vs human fights, grupal rituals and such. It happends arround the 9.000 B.C. (notice how huge period it is). So, when humans come togheter, there is war, bounderies problems and, the most important of all, unequal distribution. Now we have specialists in so many areas: we have agriculture from the first time, walled cities to protect their reserves, war, and religioust specialist to convince people to work. Yes. To convince them. Since the very beggining, fearing a god means too many things:
1.- There are a few knowing (and somehow having) the world of God in them. So they get to have a privileged status and to dictate the norms, because they are the chosen ones. If you make the people to believe that, then they will live forever under the fear and they will believe whatever you want them to believe.
2.- Governments were chosen, as well. So your succeed in life is not longer related to your abbilities, but the kind of blood you have in your veins.
3.- The first tyrant government appeared based on religion status. Only by the fear of something supernatural you can have all this power. Just read the Old Testament.
4.- The legitimacy of unfair power. By explaining everything that can`t be controlled by human kind under the supernatural explanation, and by giving all the possible communication between those supernatural forces and humanbeings to a few, you can make anything legit.
Why the rain is destroying everything? Because you don`t give enough money to church. Why my son is dying? Because you are a siner. How can we stop this to happen? By maintaining a church, a monument, a faraon, a cesar...

 

I have also been concerned about this for some time. I was sub teaching in high schools in South Florida last year, including Douglas, which was close to my home. This was about 9 months before the shooting, And for the record, the kids at Douglas High were exceptionally polite and intelligent, and subbing was a delight. I remember telling a friend how thr kids gave me hope for the future.

That day picked up the book 1984 in the teacher's lounge and read it again after many years. As it described, the mechanism of misinformation, and how easily it was to mold the minds of the public to anything that the powers that be have in mind, it was shockingly similar to the barrage of news, and information, entertainment distraction, etc.we are exposed to every day, and painfully exposing surveillance.  But you're right. It is even worse with us today because this exposure is so voulantary and self-generating. And, yes, it is up to us to use all these amazing tools wisely. Social Media gives us the opportunity to connect worldwide and exchange ideas, but mostly it is used and misused in such a discouraging way. But if anything is  giving me hope, it is just reading the thread in this group. There is consciousness and awareness here,  so not all is lost. Sure it is not the majority on btc forum, but enough to get a few ethical leaders. So thanks again for a great topic and an education and discussion that is worthwhile.  I think we do have to look out for more and more mob rule.

After watching that Snowden's movie it's clear no one can be hidden nowadays and privacy is already gone. There is indeed someone somewhere that can have a detailed report about you in particular anytime, if wished. And there is nothing to do about it, technology brings accessibility, facilities, but also gives more power to those who control/develop it, and what do these powerful people want? To be on control. Consequently they need to watch us closely.

That is one more reason to not do anything wrong in life. If you start bothering a "big guy", a powerful group, their interests, these people will collect enough evidences about you, the mistakes you committed in the past (or any other aspects they know about your life), and will use it against you in the present time, until you aren't a threat to the established system anymore.

In my opinion that is the main issue. Powerful groups of interest use the lack of privacy to take advantage of you, to affect you negatively, unscrupulously. If they were just "curious" about people's lives I think it wouldn't be a problem at all...

Facebook scandal opened this reality to the public, but even without this social media there are another and more efficient methods/technologies that can be used to watch people's movements, I suppose. One another problem nowadays is that anyone who starts talking about this subject is called crazy, conspiracy theorist by the majority, as said above in another post. So the voices are silenced, as no one wants to be seen as crazy.

The variables about what can happen are many and change from place to place (country to country).

Two hundred years ago, a man called Henry David Thoreau wrote: "Men have become tools of their own tools". And thus, in resume, is the idea I`m going to explain...


1984 wasn`t supposed to be a manual, and yet it is. But I believe the world is taking two different paths (but I don`t mean those paths to be in different countries, they can coexist in one country at the time). The first, an Orwellian one, in with the people is controlled (overcontrolled) by the government, at the same time as afraid due to an invented war. An example of that is Mexico, where the population is living under the false impression of democracy ("the tyranny of the ignorant people", as Platon used to say), but where the tyranny is the real statement: they live under the police tyranny, the corrupted government; they live in a nightmare of deceased ones and disappearances... But, yet, they stay in silent, for the false image of a democracy, and the continuous message of fear is really effective. Thus, an Orwellian panorama is happening in many places, but the common feature of this situation to succeed seems to be poverty.

We have the other path: the Huxley`s one, where the people is so distracted they don`t even care. In "A Brave new world" Huxley described how a society can be happy by being ignorant and programmed, by being distracted all the time, by evading insights, thoughts and profounds feelings. Just take a walk on any capital in the world. Go to London, Paris, Madrid, even the "nice" part of Mexico City; go anyplace with some commodities granted. What will you discover?? Huxley`s descriptions: human relationships are cold; people worried about how they look, where they go to take a coffee, what colour they should wear in their hear; what`s trending; how many likes they got today...

Meantime, both paths come together into something terrible: surveillance. I think another user wrote about that in a previous quote. He said something like people is nicely sharing anything, they share their faces, their lives, their personal information, the name of their cousins, parents, sons; they share where they went the last week, where and with who were yesterday hanging out; they share everything, their routines, their medical records, almost!! Because here is where the paths come together: Huxley and his society being occupied, distracted, and Orwell`s surveillance. Neither Huxley nor Orwell couldn't have foreseen the reality: people are willing to do this, to share to renounce to their freedom, to put on the public table all their dreams, their activities and -the worst part- their relative's ones.

This is the world we are building? People are now being conditioned to share everything, so don`t have even an identity. In the world I live, at least -which happens to be in Europe-, all I can see is children growing up in the society of the "sharing", the "likes" and the "trending topics". Will this children understand in a future how damaged it is? No. We are creating a whole new concept of "freetyranny", where the world is taken those mixed paths and drawing a terrible future. Is the society going to change, to evolve? No, I don`t think so. It has happened before, and it will happen again, and again, and again: people willing to believe anything in order to get some public recognition.
All of them are implied. You see, the Congress in the US asking Mr Zuck their questions, is an amazing example. We live in a Facebook world, with all that that implies. A FACEBOOK world, where there is nobody in charge anymore. The society has changed into this facebook world nightmare, and it has been done voluntarily. All the congressmen and women have a Facebook account, every day they share what the people must see of them; every day they use it as a tool, but, surely, every day they also worried about the "likes" and the "views". They are trapped in the game.

How in the hell can humankind come into this? How can be THIS the chosen path?
I can`t answer that question, but, I`m sure, that`s a fact, sadly.
 


 

The people have always been the problem. Human nature is deeply flawed. That ultimately is the common theme in each stage of the cycle highlighted by Polybius all those years ago.

Another problem arises from the fact that we are rapidly growing more powerful.
One man with a knife can only do so much harm. One man with a bioweapons lab quite a bit more. This trend will only accelerate in the years to come.

Without equal growth in moral behavior technological progress must inevitably lead to an ever growing omnipresent state as a logical necessity. Freedom requires self control if the people cannot control themselves the state will grow and step in to fill the role. The more powerful the populace  becomes via technological progress the more self control the people will need to have if they wish to be free.

I see little chance that any moral progression will keep pace with technological progress. Thus I suspect the future will inevitably be less free then the present.

In any convergent social system where a group of people are located, starting with 150 or more people, an archetype ecosystem is formed in which a divergent unit of thinking appears, exhibiting deviant behavior with probability 1. This is a kind of "randomizer generator" "this allows a person to be identified in humanity . In the minds of each of us there are these 150 archetypes. The problem is that some of them are suppressed. And this happens as long as humanity remembers itself. And there is a way to balance the mind by turning it off from reality - it's psychoactive substances. At least tetrahydrocannabinol (contained in marijuana) is able to re-install most systems in humans, correcting its ability to reflect the objective reality.

The language of technology is convergent and unambiguous, in order to be soulful humanity it is also necessary to develop a new ways of imaginative thinking and communication. Not only new money is needed, but a new language is also needed.

The future is connected with the development of communication methods and a new language - psychoactive substances will help us to create it. The most important thing is not to follow the path of consumption in the sphere of psychoactive substances. With this you should to be treated with respect and trembling. This is a responsible game with a soul.

Remember, there is always a way of existence under which a person becomes uncontrollable. And governments, in turn, can not simply take and destroy such people, especially if they are the majority. Play, do not stop, be carried away and gonna be obsessed with your ideas, then they will not be able to control you..

Reading trough all you comments here I want to show you the bigger picture, you may not agree with.
1984 is just a small fraction of what is coming towards us, / or is already here/.
The governments are just puppets they are nothing, same as presidents or kings, . The people sitting behind them are the big problem.
Let me illustrate it so you get my point >



Talking about religion, well I'm christian but still, it's the same with all the other religions, just tool of control, fear ..


Call me a crazy conspiracy theorist but projects like MKUltra and the Monarch developed by the very own government are not something people would like to hear about. Some of the victims are speaking out the truth now, after so many years.
All those mass killers are not coincidence, I guess Assange can also speak out, did you ever wonder why he is always with white/blonde/ hair?
Let me add some more hot topics >

The "Clinton Body Count"


And the pedophile ring..


This is gonna be just a brief post, there is so much to discuss, but the time is not enough.

We already living in 1984 but we do not see it. The food you eat, the air you breath, the water you drink, everything is controlled, you are thoughts are controlled by the TV, Media, your Phone tracks every step you do. Everything is under under observation, you cannot escape.

Yeah, bitcoin gives you just a small whiff of fresh air but we have to do more to be free. Freedom is just illusion, as is the democracy, the people's voice is silence, why? Because THEY don't want you to be able to think and to fight against THEM.

They want to be GOD, and sadly they are.

That scenario unfortunately strikes me as very probable.

There is perhaps currently a push away from that direction in the US but I suspect it represents only a temporary reprieve.

The current financial boom is simply the result of leveraging debt based stimulus for everything it is worth. When the value of fiat starts to progressively erode as it must and unsustainable promises and benefits are threatened I very much doubt the populace will ask for less control and redistribution but demand more. The increasing rise of automation will further concentrate economic power into the hands of the few resulting in ever larger numbers of government dependents. This will exacerbate the problem.

My hope is that there are other forces at play  currently or in the future that will alter this trajectory. Unfortunately, I do not know what those might be.

Anonymint when he was still around offered one of the more hopeful alternatives I have come across in his hypothesis of a future knowledge age.

The Rise of Knowledge

I am less confident then he is about the path from our current position to his hypothesized future.


Your welcome, the signature is just a collection of links to various things I have found interesting. A couple of them are short video clips. A few point to particularly interesting blogs of others elsewhere. Most are links to some of my prior posts in other threads that I thought people might find interesting.

The worst part about that is how freely the majority of the world has taken steps towards this scenario by choice. I fell into an interesting generation where I can still see the technological "progress" for what it is and is not. I can also admit that *life has gotten in the way a bit and I have only recently began focusing more on what information I want to share with the world and what I do not. I assume anything I put out there is in fact available to anyone at anytime.

The simplest example to me currently has been the way I am now targeted by every Crypto ad, or GPU rig component ad, every time I open a site. The same was being done with targeted political messaging/propaganda; so I feel society needs to be educated on the value of finding that tiny space in your life that is out of sight and sound of the screen.  Without that space it is hard to tune out the terrible atrocities committed by Eurasia and Eastasia.


I would like to as well. I enjoyed the Agentofcoin read the first time I saw it thanks for the refresher. I plan to spend a few nights reading through your SIG.

I've also been getting increasingly worried about that possibility. What worries me most is a 1984-style scenario where the game is constructed such that even the people "in charge" can't escape. If someone is in charge, then there's some hope, since I think that almost everyone is at least a little decent, and even most tyrants would not want to completely crush all freedom and virtue. But with technology, I could see humanity trapping itself utterly in some perpetual machine with no freedom or progress of any kind.

I do think Bitcoin offers a hope of escape or at least resistance over the longer term.

Polybius was clearly a very insightful individual and his writings highlight the fact that human nature has not really changed much over the last 2000 years.

The cycle was articulated with a slightly different focus by Henning Webb Prentis, Jr in the 1940's but it is the same basic idea.


I think that cryptocurrency will force reform of fiat currency. The scenario traincarswreck
presented is one where bitcoin will force fiat to more closely approximate nash's ideal money over time and this forced reform will probably happen. Traincarswreck thesis was unnecessarily hard to follow but it was in the following thread.

Open Letter to GMaxwell and Sincere Rational Core Devs
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/open-letter-to-gmaxwell-and-sincere-rational-core-devs-1809999

Trainscarswreck process of reform, however, leads logically to a single world centrally controlled nashian currency from which it is very easy to fall into the tyranny AgentofCoin outlined.

I would prefer to be utterly wrong in my analysis of this probable future.

Your right difficulty would skyrocket in any coin globally adopted and introduced. I feel that would be what drives that financial systems pricing and value as well as inflation. My point was that everyone would be on a somewhat leveled playing field. Anyone currently wealthy would obviously still be able to secure a greater share of the networks hashing power; thus i guess restarting the cycles


In the current form the cryptocurrency market is a secondary financial ecosystem. Comparable to something like Disney land bucks; not sure if they exist never been.

The billions of dollars have value and are available for trade and barter because we within the system give it value. So until the system stops equatting it to say a USD value; it's more of a disruption to the norms of the financial and taxation systems than anything.

EDIT: Edited spelling errors and autocorrect

There is a chance, too many of them actually being announced in this forum. even if you start over with Bitcoin mining, you'd increase the mining difficulty as soon as the second miner starts mining.


Is it really that hard? if Billions of dollars being freely transferred every day is not breaking the cycle I don't know what else could be considered to be a cycle breaker.

Thank you for this, it's not often I find myself reading anything insightful these days.
Also thank you to diagaran for posting a link to this thread.

I do often find myself tuning out the realities of the world we live in, not so much for the blissful ignorance but to give myself a break. I think if you look around the world today you can find almost every one of the 7 stages currently taking place. Unfortunately (my view) mob rule appears to be the one sticking out the most in my mind. This is mostly due to the fact that under democracy everyone's voice is supposed to carry equal weight. Unfortunately with that equal weight their is not the same onus on being equally informed. You can ask 10 people to weigh in on a serious political discussion and you'd be lucky to find 2 that have enough information or awareness to be informed.

Sadly you could ask the same 10 people something about big brother/kardashians/random pop culture icon flavor of the month; and the majority will be more engaged than they have been about any political or society related issue ever. Regardless of views on governments I currently live within a democracy bordering on a slide towards mob rule; in the form of populism based on fear mongering. While my country is not as bad as some I find myself having a harder time conducting serious conversations with people who have cherry picked their facts from random sites on the internet.

To go back to topic a little more I myself feel we will see less and less of the cycle reverting to Monarchy and Kingship unless, we have an extinction class event; man made(most likely) or not. I do believe that we have more so done mini cycles going from a MOB rule to Tyranny and then transitioning into aristocracy. The early days may have the feel of Monarchy and Kingship but I think in most cases this is a short lived period.

In regards to Crypto being able to break the cycles; it's hard to say. This cycle was born out of human nature and we are still a factor in the Crypto ecosystem. We already have people claiming the virtuous path and trying to gear Bitcoin to their vision. There is already large amounts of consolidated wealth that grows larger by the day. The reason I don't feel that Crypto in it's current form will break the cycle is that not enough of society has adopted it at it's inception. If when the world has universally adopted Crypto a coin is launched with everyone having access to it in the beginning there may be a chance. Although I feel we will just create a new cycle until we can find our way beyond the self preservation of human nature and move towards a species preservation mindset.

That will be fine until; "When owing to floods, famines, failure of crops or other such causes there occurs such a destruction of the human race as tradition tells us has more than once happened, and as we must believe will often happen again, all arts and crafts perishing at the same time" Quoted from OP; The Histories

This should be changed to [mod-rule].

In my arrogant opinion, this forum is a small version of the world outside. I think we already had the jumping on women and now entering in to the violence and mob-rule phase.

The word "predict" is not the right term, sounds religious, not fit to Polybius because he's historian which was the reason why he understood the situation and the 7 cycle already happening before and during his time.

Yes!

Mix except monarchy, democracy (I was tempted not to include democracy because of misusing it for personal gain, like in a country where democracy exist, communist use the system to pursue their goal, not just the communist but also the evil government officials are hiding in it, and the some reason that lead confusion to a simple country man), and aristocracy.

Removing politics from life will never happen, why? Because it is life who created the politics. And even bitcoin reach its purpose it will not works perfectly to break the garbage because it is inside of everyone's heart.
Read this:

And thus the hope that bitcoin wants to offer is just a false hope.

Society will not taste the success without the form of leadership, thus bitcoin will just a false savior for man's longing and could be another thing of disappointment.
For me the only way for bitcoin to bring  great success, it should be under the rule of a good monarchy system controlled by aristocrats. Aristocrat according to Socrates is someone who is selfless, has the heart for his country, well educated and full of wisdom.
I read remember in his book he says " the country should be lead by aristocrats in order to experience peace, equality, and success" (this is paraphrase)

Lastly, bitcoin will never experience success for its very purpose without the back up of the noble leaders.

Precisely. We have in our hands' amazing technology, such smartphones (smart??) and look at what use the people gives to them: Facebook, Instagram, and this stuff where you have animal faces (I don't know what are they), etc.
They don't use technology to download marvelous books, to read, to learn, but to share their beach photos and their morning-flowered coffees. Even when most of the people are aware of the Facebooks scandal, they don't care, for the entertainment and the ignorance is all they seek, as in a Huxley's nightmare.

In the times of Polybious, people were few compared with today and, yet, he was able to read society and to understand the cycle of nonsense. With all the advances having place each day, the common of the population prefers to stay ignorant and to follow the mainstream thoughts, despite they have all in the palm of their hands (obviously I refer only a part of the population). We must add to this, perhaps, the crazy increment of the population, this insane reproduction of a species, as cancer growing on the surface of the Earth. But, even so, the behaviors haven't changed much from the last 3.000 years.

So, yes, Bitcoin, I'm afraid, has not enough power to reach the minds of the people, it can be used (someday) by them, but as another useful tool, not as a concept. All the internet creation was a revolution, back in the 80s. And look the result: a nightmare of surveillance even Orwell couldn't see, for it is a voluntary surveillance, made happily by the people.
If Bitcoin was seeking anonymity in its ideological fight against the system, the bank... well, people are not interested, they prefer their coffee-pic, their selfies, and their gym.