Topic: Android Electrum 3.3.8 SPEND Problem (Read 367 times)

I'm not a mod, so I can't. But you can do that yourself... in the bottom left corner, you'll find the "lock topic" link.

Amazing you achieved legendary status with a mind like that.
Everyone has different strengths. Doesn't mean you should discourage them when they ask for help.
Ask me for help on how you can help a family member recover from cancer so I can tell you no, just eat some good food.
And for the record, if you took the time to read more carefully, I made and kept the private seeds/keys, I just asked him to build the hardware.
This thread is over, go run your numbers up on another thread.

HCP feel free to archive.

i think you should just keep your bitcoins on coinbase. electrum is not for you. there's no point in using electrum if you have to trust some tech guy with your private keys/seed.

You're reading it wrong... the "pending transaction fee in BTC" gives an indication of how much BTC in total has been committed across ALL transactions with a fee rate of 1000 (or higher) sats/byte.

It isn't an indication of how much you'll pay in total for your transaction... as that is defined by (fee rate chosen * total size of your transaction). The total size of your transaction being calculated based on number of inputs and number of outputs... inputs have different sizes (ie. native segwit < nested segwit < legacy) which is why "SegWit saves on fees"... smaller transaction size = smaller total fee to be paid when you select the same fee rate.

The most useful of those graphs are:

- "Unconfirmed Transaction Count" - The top chart. This gives a general indication of how many unconfirmed transactions are waiting... ie. how "busy" the network is currently... once this starts get up above 5-10,000... the fee rates start climbing.
- "Mempool size in MB" - The bottom chart. This shows the fee rates being paid by all the unconfirmed transactions. Remember, 1 block will take about ~1meg of transactions. So if you hover over the chart and see something like this:


We can see that there is almost 1 megabyte of transactions that pay a fee of 2 sats/byte (or higher)... so, if you use 1 sat/byte... chances are you're not going to get in the next block as there is already THREE blocks worth of transactions at the 1 sat/byte level... and even at 2 sats/byte, there is a good chance you might not get in the next block as that is almost already at 1 meg of transaction and other users could add in transactions with higher amounts.

If you want a quick confirmation, and the network isn't too busy... generally you can aim for the level that is around 0.5 or 0.6 MB... and you should be ok... so in this example... if you pay around the 4 or 5 sats/byte fee rate, chances are good you'd get in the next block.

There are some caveats to that... like if 10000 people all send transactions in the next few minutes with higher fee rates, you'll probably end up missing out etc... but that's why the first chart can be important. If the network isn't too busy, like only 2-3000 transactions waiting, you might be OK... but if there are like 10000+... you really want to aim right up in fee rates around the 0.3 MB or less area (IF you need quick confirmation).


No... your transaction was 225 bytes... and you paid 1.404 sats/byte... so as above:

(fee rate * transaction size) = total fee
1.404 sats/byte * 225 bytes = 315.9 sats = 0.00000316 BTC

So you paid 0.00000316 BTC (or 316 sats) to send that transaction. NOTE: It would have cost you that regardless of the amount you sent... which is why sending very small amounts is not a very good idea, as the fee as a percentage of the total cost gets higher and higher, the smaller and smaller the amounts you're sending is!

ie. 0.00000316 BTC to send 0.00000600 BTC means you would have spent 0.00000916 and effectively ~33% is fees ... wheres 0.00000316 to send 0.00100000 BTC is 0.00100316 in total and 0.3% paid as a fee.

Also, the "sat/WU" metric has come about since the advent of SegWit... WU == "Weight Unit"... and is used because of the way SegWit transactions work. Instead, transactions now have a "Weight"... effectively, 1 byte = 4 WUs... and a block now has 4,000,000 WU's max size (1,000,000 bytes max block size * 4 = 4,000,000 WUs)

You can probably just ignore it all for now, as you're likely still dealing with older legacy private keys/addresses... so just stick to sats/byte and you shouldn't be too far off. Generally, a simple transaction that has 1 input and 2 outputs (payment + change) will be about the 225 bytes mark... so you can work your calculations off of that.

Thanks for everything.
I prefer its graphical presentation as well. I just like the BlockchainInfo website and figured they had something similar.

I'm looking at the 2nd graph "Pending Tx fee in btc" and the legend isn't making sense to me. Looking at the 2hr chart for today
at 13:12pm that peak says 1000+: 0.005btc
so the 1000 is sat/byte, if you sent then you would be paying .005btc or 500,000sats to send 1000sats

That sounds very high, I know its a lot lower only a minutes later but my tx fees on my mobile don't seem to match. They might   match with BlochchainInfo  

Is there a online calculator for this stuff. I'd by happy to do it old school on a regular calculator if I understood it.

Here is one of my tx fees
_____
0.00000316 BTC
(1.404 sat/B - 0.351 sat/WU - 225 bytes)
_____
makes no sense, I can't even break it apart correctly, does it read...
"At a rate of 1.404 sats per byte the tx cost you 0.351 sats, because your tx was 225 bytes in size"
my head is spinning, because it looks like at cost me 316sats to send those 600 sats at the slowest speed.
Is there a website I can stare at and read it until I get it?
thx

that's all for now you guys been a lot of help. (but feel free to send a link to that last question? )

No idea sorry... I always use the jochen-hoenicke site... I find the graphical representation easy to follow and the by hovering over the end of the chart can see the breakdown of the fee levels etc.

I assume you're mobile device only?


The error has nothing to do with your "fees"... you're creating dust outputs... which is basically anything less than 0.00000546 BTC (for legacy outputs).

Make sure that both the amount you are sending and any change likely to be created is higher than 0.00000546 BTC and the transaction should be able to be sent OK.


NOTE: If you're not wanting to "play" with larger amounts, then you should consider using TestNet as mocacinno advised earlier... although, if you only have your mobile device, I'm not sure how to switch Electrum to TestNet on a mobile... I only know how to do it with the desktop version.

Thanks for the new comments and yes a hardware wallet sounds like a good idea. But first still trying to accomplish my first SPEND. Ran into a hiccup.

[/quote]
Should be able to yes... just remember to check what the network is like so you can see fees appropriately etc... https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/ If you see BIG spikes and lots of transactions showing as unconfirmed, it's a bad time to test, as fees will be high and confirmations can take a while
[/quote]

I'm looking at the Blockchain dot Info / charts page and specifically at the, 'Mempool Transaction Count' looks the most similar to the German site you sent above, but it only gets as granular as 30 days. Is there a better comparison on BlochchainInfo, perhaps  'Mempool Bytes Per Fee Level'?


Also my attempt to SEND to myself failed, the error was,
'The server returned an error when broadcasting the transaction. Consider trying to connect to a different server or updating Electrum. Transaction could not be broadcast due to dust outputs.'

I did some searching and switched the wallet off of AUTO and made it choose one server and then tried the 5 different fee levels from 1 sat to 29sats. I of course first tried just paying the most fees at 29sats and left it in AUTO.
I then raised the amount I was sending from 40 sats to 400 and 4000. Thinking if the 'full boat' 29sats/bit rate was really coming out to over 6000sats maybe the amount i'm sending needed to be a lot higher or basically no miner whats to bother. If I send 7000 you think it will go thru?

Finally my phone was on my secured wifi at my house, (with my mobile data turned off) should I have just let my mobile connect as usual to the tower? Could have caused the error?
thx

I think that is not necessarily the only option. If you don't have the software anymore but you have only 24 words in a piece of paper, this is a paper wallet (in my opinion).

---

llbit,
I am going to suggest you to buy a hardware wallet, Ledger Nano S or a Trezor One. They are cheaper , easy to use and much safer than your "tech guys".

You can buy a ledger nano S for less than 100 usd. They are compatible with electrum.

I see you're testing sending and receiving, maybe it's interesting for you to look at the testnet?

Most wallets have testnet versions (altough i'm not completely sure electrum for android has one; electrum for desktop defenately does), and there are free testnet faucets (i'm actually running one myself). That way you can test with the testnet version of your real wallet, using worthless tBTC and you won't even bloat the mainnet blockchain... Just my 2 satoshi's tough...

It's just an estimate... and while they're generally not toooo bad, there are always things outside of the control of everyone that might screw it up. For instance, miners might get "unlucky" and not find any blocks for an hour, the mempool floods with 10s of thousands of unconfirmed transactions and your transaction gets stuck at the bottom etc.

Or you could be like "screw it, I don't need it in a hurry" and send with 1 sat/byte fee expecting to wait until tomorrow... and then the miners get lucky and find like 4 blocks in a few minutes and your transaction gets included.

I've had both things happen before... but generally, I'm always like "screw it, I don't need it in a hurry"... so I pretty much always just send with 1 sat/byte and let it ride

When I look in 'Wallets' the default wallet is 9kb and the test wallet is 10kb, hopefully that is the difference between watch-only and not watch-only. So I'll leave it alone until I get this down pat.

Thanks for the reminder on checking the network/mempool I think right? I was thinking to send everything with the minimum as I have time on my side and I can always practice the child/parent move to push things along.

So your saying these mobile/desktop wallets estimation of time is usually not very accurate?
Electrum is saying for 0.00000040sats:

wait 1 block (approx 10min) and pay 29sats/byte which comes out to 6950sats / .50 cents
or on the other extreme
wait 25 blks (approx 250min/4h10m and pay 1.1 sats/byte
and of course 3 choices in the middle.

Thanks again!

If it is a straight clone of the "test" and has exactly the same address/balance... You can probably delete it without too much issue (especially if you still have the paper with the private key on it!)... but probably best to just leave it and ignore it for now until you are 110% sure you don't need it for anything.


Should be able to yes... just remember to check what the network is like so you can see fees appropriately etc... https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/ If you see BIG spikes and lots of transactions showing as unconfirmed, it's a bad time to test, as fees will be high and confirmations can take a while

Ok, got it. My former tech guy made me HD wallets he made from a dual laptop air-gapped setup that was to complicated for me to remember once he left.

I use the name "Paper" wallets as that is what I learned about first and went to him for help with and he said Bitaddress.org wasn't to be trusted. I never did get the bootable ubuntu flash drive with bitaddress loaded on in order to made paper wallets properly. Which is the best way I think to set oneself up. Paper for long term storage-(not to be touched for years) Hardware/Ledger for what you think you'll use that year, and a mobile to keep $100 on and pull from the Ledger.

Anyway, you made progress because I actually pressed "on" the wallet name "default wallet", the type is "imported" and I missed the other one named "test" which was also imported. The new tech guy made both as they both have the same balance. Difference being the "default" says "watch-only", which is the one I was trying to use and the "test" does NOT say "watch-only".

Can I simply delete the watch-only wallet or now that I know, just leave it alone and don't use it.

So if I bring my other HD wallets onto my mobile I can practice sending and receiving between them, yes?
thx

No... A seed phrase is a backup for a HD (hierarchical deterministic) wallet. These wallets generate multiple private keys/addresses from that seed. Granted, most of these wallets will tell you to write your seed phrase on a bit of paper, but they're not typically called "paper wallets".

like I said a "paper wallet" is generally just one single private key/address.

If you did the "import bitcoin address or private key" option... there is NO option to type in the private key in Electrum Android... you can only use "PASTE" from the clipboard... or the QR code scanner:



And what does it say for "wallet type" if you tap the wallet name at the top of the main window?

I appreciate the help but not sure why you would say paper wallets don't usually have "seeds". What little I know they are the most important part.

We definitely used the Private key I recall now because we had a letter that was under case which was suppose to be a capital letter. once we figured that out it worked. I can't remember everything exactly but we didn't choose the normal 1st choice I think it was the last one that says Import existing wallet.
Then entered the seed, made a password, then entered the Private key via typing in the long address starting with the "L".

I check the "wallets" by choosing the 3 dots and just one wallet 'default wallet' and no "watch-only" message.
thx

See... this sounds wrong. Paper wallets don't (usually) have "seed phrases"... paper wallets are generally just a single private key/public address combo... and you either import that private key into a wallet (fyi, not possible to an Electrum wallet that already has a seed, has to be a new wallet or an "imported" wallet)... or you sweep the private key to an existing wallet.

It sounds like the wallet you currently have is "watching only" and was created using the "address" and not the private key. If you click the the wallet name at the top of the screen, what does it say for "Wallet Type"?

And if you click the "3 dots" menu button and then select "wallets" do you see multiple wallet files listed?

Hmm, this sounds bad, I'll let others asses your "situation".

Anyways, those are the only options you can get after clicking "pay" if your wallet is watch-only.
If it's a normal wallet, it'll be sent right away.

Click the wallet name on top of your screen, is there something like "This wallet is watching-only"?

But if you got the private key, create the wallet yourself, it isn't that hard (follow my instructions above).
A valid WIF private key should start with either '5', 'L' or 'K'.
[/quote]


Thanks,
I don't know about bad, there are just some pieces of the sequence that are obvious to me yet.

Hopefully someone else comments.
The unofficial link was ver 3.1.1 otherwise it probably would have given me the answer I was looking for.
The WIF is L.
If the wallet is made correctly and I make another with the same Pub and Private keys and seeds, will it even let me or do I first have to delete the wallet I'm trying to work with here?

The wallet does not say watch-only at the top. I know what that looks like because that's what happened to me the first time I tried to do it myself, which is why I went to find someone for help.

Hmm, this sounds bad, I'll let others assess your "situation".

Anyways, those are the only options you can get after clicking "pay" if your wallet is watch-only.
If it's a normal wallet, it'll be sent right away.

Click the wallet name on top of your screen, is there something like "This wallet is watching-only"?

But if you got the private key, create the wallet yourself, it isn't that hard (follow my instructions above).
A valid WIF private key should start with either '5', 'L' or 'K'.

I appreciate the quick reply...

Thanks for the memory jogger. Even though I'm definitely a noob, this isn't a watch-only.

The short version is the tech guy of my team moved away after making the paper wallets.  I found a new guy and he helped me get the paper wallet on the phone (for a fee of course). So after we entered the seed phrase (and private key I believe) to be able to see the wallet on the phone I immediately used it to pay him. Of course he was doing everything so fast I couldn't commit it to memory. Which is why I'm trying to spend and receive back and forth to myself to get comfortable with it, but these gui's (in my opinion) are just not obvious enough for me.

---

Yes those are the links I was referring to. I looked thru those for spending instructions.

So, you've created an "imported watch-only wallet" from the address of that private key?

Instead of importing the address, import the private key instead to create an "imported wallet".
To create a new wallet, click "Menu->Wallets->New"; to select the correct address type,
paste the private key after "p2pkh:" for legacy '1' address, "p2wpkh-p2sh:" for '3' SegWit or "p2wpkh:" for native 'bc1' SegWit.

That's a QR code representation of your unsigned RAW Transaction in case you want to import it to a wallet that contains the private key(s) for signing purposes (Cold-Storage setup).

Here are the guides for Electrum:
official: https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/faq.html
unofficial: https://bitcoinelectrum.com/how-to-send-bitcoins-using-electrum/