I think that's a very nice suggestion. Even 5 million would take a very long time to reach since we were only seeing around 30K CATS per day before the difficulty increase. Food for thought: For the price per coin to maintain itself, CAT would have to have a 21x greater market cap by the time there are 21 million coins. That is the problem presently plaguing DOGE -- note how the CoinMarketCap.com data does not accurately reflect the experience of DOGE investors, most of whom will have lost money if they invested in DOGE post-Cryptsy.

Quote from: Mooshi on January 02, 2014, 11:16:16 PM

Quote from: zerodrama on January 02, 2014, 11:05:18 PM

Quote from: Reece523 on January 02, 2014, 10:53:14 PM

Pump and dumpers buy when the price is low. The price is not low at present, it is what the market is prepared to pay for a coin that is about to be forked. The price honestly seems too high to me. There is a ton of resistance before 0.0007, so what is the purpose in paying 0.0006+? If you want in on CATS, you might as well do your part to help prices crash and let everyone who wants out undercut each other. Then when the fork happens, people who genuinely believe in CAT will have CATS and people who don't won't. That is how prices are going to rise, not by discouraging nonbelievers from selling by artificially raising the price now.

I'd be fine with a fork to fix the retargeting issue, but I'm mostly suggesting to people supporting the Bitcoin-in-scrypt idea. If you like the idea, support it by investing in it. Either with hash, or by buying to raise the profitability. You would not need a huge buy order, just bump the price in the right direction. Pump-and-dumpers do it all the time, so don't tell me that it's impossible.

Pump and dumpers create meaningless prices.

If it forks without the BTC specs, it's dead. You might have a 6 hour retarget, which means you'll have bigger problems in the future from ADHD users who stuck around and will dump much harder when it gains its true value.

Either way, who wants a coin driven by a bipolar mining swarm? Seriously.

There are other alt coins doing just fine without being a direct clone of BTC that this comment is completely moot.

Maybe CAT can go the BitBar route and rethink the theoretical max coin amount. It's 21mil, yes? Since the target is already intense, maybe dropping the max will help value rise. While it's below CAT, BitBar are worth 40usd+ a piece. If CAT went from 21mil to maybe 5mil or whatever is agreed upon, value will rise. Anything rare gets more value by default.

envy2010

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Quote from: zerodrama on January 02, 2014, 11:05:18 PM

Either way, who wants a coin driven by a bipolar mining swarm? Seriously.

Someone spent enough on Doge to drive the market cap to 7.5 million USD, so obviously someone wants it. Probably the same ones making up the bipolar swarm in the first place.

Mooshi

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Quote from: zerodrama on January 02, 2014, 11:05:18 PM

Quote from: Reece523 on January 02, 2014, 10:53:14 PM

zerodrama

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Quote from: Reece523 on January 02, 2014, 10:53:14 PM

Pump and dumpers create meaningless prices.

If it forks without the BTC specs, it's dead. You might have a 6 hour retarget, which means you'll have bigger problems in the future from ADHD users who stuck around and will dump much harder when it gains its true value.

Either way, who wants a coin driven by a bipolar mining swarm? Seriously.

Reece523

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Quote from: envy2010 on January 02, 2014, 10:46:50 PM

Quote from: atheistftwins on January 02, 2014, 10:33:35 PM

Both of these are unsustainable propositions. These are just manipulation strategies at best, especially the buying coins method. Yes, the first method could raise the hashrate which would lead to shorter blocktimes which would resolve this current crisis temporarily, but how long do you think you can ask people to mine at a loss before it is unsustainable?

The second method is completely impossible. If the hash rate is very low still and you attempt to place a huge buy order to raise the prices people will flood to sell. That buy wall will be vaporized before miners even realize it has become profitable to mine again. Whoever ultimately did that will be bagholding a huge amount of CAT which will almost immediately drop back down again and the hash rate will not get better.

The ONLY way to fix this is to fix the difficulty retarget settings itself.

lmfsthefounder

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Just want to remind everyone of the Catcoin android app, Catprice.

The app is free and gives you the latest price, volume and trade time from cryptsy.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=stringtheory.cryptos.cat

Hope you like it. Tips appreciated. 9USyAkBMqrZ2y3Hc4jkPjGe55YHsFVAt5D

envy2010

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Quote from: atheistftwins on January 02, 2014, 10:33:35 PM

etblvu1

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Quote

These are just manipulation strategies at best, especially the buying coins method.

You know, it all comes down to how much we believe in the potentials of these coins, and what they could be worth one day. Everyone who holds coins, are in your sense engaging in a "manipulation strategy" by refraining from dumping the coins for USD's. If everyone who held BTC's dumped them on the markets to get any USD's they could today, we'd see BTC's drop to less than a penny apiece right away. Certainly, it's probably not a good idea to buy coins they aren't willing to hold onto for awhile, projecting a rise later. But on the other hand, if someone is convinced coins are going to rise a lot later based on their understanding of the fundamentals and invest something to make sure they are holding a large quantity of these things which they expect to go up, they are happy to hold the "bags" of gold they expect to cash in for big profits later.

atheistftwins

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Quote from: etblvu1 on January 02, 2014, 10:29:03 PM

Quote from: envy2010 on January 02, 2014, 10:16:56 PM

Quote from: AnnaNeMuss on January 02, 2014, 10:08:39 PM

I suggest that we rent miners to push through 1800 blocks and take them off before the difficulty change.

Would it not be more cost-effective to simply buy CatCoin on the exchanges, pushing the price up, therefore pushing the profitability up, thereby encouraging miners to jump back in?

I haven't looked closely at the depth of the market, but it looks like 5 to 10 BTC would buy up most of the CatCoin available under 0.0008 BTC.

Agreed, it would be much cheaper to simply buy more CatCoins. People who say they support Catcoins but have had to switch to mining other coins out of economic consideration, should consider buying Catcoins with the earnings from mining other coins, as an alternative means to support Catcoin. This should have a similar effect as if they mined Catcoins outright, by raising prices, and attracting more miners.

I did the math on in effect renting miners (you can accomplish the same thing by offering to subsidize miners with a subsidy large enough per block mined, to bring profitability in line with other coins) - suppose you pay 50 CATs per block found. Then you would have to pay out about 50,000 CATs over the next 1000 blocks or so. That is horrendously expensive. Now, the same 50,000 CATs is roughly 35 BTC at .0007 CATs/BTC. Hypothetically, if you put a buy order for 25,000 CATs at .0014 (for the same 35 BTC), you'd instantly double the profitability for the coin for the forseeable future.

etblvu1

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Quote from: envy2010 on January 02, 2014, 10:16:56 PM

Quote from: AnnaNeMuss on January 02, 2014, 10:08:39 PM

I suggest that we rent miners to push through 1800 blocks and take them off before the difficulty change.

zerodrama

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Quote from: tx42 on January 02, 2014, 10:19:38 PM

Quote from: zerodrama on January 02, 2014, 10:06:42 PM

Long term recalibration means people have to make long term decisions based on real world long term spans of interest in real world long term projects.

You want miners, who are by nature opportunists, to work for the long term interest of the coin at their own personal costs? Such miners don't exist because of real-world concerns, like return on investment and opportunity costs.

Look at the lead developer. His present real world concerns has put his own coin on the back burner. Don't expect miners to act any differently.

You're proving my point.

The rabbit on crack whining has driven away the lead developer to deal with, wait for it, real world concerns.

Maybe he'll come back when people start acting real world.

But my lack of faith should not disappoint you.

tx42

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Quote from: zerodrama on January 02, 2014, 10:06:42 PM

Long term recalibration means people have to make long term decisions based on real world long term spans of interest in real world long term projects.