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Topic: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! - page 61. (Read 470761 times)

full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
January 08, 2014, 06:09:43 PM
I sent him 200 CATs. More if we can get the price up  Grin

Currency   Send to Address                                      Amount                   Conf   Request Date
CatCoin   9p14KjgEPrRMHGdcfc5QpoeDaN4yQjWXm8      200.10000000 CAT   Yes   2014-01-08 18:01:08
Processed   TrxID: 6ec25de75bc9a160d73fb9d8774c4934b0261dcf2f6ae3948be84b3bcc5cbd7a @ 2014-01-08 18:10:10


+5

quit bitchin' and https://github.com/kR105/catcoin/fork show me some code, or at least send KR105 some catcoins.

I've proposed something non-simple ( https://bitbucket.org/dahozer/catcoin/wiki/Stake-mine ), but what a very simple change: retarget *every* block based on the last 36 blocks.

Fair? Say yes and give me a block number and I'll run it on my p2pool node and post the code.

I like it Smiley, you will need to contact the exchanges with your updated wallet.
sr. member
Activity: 271
Merit: 254
January 08, 2014, 06:09:32 PM
I've received a lot of hate from several people via PM about me "abandoning MY project", that people invested real money into this, that I shouldn't be able to sleep with the damage I've done to people letting the price of the CAT go down, etc etc.
This is not MY coin, I don't control it and I don't decide its price. This coin is property of everyone who holds any amount of CAT and trust me when I say that I only have a very few amount of them. Please go and blame the people who hold dozens of thousands of CATs (not me) and didn't donate for giveaways or bounties when they were made with hopes to promote this feline.
Because the robbery happened into my house I had to take a 2nd job that is now using most of my previous spare time, so I can't work on the coin like I did before. But hey, this is a community, patches are accepted on the Github repo and you don't need my help to promote the CAT or create services around it. Do you?

It will be at least several weeks until I can get enough free time again to donate to non profit (for me) internet projects. So I will be accepting patches, suggestions and OP modifications requests in the meanwhile (If you get a consensus about the current situation of the difficulty changes, then I will implement it, just like I did on the hard fork). If you want this cat to be successful, take some action yourself! Don't keep waiting someone else to do the job for you.

+5

quit bitchin' and https://github.com/kR105/catcoin/fork show me some code, or at least send KR105 some catcoins.

I've proposed something non-simple ( https://bitbucket.org/dahozer/catcoin/wiki/Stake-mine ), but what a very simple change: retarget *every* block based on the last 36 blocks.

Fair? Say yes and give me a block number and I'll run it on my p2pool node and post the code.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
January 08, 2014, 06:04:50 PM
cheerup kr please - the community needs you!
those who sent dev hate PM please free to write sorry with some CATs attached. Wink

CATs unite!
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
January 08, 2014, 06:04:18 PM
There needs to be a cap of 20% on difficulty increases, and 30% on difficulty decreases.
I can't think of anything else that needs to be changed.
Retarget time is good. Block rewards and such are good. Max coins is good.
Literally the only thing fucking with us are the large hashrate coin jumpers.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
January 08, 2014, 06:02:32 PM
I've received a lot of hate from several people via PM about me "abandoning MY project", that people invested real money into this, that I shouldn't be able to sleep with the damage I've done to people letting the price of the CAT go down, etc etc.
This is not MY coin, I don't control it and I don't decide its price. This coin is property of everyone who holds any amount of CAT and trust me when I say that I only have a very few amount of them. Please go and blame the people who hold dozens of thousands of CATs (not me) and didn't donate for giveaways or bounties when they were made with hopes to promote this feline.
Because the robbery happened into my house I had to take a 2nd job that is now using most of my previous spare time, so I can't work on the coin like I did before. But hey, this is a community, patches are accepted on the Github repo and you don't need my help to promote the CAT or create services around it. Do you?

It will be at least several weeks until I can get enough free time again to donate to non profit (for me) internet projects. So I will be accepting patches, suggestions and OP modifications requests in the meanwhile (If you get a consensus about the current situation of the difficulty changes, then I will implement it, just like I did on the hard fork). If you want this cat to be successful, take some action yourself! Don't keep waiting someone else to do the job for you.

Ignore the haters, they just need a scapegoat and you are an easy target.
We still need that fork that I mentioned though. I could do it but there is a trust issue.
I was wondering if you could do it? I'll give you 200 CATs right now for whatever you need.

Saludos de Argentina amigo Chileno!

Before we rush ahead with another fork, could we do it right this time and discuss how it's going to be implemented, and what sort of ramifications it would have? The exchanges aren't going to be happy with another fork. The pool situation last time nearly killed Catcoin on its feet. If there is to be a second fork, it needs to be done right. Single purpose. Slow, methodical, and with consensus. Everything gets discussed here, and then it gets put to a general vote once it's been discussed in detail.

I do like your ideas though.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
January 08, 2014, 06:00:25 PM
I've received a lot of hate from several people via PM about me "abandoning MY project", that people invested real money into this, that I shouldn't be able to sleep with the damage I've done to people letting the price of the CAT go down, etc etc.
This is not MY coin, I don't control it and I don't decide its price. This coin is property of everyone who holds any amount of CAT and trust me when I say that I only have a very few amount of them. Please go and blame the people who hold dozens of thousands of CATs (not me) and didn't donate for giveaways or bounties when they were made with hopes to promote this feline.
Because the robbery happened into my house I had to take a 2nd job that is now using most of my previous spare time, so I can't work on the coin like I did before. But hey, this is a community, patches are accepted on the Github repo and you don't need my help to promote the CAT or create services around it. Do you?

It will be at least several weeks until I can get enough free time again to donate to non profit (for me) internet projects. So I will be accepting patches, suggestions and OP modifications requests in the meanwhile (If you get a consensus about the current situation of the difficulty changes, then I will implement it, just like I did on the hard fork). If you want this cat to be successful, take some action yourself! Don't keep waiting someone else to do the job for you.

I know you've gotten some negative PMs, but please believe me when I say there are a lot of people here trying very hard to promote this coin, and while your support and efforts are greatly welcome, we understand if they cannot take absolute priority over more pressing matters.

I hope you get back on your feet soon, and thanks for spending the time you have on Catcoin. I certainly agree that some big holders of Cat would be doing the currency they've invested in a great service by donating some of it to yourself. As the Dev you deserve a stake in its future too.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
January 08, 2014, 05:59:11 PM
I've received a lot of hate from several people via PM about me "abandoning MY project", that people invested real money into this, that I shouldn't be able to sleep with the damage I've done to people letting the price of the CAT go down, etc etc.
This is not MY coin, I don't control it and I don't decide its price. This coin is property of everyone who holds any amount of CAT and trust me when I say that I only have a very few amount of them. Please go and blame the people who hold dozens of thousands of CATs (not me) and didn't donate for giveaways or bounties when they were made with hopes to promote this feline.
Because the robbery happened into my house I had to take a 2nd job that is now using most of my previous spare time, so I can't work on the coin like I did before. But hey, this is a community, patches are accepted on the Github repo and you don't need my help to promote the CAT or create services around it. Do you?

It will be at least several weeks until I can get enough free time again to donate to non profit (for me) internet projects. So I will be accepting patches, suggestions and OP modifications requests in the meanwhile (If you get a consensus about the current situation of the difficulty changes, then I will implement it, just like I did on the hard fork). If you want this cat to be successful, take some action yourself! Don't keep waiting someone else to do the job for you.

Ignore the haters, they just need a scapegoat and you are an easy target.
We still need that fork that I mentioned though. I could do it but there is a trust issue.
I was wondering if you could do it? I just sent you 200 CATs right now for whatever you need.
Help us get CAT back to it's glory days and I will personally hook you up Smiley

Saludos de Argentina amigo Chileno!
member
Activity: 109
Merit: 10
January 08, 2014, 05:56:40 PM
Finally you wrote something on board.

One of these PMs is mine. I think it is not a big problem to log in everyday for some time, join irc channel, show other people that you live. I am promoting CatCoin on a big polish site, and people think that coin is dying because owner abandoned it and development is finished. Remember that people look at you. You are business card of this coin.
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 501
January 08, 2014, 05:48:41 PM
I've received a lot of hate from several people via PM about me "abandoning MY project", that people invested real money into this, that I shouldn't be able to sleep with the damage I've done to people letting the price of the CAT go down, etc etc.
This is not MY coin, I don't control it and I don't decide its price. This coin is property of everyone who holds any amount of CAT and trust me when I say that I only have a very few amount of them. Please go and blame the people who hold dozens of thousands of CATs (not me) and didn't donate for giveaways or bounties when they were made with hopes to promote this feline.
Because the robbery happened into my house I had to take a 2nd job that is now using most of my previous spare time, so I can't work on the coin like I did before. But hey, this is a community, patches are accepted on the Github repo and you don't need my help to promote the CAT or create services around it. Do you?

It will be at least several weeks until I can get enough free time again to donate to non profit (for me) internet projects. So I will be accepting patches, suggestions and OP modifications requests in the meanwhile (If you get a consensus about the current situation of the difficulty changes, then I will implement it, just like I did on the hard fork). If you want this cat to be successful, take some action yourself! Don't keep waiting someone else to do the job for you.
full member
Activity: 213
Merit: 100
January 08, 2014, 05:43:12 PM
The correlation between value and any network statistic (difficulty, blocktime, hashrate) is poor at best. Getting that info from a source outside the network (exchange etc.) is pretty sketchy. How do you propose to make the loyalty mechanism at all sensitive to value?

This is an excellent question. I do not think we as a cryptocurrency ecosystem have a stable universal API yet to pull coin exchange information to build into a coin as yet - it would be unwise to build a coin on the API of specific exchanges - so we have to rely on other factors.

There are factors which we can obtain with 100% certainty from the blockchain itself - which avoids reliance on any external data - which can be helpful. They are:
1. Current difficulty level - which can be used as a reasonable stand-in for the aggregate network hash rate at the start of the current difficulty level
2. Previous difficulty level(s) - which can be used as a reasonable stand-in for the aggregate network hash rates at the start of respective difficulty levels
3. Which wallets address received block awards during the each of the current and previous difficulty eras
4. Anticipated forthcoming difficulty level if the change were to happen now - which can be used as a reasonable stand-in for knowing the aggregate network hashrate at present

Although we cannot derive current market value based on these factors - we can use these indicators to pinpoint when there is or is about to have high demand to mine the coins - which is a pretty reliable indicator that the market value is much higher than it was in the immediate past relative to difficulty level. It's kind of like being a bat and flying on ultrasonic sound reflections. We can't directly see the objects, but we can sense the feedback, which is enough to avoid running into them.

Let's say we are at difficulty level 90, and we have a total of 1 GH of mining going on (I am sure the correlation is not correct, this is just to illustrate the idea), and based on this hashrate, the network anticipates adjusting the difficulty level down to 25 (factor #4 above). We also know that the network difficulty level adjustment does not take into account that people will tend to want to mine more when the difficulty goes down, and will want to mine less when difficulty goes up. In other words, when the difficulty goes down to 25, if the hashrate stayed at 1 GH, then the block will be solved every 10 minutes as desired. But the  fact the difficulty is at 25 will inevitably cause the hashrate to go up - we have never seen it not do this.

We can also reasonably surmise that the 1 GH of hashing, will continue to hash once the difficulty level drops to 25. But there will be additional hashing power that will show up in response to the easier difficulty level.

By using wallet address information (factor #3 above), we can programmatically construct a list of miners (represented as wallet addresses) are members of the stable 1 GH of hashing power, that was actively hashing when the difficulty was at 90 (and we can look back many adjustment eras, to include more miners, perhaps solo miners that don't find blocks very often, in this set). So the entire network can be looking at the same list, 100% derived from analyzing the blockchain.

During this difficulty level 25 period, we know difficulty has dropped more than 50%, so we know we want to limit rewards for cherry pickers. During this exceptional era, when a new block solution is submitted into the network, the network can compare the wallet address of the node that has submitted the solution, with the list of wallets programmatically constructed above which acts as a kind of loyal miner white list. If the solution submitter is not on the list, the entire network can agree and have consensus based on a preprogrammed formula to reduce the block reward given to that wallet (such reduce by 50%, from 50 coins, to 25 coins). If the wallet submitting the solution is on the list, then we can agree as a network, that we award the full 50 coin award. This is oversimplifying a bit - in reality we'd want to make it so if someone solved a block once, they can redeem during the easy period once, if they solved 10 blocks - then they can redeem 10 times at full value, etc. But you can see the principle.

What this formula would accomplish is not directly to see price swings - but like the bat - it can sense ultrasonically indicators of coin hoppers coming to collect easy coins - and with 100% precision, snipe half of the reward away from just the cherry pickers - while allowing proven members of the set of miners who have been contributing hashes (by solving blocks) during more difficult times - the benefit of the full award. Now, my original formula was to reduce the reward by a fixed 50%, but if the coin price jumped up 100-fold, it would still even with the 50% reduction, attract a lot of coin hoppers. So the formula could be adjusted, so it takes the ratio of difficulty levels and uses that. So in our example, if our difficulty went from 90 to 25, we meet the criteria of an exceptional reduction in difficulty (it went down >50%), which engages the logic. We would mathematically derive that 90 => 25 is a 72.7% reduction in difficulty, which the whole network can agree to. So we would grant a full 50-coin award for solving blocks during this difficulty era to any qualifying wallets, but reduce the reward by 72.7% for any other wallets that solve the block (so the award would be 13.65 in this case). This makes the newcomer see the exact same award as if they had showed up during the higher difficulty era, while those who had been hashing gets to see the easier difficulty era. This entirely defeats the logic of showing up when difficulty gets easier, to mine for a short while, then go mine somewhere else. Now, if the coin valuation went way up, say 100x, then the newcomer would still come and mine the coin anyway despite the reduction in award, because it is still profitable (13.65 coins that are 50x more valuable, is still worth 682.5 coins at the previous market value). If the network hashrate swelled to 10x the previous levels based on this difficulty (9 new mining GH for the 1 existing GH), it means the block reward would look like this - 36 blocks x 10% = 3.6 blocks receive 50 coins each = 180 coins to the loyal miner. 36 blocks x 90% = 32.4 blocks receive 13.65 coins each = 442.26 coins to the newly arrived miners. So a total of only 622.26 coins got produced during this exceptionally easy difficulty cycle - limiting inflation. This is much better than 180 coins to the loyal miner to 1,620 coins to the newly arrived miners (total 1800 coins produced = lots of inflation) which would otherwise prevail. Since more miners showed up despite reduced payment we can safely assume it is in response to rise in catcoin value in the market. The difficulty then adjusts upward, and everyone can start receiving the full 50-coin awards. But if this was a case where it was only a temporary reduction in difficulty, and it was going to go up again - or there's going to be a longer-term reduction in difficulty level - then the newly arrived miners presumably leave and the stable 1 GH of miners stay, and we have saved ourselves 1,177.74 coins of inflation and coins being dumped in the market, during that difficulty era, and we can keep the same restriction in place for as long as the difficulty stays in the same ballpark. Realistically, people respond to incentives and the 1 GH hashrate would stay around there inherently despite the reduction in difficulty from 90 to 25 UNLESS the value of the coin went up in the market - in which case people would be attracted to mining the coin for its market merits rather than immediate dumping profits -and would stay and continue mining at the next significant difficulty increase  - at which point they have earned the right to get full credit for solutions submitted from that point forward - and we can count them as a genuine increase in the baseline mining GH of the coin deserving full reward, and the difficulty increase is a genuine increase, not a temporary spike. So by this means, network hash rate will increase in response to increase in the coin value in the markets as we want - but not in response to just the difficulty level dropping while the coin value remains the same or dropping (which is inherently a temporary difficulty drop anyhow). By this means, we eliminate the tendency for coin hoppers to create and sustain wild oscillations in the difficulty - while still allowing the coin to respond quickly to rise in market value of the coin, by allowing new legitimate hashing power to be added to the coin.

I hope that presentation was clear enough that you could follow it, I know it's not exactly white paper quality - I wanted to get you a timely answer. Please feel free to ask me to clarify any aspect if I didn't do a good enough job.

Etblvu1






hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
January 08, 2014, 05:04:08 PM
I made a deposit earlier today of Cat and it has 6 confirmations and it's still pending. Is Cryptsy always this slow?

Yes it is. Once my BTC clears I'll shoot the price per coin up. It's thin as hell.

I'm going to work on making a simple API script in PHP at some point to sell my coins based on particular market conditions when my funds clear. I can't wait this long for them to clear every time. It'd drive me mad.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
January 08, 2014, 05:03:37 PM
I made a deposit earlier today of Cat and it has 6 confirmations and it's still pending. Is Cryptsy always this slow?

Yes it is. Once my BTC clears I'll shoot the price per coin up. It's thin as hell.

Right now the problem is the CAT blockchain. No new blocks have been found in over 3 hours.

We are long past the point of keeping the diff over 40. Now we have to hope it drops below 10 and the 4x pump puts it back in the 30 to 50 range.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
January 08, 2014, 05:01:45 PM
I made a deposit earlier today of Cat and it has 6 confirmations and it's still pending. Is Cryptsy always this slow?

Yes it is. Once my BTC clears I'll shoot the price per coin up. It's thin as hell.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
January 08, 2014, 04:59:58 PM
Your algorithm would still create swings that are too large. A simple 20% increase cap and 30% decrease cap is sufficient.

On another note, I missed the fire sale, stupid BTC is still clearing.

I made a deposit earlier today of Cat and it has 6 confirmations and it's still pending. Is Cryptsy always this slow?

I like the idea of a cap, however shouldn't it be the other way around? Wouldn't you want the increase cap to be higher than the decrease cap to encourage difficulty to reach the right level? I suppose either way would work, depending on whether you want to slow down difficulty growth, or slow down difficulty decline.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
January 08, 2014, 04:56:01 PM
Your algorithm would still create swings that are too large. A simple 20% increase cap and 30% decrease cap is sufficient.

On another note, I missed the fire sale, stupid BTC is still clearing.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
January 08, 2014, 04:55:07 PM
The pool hash has all dropped off. Blocktimes are approaching 3 hours. Catchain is estimating network hash at under 75 MH/s.

CAT is going to get pumped again big time, unless the price drops a lot before the next diff change.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
January 08, 2014, 04:50:18 PM
Look at these diff swings

98 -> 26 -> 45 -> 63 -> 29 -> 78

The down swing should take a percentage of the difficulty level that came before it to make it resistant.

For example;

if(26 < (98 / 2) && 26 < 98)
 new difficulty = 26 + (98 / 2)

Which is pseudo code for; if the next difficulty is lower than the previous difficulty, and the current difficulty is less than half of the next difficulty, then add half of the new difficulty to the old difficulty, and use this new difficulty instead.

I'm a c++ programmer, but I wouldn't know where to begin with implementing something like this without spending a solid week buried in code.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
January 08, 2014, 04:20:28 PM
If there were real fears of hyperinflation following another change, the difficulty could be reset to 40 or 50 instead of the 16 it was set to last time. That would make the coin about as profitable as LTC initially, so miners aren't losing money, but nowhere near the top of the charts.

The actual net hash supports a 40 or 50 difficulty.

I agree with you about the initial difficulty reset.

I also can agree with you about the practicality and effectiveness of limiting difficulty changes - provided that coin prices are not subject to wild swings up or down. I believe press coverage and public whims are hard to predict, and a sudden rush of buyers is an ever present possibility (just look at what happened to Bitcoins last year) - and something we should welcome and be prepared for. So whatever changes we ultimately make - it should anticipate a 50x to 100x jump in coin valuation, followed immediately by the inevitable coin hitting the very top of the profitability charts - and the inevitable rush of all the coin hoppers jumping in to take advantage of that market arbitrage. We should lay out in careful detail exactly how things might play out under those happy conditions, and whether we can obtain stability at the new price levels quickly, or if hyperinflation is unavoidable in that circumstance and the prices are destined to crash immediately following the initial enthusiasm.

Upon contemplating those happy conditions - I am brought to wonder if my 50% reduction in rewards is even too conservative. If prices spike to 100x, would it be asking too much to reduce the coin revenues of cherry-pickers by 99%, and let loyal miners who had been mining before the price spike receive the full benefit of the increase - at least for a while? The new miners could then wait out a reasonable period mining the newly profitable coin - yet not enjoying profits yet - until they have continued mining it for some reasonable duration, then they could gradually be let in on the profits. I believe this can be coded in - would address hyperinflation that would otherwise occur in those conditions - and would be a great incentive to build into being loyal miners - not to mention that by avoiding minting too many coins it could allow the newly found market price to have a chance of sustaining itself - by the mere absence of a big barrage of new coins. It would give miners with a track record of mining the coin when it wasn't as profitable - a kind of inertia and stake in the coin - similar to owning a bunch of coins outright - while denying cherry-pickers the chance to get sudden profits.

Thank you for your thoughtful contributions.

Etblvu1


The correlation between value and any network statistic (difficulty, blocktime, hashrate) is poor at best. Getting that info from a source outside the network (exchange etc.) is pretty sketchy. How do you propose to make the loyalty mechanism at all sensitive to value?
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Crypto News & Tutorials - Coinramble.com
January 08, 2014, 04:07:19 PM
Can I have .conf info please. No mention of it in OP.
full member
Activity: 213
Merit: 100
January 08, 2014, 04:06:26 PM
If there were real fears of hyperinflation following another change, the difficulty could be reset to 40 or 50 instead of the 16 it was set to last time. That would make the coin about as profitable as LTC initially, so miners aren't losing money, but nowhere near the top of the charts.

The actual net hash supports a 40 or 50 difficulty.

I agree with you about the initial difficulty reset.

I also can agree with you about the practicality and effectiveness of limiting difficulty changes - provided that coin prices are not subject to wild swings up or down. I believe press coverage and public whims are hard to predict, and a sudden rush of buyers is an ever present possibility (just look at what happened to Bitcoins last year) - and something we should welcome and be prepared for. So whatever changes we ultimately make - it should anticipate a 50x to 100x jump in coin valuation, followed immediately by the inevitable coin hitting the very top of the profitability charts - and the inevitable rush of all the coin hoppers jumping in to take advantage of that market arbitrage. We should lay out in careful detail exactly how things might play out under those happy conditions, and whether we can obtain stability at the new price levels quickly, or if hyperinflation is unavoidable in that circumstance and the prices are destined to crash immediately following the initial enthusiasm.

Upon contemplating those happy conditions - I am brought to wonder if my 50% reduction in rewards is even too conservative. If prices spike to 100x, would it be asking too much to reduce the coin revenues of cherry-pickers by 99%, and let loyal miners who had been mining before the price spike receive the full benefit of the increase - at least for a while? The new miners could then wait out a reasonable period mining the newly profitable coin - yet not enjoying profits yet - until they have continued mining it for some reasonable duration, then they could gradually be let in on the profits. I believe this can be coded in - would address hyperinflation that would otherwise occur in those conditions - and would be a great incentive to build into being loyal miners - not to mention that by avoiding minting too many coins it could allow the newly found market price to have a chance of sustaining itself - by the mere absence of a big barrage of new coins. It would give miners with a track record of mining the coin when it wasn't as profitable - a kind of inertia and stake in the coin - similar to owning a bunch of coins outright - while denying cherry-pickers the chance to get sudden profits.

Thank you for your thoughtful contributions.

Etblvu1
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