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Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning - page 1225. (Read 2007101 times)

hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500

Nope. That is *your* claim and argument. Bitcoin is a currency and a storage of wealth, while ethereum is a "fuel" for running decentralized applications, which they clearly also state on their web-pages. Thus, Bitcoin and Ethereum can *not* be directly compared, because they are not the same. But this all brings us back to how "perception" works in a observer's mind, does it not? Smiley

That's irrelevant. Both BTC and etherium are divisible by 8 decimal points. If demand is higher than supply, then of course prices will rise, but in neither case your are running out of the  money/fuel. as they are divisible by eight decimal points.

Whether early buyers make money, that is totally dependent on the adoption/popularity/demand and supply rate, and that has nothing to do with your argument about running out of etherium as "fuel". That's silly.
newbie
Activity: 39
Merit: 0
but in order for it to be long-term successful the price of the "fuel" (ethereum) that is required to run the applications *must* decrease over time to stay competitive. Thus, a long-term "investment" in such "fuel" would then be foolish.



OR, the amount of Ether it takes to run the same application decreases over time, while the price could stay the same or go higher... Roll Eyes Are the units of Ether not divisible like Bitcoin?...
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 251
I read that ether wont be able to be mined using ASIC miners? You will need POW/POS Miners??mmmm. what miners are those?
newbie
Activity: 24
Merit: 0
This nonsense.

Why yes, of course, dear Sir. Perception is *always* subjectively linked to the observer and "nonsense" is of course correct with your perception; since you are the observer, thus linked to *your* perception. This is very well fine and dandy, but I personally would be cautious betting too much of *my* money on *your* particular type of perception. Because, obviously; I do *not* share *your* kind of perception, and never will. Smiley

Just because you use the word "nonsense" in a authoritative sounding tone, does not make it more "true" against my common logic breakdown of known facts. Carry on with your duck-hunting. I don't mind. Because I don't eat duck. Cheesy

You argument is similar to someone claiming 21 million BTC aren't enough, even though we know we will never run out of BTC as there are plenty of satoshi per BTC

Nope. That is *your* claim and argument. Bitcoin is a currency and a storage of wealth, while ethereum is a "fuel" for running decentralized applications, which they clearly also state on their web-pages. Thus, Bitcoin and Ethereum can *not* be directly compared, because they are not the same. But this all brings us back to how "perception" works in a observer's mind, does it not? Smiley

hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 502
Mircea Popescu is offering up 5000 ETH per BTC in 8 months from now, 2.5x more ETH per BTC than the best rate being offered by Ethereum during the Genesis Sale. http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/07/23/a-guide-to-buying-5000-ether-bitcoin-2-5x-more-than-ethereums-genesis-sale/#comments
hero member
Activity: 678
Merit: 500

Ethereum looks like a awesome project technically speaking, but in order for it to be long-term successful the price of the "fuel" (ethereum) that is required to run the applications *must* decrease over time to stay competitive. Thus, a long-term "investment" in such "fuel" would then be foolish. It would then be better to buy this fuel *when* you actually need it. The ethereum-devs further strengthens this fact by intentionally using clear semantics in their documents that you are a "purchaser" of this fuel (ethereum), and *not* a investor of this "fuel" in their demographics on their web-pages.


Exactly!
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1029

Can someone from the Ethereum Team, or ETHSuisse, please explain the rationale behind liquidating the company that would have just created Ethereum, shortly after the Genesis block?

ref: page 3 of 32 of the T&C of the Genesis Sale


Quote
The Ethereum Platform is being developed primarily by a volunteer contributor team -- many of whom will be
receiving gifts of ETH in acknowledgement of their dedication -- and will continue to be developed on a
volunteer basis by some developers as well as under a more formalized contracting or employment
relationship for other developers. The group of developers and other personnel that is now, or will be,
employed by, or contracted with, Ethereum Switzerland GmbH (“EthSuisse”) is termed the “Ethereum Team.”
EthSuisse will be liquidated shortly after creation of genesis block, and EthSuisse anticipates (but does not
guarantee) that after it is dissolved the Ethereum Platform will continue to be developed by persons and
entities who support Ethereum, including both volunteers and developers who are paid by nonprofit entities
interested in supporting the Ethereum Platform.



It makes the system less amenable to legal action, so thats good.

the TOS actually more or less say we promise nothing, and risk is all yours anyway.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500

If you want to stay within the "laws of physics" in this area, one should then conclude with that; *IF* this platform becomes successful, the price of the "fuel" (ethereum) *MUST* keep on dropping steady in price, or else the application-creators/runners will not be able to afford running their applications in a competitive manner.

This nonsense. If demand is higher than supply, prices will rise, but services will still afford it as etherium like bitcoin  is divisible, with 8 decimal points. You argument is similar to someone claiming 21 million BTC aren't enough, even though we know we will never run out of BTC as there are plenty of satoshi per BTC

There is a pretty good chance the "purchasers" will end up doubling or tripling their investment if there is wide adoption. Even if there are 100  million etherium by the end of 2015, 1 billion market cap would mean profit.
newbie
Activity: 24
Merit: 0
This is definitely over priced, Im not sure what they are thinking. 1 btc for 2k ethereum = 1 eth at 50K sat. At the current buy rate we will see around 600 Million buys. To be conservative lets say 200 Million token buys. I also asked in irc if there was going to be a cap and the answer was no. So I have no clue how buying into ethereum now is better vs mining or buying later. Right now crypto is so volatile that 5 months is an eternity at this rate I don't see how it will hold its value. BlackCoin already has smart contracts and black halo with a cap of 69 Million coins Pos, current price 14k sat per coin/token. Im pretty sure projects will develop that will challenge ethereum making it tuff for the token values to sustain for a long period of time. If anyone has more updated info than me as to why the value will grow on the tokens than by all means, open to other views. As an investors this whole entire project is way to complicated for me to understand what Im investing in and what my return will be if any in comparison to other exciting projects like blackcoin or vericoin that also have block chains were people could build on top of

And that is why the ethereum-team so carefully have labeled people who pre-buy ethereum now as "purchasers" and *not* "investors". That may seem like a insignificant semantics-detail for most people, but it seems clear to me it's been deliberately chosen for a *very* specific reason, and that is to make sure no "investors" will be hurt by it's obvious endless inflation-ratio (price-drop).

One can use common logic sense:

What is ethereum? It's mainly a "fuel" for running decentralized applications.

What is required from any platform that wish to become long-term successful as a "application service"? Look at any service like cloud-services etc. In order to be long-term successful as a provider of space where applications can be run, the price of such service *needs* to become cheaper and cheaper over time.

If you want to stay within the "laws of physics" in this area, one should then conclude with that; *IF* this platform becomes successful, the price of the "fuel" (ethereum) *MUST* keep on dropping steady in price, or else the application-creators/runners will not be able to afford running their applications in a competitive manner.

Ethereum looks awesome technically speaking. But "investing" in ethereum as a means of earning money seems foolish, unless they want the "fuel" to become more and more expensive over time. Which is in such case, absurd. Look at what disasters increasing oil-prices have on this planet. It forces poverty to grow. Not a pretty sight. If they want this "fuel" (ethereum) to become more and more expensive over time, it will then *not* become successful. Not a single talented application-developer/runner would even consider trying to use a platform for their application if they knew the run-cost would always increase over time. Imagine web-hosting become ever more expensive. Not many web-sites, if any at all; would exist at this point if such price-increase were a fact.

So, using the "elimination method" on all these known factors, we can conclude it will be a bad idea to "invest" in this "fuel" on long-term. Because if this platform *wants* to become successful, the run-cost of the applications *must* decrease over time. If the run-cost does not decrease over time, it will force the application-developers/runners to stop using it, or look elsewhere to run it at a cheaper more affordable price-level.

Which in turn, leads us back to my original statement of "why" they chose to use the label "purchasers" instead of "investors". I'm pretty sure the ethereum-developers are *very well* aware of the exact details i just wrote in this reply, and chose their semantics wisely thereafter to avoid pitchforks and torches outside their houses at night sometime in future.

Now, all this been said; As a short-term speculative "investment" this may very well turn out to be *incredible* profitable, since it seems to have gotten unprecedented hype-factors for months. Or it may very well plummet like a rock as 80% of all super-hyped stock-IPO's usually do when launched. (And yes i'm using the IPO semantics here even tho ethereum itself does not. Just because someone does *not* use a definition, does not mean its not the right one to use. If it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, its a goddam duck) SO, one should calculate risk Vs Reward factors before purchasing (and NOT "investing" as the ethereum-devs clearly points out in their demographics) this "fuel" at the very least.

TL;DR:

Ethereum looks like a awesome project technically speaking, but in order for it to be long-term successful the price of the "fuel" (ethereum) that is required to run the applications *must* decrease over time to stay competitive. Thus, a long-term "investment" in such "fuel" would then be foolish. It would then be better to buy this fuel *when* you actually need it. The ethereum-devs further strengthens this fact by intentionally using clear semantics in their documents that you are a "purchaser" of this fuel (ethereum), and *not* a investor of this "fuel" in their demographics on their web-pages.
legendary
Activity: 1098
Merit: 1000
Angel investor.
What's the development plan after IPO and what the IPO BTC will be used, there is a rumor that these IPO be will be whacked by the developers
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 503
This is definitely over priced, Im not sure what they are thinking. 1 btc for 2k ethereum = 1 eth at 50K sat. At the current buy rate we will see around 600 Million buys. To be conservative lets say 200 Million token buys. I also asked in irc if there was going to be a cap and the answer was no. So I have no clue how buying into ethereum now is better vs mining or buying later. Right now crypto is so volatile that 5 months is an eternity at this rate I don't see how it will hold its value. BlackCoin already has smart contracts and black halo with a cap of 69 Million coins Pos, current price 14k sat per coin/token. Im pretty sure projects will develop that will challenge ethereum making it tuff for the token values to sustain for a long period of time. If anyone has more updated info than me as to why the value will grow on the tokens than by all means, open to other views. As an investors this whole entire project is way to complicated for me to understand what Im investing in and what my return will be if any in comparison to other exciting projects like blackcoin or vericoin that also have block chains were people could build on top of
hero member
Activity: 503
Merit: 501
I forgot to account for bitcoin transaction fee when i purchased what I thought was an even number of ethereum just now, how about picking that up old buddies old pals?  Grin

edit: If the developers have earned a large portion of the IPO, even though the corporate structure dissolves the personal long term investment remains - smooth move.
member
Activity: 100
Merit: 11
I was very optimistic about the IPO but now I have some doubt about how many people gonna really use the ethers.

The idea bitcoin was very simple as a currency and had a big success since you can buy almost everything paying by Bitcoin now. BTC had plenty adopters (mostly speculants) because of simplicity and the fact that you have decentralized money flow

On the other hand ethers isn't a currency but is a fuel for developers who can write applications and people who gonna use that applications spending ethers to perform actions. To estimate the real value of ethers I would need to know how many ethers need to be spend to build the app how much the actions costs. If each user have to spent 1 ether to fuel a contract I think it has no big potential to incerase the price of ethers because using them may become to expensive and it may really slow the development. The fuel supose to be cheap to make the economy efficient. Actually the vaule of ethers needs to be very stable to make it even usable.  
full member
Activity: 149
Merit: 100
Ethereum
Sorry to interrupt the trolling and desecration of my likeness.

We're live on reddit to answer all your questions: join us at
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2bjmgb/hi_we_are_the_ethereum_project_team_ask_us/

member
Activity: 87
Merit: 10

Can someone from the Ethereum Team, or ETHSuisse, please explain the rationale behind liquidating the company that would have just created Ethereum, shortly after the Genesis block?

ref: page 3 of 32 of the T&C of the Genesis Sale


Quote
The Ethereum Platform is being developed primarily by a volunteer contributor team -- many of whom will be
receiving gifts of ETH in acknowledgement of their dedication -- and will continue to be developed on a
volunteer basis by some developers as well as under a more formalized contracting or employment
relationship for other developers. The group of developers and other personnel that is now, or will be,
employed by, or contracted with, Ethereum Switzerland GmbH (“EthSuisse”) is termed the “Ethereum Team.”
EthSuisse will be liquidated shortly after creation of genesis block, and EthSuisse anticipates (but does not
guarantee) that after it is dissolved the Ethereum Platform will continue to be developed by persons and
entities who support Ethereum, including both volunteers and developers who are paid by nonprofit entities
interested in supporting the Ethereum Platform.


Giga, my young padawan.  You have to understand the nature of the Ethereum.  First, Ethereum and Ether.  Then, Vitalik EthSuisse.  Hookers!  Booze!  Bitcoin Collector's Party!

hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
i cant find it but can anyone tell me what the max coins is?

There is no max. It's based on percentage. More initial purchaser, more coins.

legendary
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1000
i cant find it but can anyone tell me what the max coins is?
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 251
But... this altcoin will be possible to mine?. Or its just you buy right now ether with bitcoins and that's it ?

You can mine, yes.

OK thx Smiley

And when will ether mining will be possible ? I suppose still weeks or months left?

I don't really know what to do.mine just btc.  Try mining altcoins like this one. ... because this altcoin is not going to start from "0" I mean,  they already selling ether.  So what will be difficulty when mining becomes available ?.

Do you think it's worth it to try to mine this altcoin ?

sr. member
Activity: 385
Merit: 250
When can the transaction Huh
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
But... this altcoin will be possible to mine?. Or its just you buy right now ether with bitcoins and that's it ?

You can mine, yes.
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