Topic: [ANN] IPO of MaidSafe:  Entering the Future of the Decentralized Internet - page 91. (Read 579788 times)

That's just a tiny bit too complex and convoluted to pass the smell test.  Actually it reeks of Rube Goldberg over-engineering.

Remember how the elegant simplicity of BitTorrent's tit-for-tat beat the layers of Gnutella cruft, and how TOR's onion routing (and i2p's garlic routing) won the race between private internets-within-the-internet?

I don't see that kind of breakthrough here.  If you can't explain it without sounding like jl777 explaining SuperNet, there's a problem.

I can describe the basic ideas of Bittorrent and TOR to my mom and dad.  Maidsafe?  Not a chance.  The best I could do is "Maid is like Freenet, except you have to pay to upload and without the 10 years of proven security."

For a science fair project, Maid has been in development far longer than comparable experimental software, many of which are based on Bitcoin blockchain tech and already in production.

EG: https://zeronet.io/ (thanks https://torrentfreak.com/play-p2p-impossible-shutdown-160301/).

Sorry, still not clear on how Safecoins can be anonymous+private+unlinkable without using ring signatures.

So users are required to pay in order to store data.  That sounds like SIA and Storj.

There are persistent rumors Maid has some unique value/selling proposition, but it continues to elude me (and not for lack of searching).

When will the MVP officially launch?

thanks!

Here's the latest Dev-Update:

MaidSafe Dev Update 1st March 2016

Follow the proces on GitHub/Maidsafe.

Hey guys I made a tweet about maidsafecoin on my twitter.

Could you please retweet and favorite the message?

https://twitter.com/CryptoTradeADay/status/704702732800757760

And give me a follow after Thanks a lot.

And what do you think the price can maximum reach of this coin?

Well, there are less sell and more buy orders so there is definitely something going on. But never buy in when something is rising (hard)....i know it is attractive to buy in then, but mostly you're to late anyway. Check volume and try to find a floor and put in a buy order on that amount and stick to it.

From what i could see is that many people bought in last night and yes, that has something to do with the release, but the excitement fades away in a few days. I expect the floor is around 18k right now and next days.

I sometimes forget that it's almost impossible to follow whale patterns exactly. I figured the buy on rumor, sell on news thing, would occur after first release... not a couple of days later. And if a couple of days later, figured it'd be this Mon-Tues, with next dev announcement.

I can't tell if this is a shakeout to buy more coins cheaply, or one or more whales dumped for good. I sold too early anyway (bought at 5, sold at 17ish), but still following the coin. I just wish I put in a buy order at 15 earlier and I would have caught some  dumped coins... never figured it'd dump like that, but then again, I expect very few people did.

All buy on rumor and sell on news (ok, not all of them). If you want to get in, just wait...it will drop a bit

Maid is making good progress today. If it keeps up we will be rich one day.

Depends on what "sprint" they'll do next. This sprint is called Rust-5. It will give us a network and the MVP. Next they might do a stabilization sprint when needed. That could take a few weeks. And after that they might jump into Safecoin. This is what they said for the lost couple of months. There's no "official launch" for The SAFE Network. Rather they launch in parts where a stable network is 1 and Safecoin is 2. They said that things become easier when the network is stable and operational. I would check the Dev-Updates on this. The network itself changes coin rewards. I think the idea is that you put up 1 Safecoin in your account and get an x-amount of storage for that. Say 1GB. When you PUT data to the network you loose some of that Safecoin. The address of the Safecoin becomes free again. As a Farmer you make some Safecoin when you provide chunks to the network. But this is not a fixed price. When a a lot of people Farm the reward goes down. When less people Farm the price goes up. So the network balances itself making always sure there's enough space. They talked about test-Safecoin where we can test this whole proces.      

Have they commented on when actual farming may begin?

What's the release schedule for coin rewards when this happens?

I think it will either, not so weird because right now it's a centralized system running on about 100 droplets. This is the only "lab test" they can do where they own/see all the nodes in the network. They can't figure out who made what account but they can see chunks pass by and get added to certain Vaults etc. Coming week they will do testing on it by taking nodes offline at random. That way they see how the network behaves. The next step (they say in coming weeks) is to move from centralized to decentralized where people run their Vaults at home. That's when we really can see how this thing scales.     

Not impressed yet much to prove on the scalability... and has anyone tried DDoS the network yet? I bet it will completely freeze

Should see some speedups in the coming weeks. Very curious to see what the speed is when people run Vaults at home and we truly become decentralized.

This is an alt-coin. The Maidsafecoin can be changed to Safecoin when Safecoin goes live on the network. So you send you Maidsafecoin to an addres to burn, and Maidsafe (the company) will give you Safecoin on the system. So now we have 500 milj. Safecoin, what's next??

Well, as explained by @jibble Safecoins are created when someone delivers requested data out of his Vault to the network. So user A does a request for a Chunk ( a GET) and the Vault that holds the chunks will get that request (actually it's close nodes get the request). So when that node delivers that chunk (again, through it's close nodes) a Farming Request is done. So the close nodes will pick a random Safecoin address and when it's not owned, they sign it to the node that stored the Chunks and provided it to the network (to user A). And when 50% of all Safecoins are farmed (will take a very long time) half of all the Farming requests will fail because the address is already owned by a user.

Surfing/downloading data will probably be free on the network. But when you want to upload (PUT) data you ask your close nodes to do it for you. They say; okay, we will, but first you need to buy space using Safecoin. So you remove some ownership of Safecoin (the address that is) and that address (Safecoin) is now free to be farmed by a Farmer when his nodes pick this address at random. The address was owned but got free because someone uploaded data to the network. So Safecoins are recycled in a way an can only be created when people Farm (deliver data to the network). No POW or POS is needed. Well, the "proof of work" is that you got a request for a chunk out of your Vault and you delivered it to the network. Your group of close nodes (again, you can't pick your own group in XOR) will make sure you can't threat.

Read this topic to understand how you join the network and go from IP-level to XOR. It's quite magic if you ask me.
      

It's not POW or POS , you farm , you offer yourself as a node, offering hard drive space for the network to be allowed to use, For every GET request you get for the data you are holding you will earn a small amount of maidsafe , if you have popular data , you will get many little rewards , not requested as much less rewards, most vaults will likely be filled with bits of both

It is a project similar to freenet/TOR with many difference, one of them being economic incentive. like the decentralized ledger of bitcoin is economically incentivized to protect it .

Firstly you would have to somehow know your XOR address , this cannot happen on creation and control of other nodes wouldnt be possible but random , so what next? you will have to control 28 nodes out of a group of 32 to do anything, this when XOR addresses are assigned at a mixture of random and reputation of other vaults would be incredibly difficult, so now you have to somehow make enough accounts and new nodes to be able to mathematically increase the chance of randomly having 28 accounts out of 32 in the same group of nodes , this would require over 70-80% of total node creation to be you alone , and even then it could fail. 

Then you have another problem ,most decisions on the network cannot be made with only 1 group of nodes agreeing, controlling a node group of 28 out of 32 still wouldn't allow you to tamper with the network in any destructive way, you would need another group og nodes , again controlling at least 28 out of 32 of them to be able to change data, not only would you need 2 groups of nodes, you would need 2 groups that are XOR address in close proximity of each other , if not they wont work.

 

If there's no blockchain what does the PoW/PoS do?  Just ~randomize distribution?

If there's no blockchain, how is this an altcoin and not a separate project like i2p/TOR/Freenet?

What prevents Sybil attacks by forming honeypot groups?

You can't choose your own XOR-Address. I think that's the key to answer your question. You join the network on IP-Level and connect on IP-Level. But to get "in XOR" you need a group to take you up. They all use public and private keys. There's no blockchain so the only thing left is something called "ownership". It's ownership of a 512-bit address. When you own Safecoin you actually own an address. And to change ownership from 1 person to the other, you sign a message getting rid of your coin and sign it over to another address. Your close group in XOR will confirm if you indeed are the owner. So they sign it as well, next to some other groups (I think about 100 nodes in total). So now the next node (or no node) owns that address. It has some groups signed it. The security comes from the fact that in XOR your close nodes don't know your IP-address. Only your relay-node does. But your relay-node just connects you to a group in XOR. You connect to the group using PKI so your relay-node knows your IP but not what you do in XOR. So when a group looks at a Safecoin address all they see is it was owned by "JfgjvkjVTFkgkhgfHTFHKGFkhgfk" and is now owned by "VVYTrytFtGHJVJHKJhjHJHJHJHJHJH".

All the encryption layers for SAFEnet

OK, I get there's a quorum system.  But in what framework of cryptographic primitives does that quorum system operate?

Is there a Bitcoin-style blockchain or Cryptonite-style mini-blockchain?  How is the taint from previous coin owners obscured or removed?

Quite some Safesites online already.



Test The SAFE Network and upload your site

Add your Safesite to the topic

The network will probably get a "reset" when updates are launched. You might loose your data in this testfase, so keep a backup.

 

i will try to explain

They are on the network and exist , the only data field is who owns it, cryptographically secured , having to reach consensus and cryptographic proof to change ownership , this because it isn't actually transferred anywhere, the coins are always in the same place, you only need to change the ownership field with 1 line of code, allow for instant transactions , from what i read , i think it requires more than 1 group of nodes to come to consensus to change ownership, so not only 1 group of 28 out of 32 agreeing , but 4-6 different groups of nodes all coming to consensus and agreeing which should be possible to happen in milliseconds usually. This also means that if someone was somehow able to control a single group of nodes they are unable to do anything dangerous or damaging to the system just sort of temporarily troll it, this is infinitely harder to do as the network gets larger.