[ANN] Litecoin - a lite version of Bitcoin. Launched! - page 335.

kano

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Quote from: Etlase2 on May 01, 2012, 05:29:34 PM

Quote from: kano on May 01, 2012, 05:12:14 PM

Spoon feeding - zero confirm transactions.
Try reading the thread again.

Try not being vague. "Oh I was talking about this, now I mean this!"

...

No, I was talking about both.
That's why I said to read the thread.
There is quite a bit of discussion by others about different time lengths for confirms and zero confirms.
Also the issue of variance for confirms of amounts considered outside the range of zero confirms ... etc. ... etc. ...
Meh.

Etlase2

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Quote from: kano on May 01, 2012, 05:12:14 PM

Spoon feeding - zero confirm transactions.
Try reading the thread again.

Try not being vague. "Oh I was talking about this, now I mean this!"

Quote

You may see no difference between an average 10 minutes and an average 50 minutes, but I can GUARANTEE that more than 90% of people would see the difference.

More unsubstantiated talk.

Zero confirm transactions are no safer under Litecoin than Bitcoin. Because here is the reality: to easily and successfully pull off double spends in a retail environment, multiple people will use the same coins in different places at the same time. AFAIK both bitcoin and litecoin clients will not transmit "double spend attempts", therefore it is unlikely that a merchant will ever see a double spend to know that this is happening. This attack is far, far easier than any other, and any 13-year old script kiddie can figure it out. In 2 minutes your customer is out the door and out of your reach.

kano

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Quote from: Etlase2 on May 01, 2012, 04:55:13 PM

...
I am not a probability expert, but I would like to see some actual math to back that up. It may be true, but it's still irrelevant to the discussion about transaction times.

Spoon feeding - zero confirm transactions.
Try reading the thread again.

Etlase2

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Quote from: tacotime on May 01, 2012, 04:17:07 PM

The confirmation is an entry recorded in each valid new block that confirms that a transaction has occurred and is valid. Why would 6 valid new blocks for litecoin be less valid than 6 valid new blocks for bitcoin? In terms of probability, they should be no different. Bitcoin uses 100 blocks for confirmation of newly discovered blocks by any client and the same is true for litecoin.

Why do you insist on responding with irrelevant/incorrect information? How is difficulty/4 * 6 just as probable as difficulty * 6? "100 blocks for confirmation" has nothing to do with what we're talking about. That is only for coinbase transactions.

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edit: Further, it's known that by probability the 24 confirmations equivalent temporally to 6 bitcoin confirmations should be more secure as long as the rate of orphan blocks is not high, which it hasn't been lately.
https://github.com/coblee/litecoin/wiki/Comparison-between-Bitcoin-and-Litecoin

I am not a probability expert, but I would like to see some actual math to back that up. It may be true, but it's still irrelevant to the discussion about transaction times.

Cosbycoin

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Quote from: tacotime on May 01, 2012, 04:17:45 PM

Quote from: Etlase2 on May 01, 2012, 04:16:20 PM

Quote from: tacotime on May 01, 2012, 04:12:38 PM

Yes, there is to early adopters, and that is block reward halving much quicker.

Broseph, try to stay relevant. Block speed has nothing to do with block reward, and litecoin is designed to halve the reward at the same ~4yr pace as bitcoin.

Litecoin's reward halves at 200k blocks.

edit: Okay, maybe if Cosbycoin's confirmed it that isn't true. I had thought coblee didn't change it, but I must be mistaken.

Just read the OP: "Litecoin generation will be halved every 840,000 blocks."

GTRsdk

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Quote from: tacotime on May 01, 2012, 04:17:45 PM

Quote from: Etlase2 on May 01, 2012, 04:16:20 PM

Quote from: tacotime on May 01, 2012, 04:12:38 PM

Yes, there is to early adopters, and that is block reward halving much quicker.

Broseph, try to stay relevant. Block speed has nothing to do with block reward, and litecoin is designed to halve the reward at the same ~4yr pace as bitcoin.

Litecoin's reward halves at 200k blocks.

edit: Okay, maybe if Cosbycoin's confirmed it that isn't true. I had thought coblee didn't change it, but I must be mistaken.

If you take a look at main.cpp in the litecoin source, it shows (and hides) answers.

tacotime

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Quote from: Etlase2 on May 01, 2012, 04:16:20 PM

Quote from: tacotime on May 01, 2012, 04:12:38 PM

Yes, there is to early adopters, and that is block reward halving much quicker.

Broseph, try to stay relevant. Block speed has nothing to do with block reward, and litecoin is designed to halve the reward at the same ~4yr pace as bitcoin.

Litecoin's reward halves at 200k blocks.

edit: Okay, maybe if Cosbycoin's confirmed it that isn't true. I had thought coblee didn't change it, but I must be mistaken.

tacotime

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Quote from: Etlase2 on May 01, 2012, 01:31:06 PM

The number of confirmations to accept a transaction is up to the user. Assuming an identical hashrate, it would take 24 confirmations in litecoin to equal 6 confirmations in bitcoin. And one confirmation in litecoin is 4 times easier to reverse than one confirmation in bitcoin. There is no advantage here.

The confirmation is an entry recorded in each valid new block that confirms that a transaction has occurred and is valid. Why would 6 valid new blocks for litecoin be less valid than 6 valid new blocks for bitcoin? In terms of probability, they should be no different. Bitcoin uses 100 blocks for confirmation of newly discovered blocks by any client and the same is true for litecoin.

edit: Further, it's known that by probability the 24 confirmations equivalent temporally to 6 bitcoin confirmations should be more secure as long as the rate of orphan blocks is not high, which it hasn't been lately.
https://github.com/coblee/litecoin/wiki/Comparison-between-Bitcoin-and-Litecoin

Etlase2

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Quote from: tacotime on May 01, 2012, 04:12:38 PM

Yes, there is to early adopters, and that is block reward halving much quicker.

Broseph, try to stay relevant. Block speed has nothing to do with block reward, and litecoin is designed to halve the reward at the same ~4yr pace as bitcoin.

Cosbycoin

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Quote from: tacotime on May 01, 2012, 04:12:38 PM

Quote from: Etlase2 on May 01, 2012, 04:06:43 PM

I scanned the thread and there is nothing enlightening in it in regards to faster blocks, mostly just you going off about how the world is out to get you and can't understand how great your idea is.

There is no massive downside to 10 minute blocks; there is no massive upside to 2 or 2.5 minute blocks.

Yes, there is to early adopters, and that is block reward halving much quicker.

How is it any quicker? The amount of blocks that need to be produced before LTC block reward halves is 210k x 4 = 810,000 blocks.

tacotime

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Quote from: Etlase2 on May 01, 2012, 04:06:43 PM

I scanned the thread and there is nothing enlightening in it in regards to faster blocks, mostly just you going off about how the world is out to get you and can't understand how great your idea is.

There is no massive downside to 10 minute blocks; there is no massive upside to 2 or 2.5 minute blocks.

Yes, there is to early adopters, and that is block reward halving much quicker.

Cosbycoin

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Quote from: Etlase2 on May 01, 2012, 04:06:43 PM

I scanned the thread and there is nothing enlightening in it in regards to faster blocks, mostly just you going off about how the world is out to get you and can't understand how great your idea is.

There is no massive downside to 10 minute blocks; there is no massive upside to 2 or 2.5 minute blocks.

I guess as both networks mature more these things will become more apparent.

Etlase2

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I scanned the thread and there is nothing enlightening in it in regards to faster blocks, mostly just you going off about how the world is out to get you and can't understand how great your idea is.

There is no massive downside to 10 minute blocks; there is no massive upside to 2 or 2.5 minute blocks.

kano

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Quote from: Etlase2 on May 01, 2012, 02:39:08 PM

Quote from: kano on May 01, 2012, 02:05:50 PM

Have a read - some of the later comments about confirms etc. may help enlighten you

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/suggested-major-change-to-bitcoin-51504

There is no advantage here.

Quote

Most transactions in the block-chain are small and having to wait for an hour or more for a small transaction to be accepted is definitely one of the issues that makes wider adoption of Bitcoin difficult.

How does waiting 10 minutes vs. an hour make any difference to a small transaction? Are you going to sit around waiting at McDonald's for 10 minutes before they let you have your food? No. This can be solved outside of the protocol, and has already been. You assume your conclusion is true without any evidence ("begging the question").

Well, if you had bothered to read "later comments about confirms" ...

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However, it WILL reduce variance.

So will 30 second blocks.

Again - read the thread - it's all discussed there - the first post is how I started it ...
The aim was to enlighten you on what you clearly missed with your comments, I'm not gonna spoon feeding that thread to you.

Quote

Reality: online bitcoin transaction are too slow.

~~Reality~~ Opinion

Whatever

Cosbycoin

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Quote from: Etlase2 on May 01, 2012, 03:33:33 PM

That's why I said "assuming an identical hashrate"... It is true if the hash rates are (qualitatively) identical. As it is now, you probably need 100+ confirmations in litecoin to equal 6 bitcoin confirmations. Possibly way more, I don't know.

Yup and each litecoin is worth about 1200 times less than bitcoin. So I'd say based on those ratios it is secure for its tiny market value in comparison to BITCOIN

Etlase2

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That's why I said "assuming an identical hashrate"... It is true if the hash rates are (qualitatively) identical. As it is now, you probably need 100+ confirmations in litecoin to equal 6 bitcoin confirmations. Possibly way more, I don't know.

Cosbycoin

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Quote from: Etlase2 on May 01, 2012, 01:31:06 PM

The number of confirmations to accept a transaction is up to the user. Assuming an identical hashrate, it would take 24 confirmations in litecoin to equal 6 confirmations in bitcoin. And one confirmation in litecoin is 4 times easier to reverse than one confirmation in bitcoin. There is no advantage here.

This all depends upon the current total network hash rate. I believe this is true given how young litecoin is in comparison to bitcoin.

=) gotta start somewhere!

Etlase2

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Quote from: kano on May 01, 2012, 02:05:50 PM

Have a read - some of the later comments about confirms etc. may help enlighten you

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/suggested-major-change-to-bitcoin-51504

There is no advantage here.

Quote

Most transactions in the block-chain are small and having to wait for an hour or more for a small transaction to be accepted is definitely one of the issues that makes wider adoption of Bitcoin difficult.

How does waiting 10 minutes vs. an hour make any difference to a small transaction? Are you going to sit around waiting at McDonald's for 10 minutes before they let you have your food? No. This can be solved outside of the protocol, and has already been. You assume your conclusion is true without any evidence ("begging the question").

Quote

However, it WILL reduce variance.

So will 30 second blocks.

Quote

Reality: online bitcoin transaction are too slow.

~~Reality~~ Opinion

kano

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Quote from: Etlase2 on May 01, 2012, 01:31:06 PM

The number of confirmations to accept a transaction is up to the user. Assuming an identical hashrate, it would take 24 confirmations in litecoin to equal 6 confirmations in bitcoin. And one confirmation in litecoin is 4 times easier to reverse than one confirmation in bitcoin. There is no advantage here.

Have a read - some of the later comments about confirms etc. may help enlighten you

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/suggested-major-change-to-bitcoin-51504

Scott J

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Thanks for clearing that up - I thought the Bitcoin/Litecoin confirmations were just as strong.

Topic: [ANN] Litecoin - a lite version of Bitcoin. Launched! - page 335. (Read 1467253 times)