Topic: [ANN] Lykke - Trade Bitcoin, Ethereum, FX and Digital Assets - page 110. (Read 144625 times)

Can you tell me where we can register to their slack ?!

I have to admit that my knowledge about Ripple is limited. But I wouldn't count much on the fee and I don't believe in the "bridge-currency", because in most cases that won't be needed. It's possible to trade anything against anything and I doubt that a bank will buy into XRP, which is unstable, to use that as bridge. And even if that should happen in some scenarios I don't see any indicator to evaluate XRP or how it's connected to the value of the company. Of course, it's possible that I'm wrong here, but until now I consider xrp-as-fee as the only safe thing to say.

And if I understand their system correctly, it's not even close to a blockchain but relies on too much trust into people.



That they can issue new coins was my major concern. But if we compare it again with Ripple: Ripple won't create more XRP but the company holds the majority of the total supply while I don't see much connection of XRP value to the value of the company. Both companies can inflate the market, but Lykke as company would lose in value if they would do that careless.

Under the line trust is always the major point in all of those projects and that's also true for pure Cryptocurrencies without premine and without ICO because there is no lack of dirty tricks to make a quick buck on the back of Investors.

And regarding trust I had the advantage that Richard Olsen personally explained me a lot about it all. He didn't do that with the intention to convince me to invest, more because in one way he liked my (critical) feedback, but also recognized that I had some misconceptions. And I can understand that others may not have the trust like I have now, but my recommendation is: Those who think about the question if they want to invest in this project, should also focus on exactly that while doing research. There are a lot of informations about Richard Olsen and also others of his team.

Good to begin with is this:

The Future Of Currency
Lykke Wallet is the new project from Oanda. Built using Blockchain technology, it could revolutionise currency and how we pay for things, Richard Olsen, CEO and Founder, Lykke.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmZBtKL7ZcM

To get an impression about his vision, this speech is great:

The power of the small world phenomenon | Richard Olsen | TEDxZurich
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKzjwV_N68I

In the description of the video are already a lot of good infos about him.

Overall there is no lack of information about him and his team and what they're trying to build here. And I believe it's really important to get an impression about them and what they want, to come to a decision if to invest or not.


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But: Besides the question if somebody wants to invest in this or not, there is simply another major point: It's for users and it already is usable. I really believe, that this will have impact. Because if I don't think about LKK but if I would like to see this project grow the answer is a big yes. I'm paranoid. I hate it to have much value on exchanges and that's why I always deposit and withdraw and so on. Additionally there are a lot of projects without good wallets yet and it's a never ending story of importing private keys (cold storage) to get something on an exchange and so on. Somehow I like it because there is a good learning curve by doing all that, but what I know: There is still no solution for the average user in place and that is true for 99% of all what's out there. And this project is different and will most likely give access to a lot of different assets, from Crypto, colored coins to Fiat (FX).

And one thing I always focus on are reasons why something won't be used. I call that barriers and there are a lot of possible barriers (lack of trust - psychological, lack of abilities - fundamental, lack of accuracy - fundamental ...etc.). And until now I don't see any barriers in this project. It's just hard to get attention and to get traction but with such a base it's just a matter of time.

Actually Ripple CEO has recently remarked the importance of XRP in Ripple and I'm sure it will be implemented by most institutions since it saves a lot of money for them and it's deeply tied to how it's supposed to work. Now being a digital asset it will have value, market makers will do they thing (they are already doing that, Ripple has increased in price a lot in recent weeks).

Also, a tiny amount of XRP is burnt after each transaction so it's deflationary. I think unless Ripple completely abandons the idea of XRP (they are the major holders so it's naive to think that) they price will continue to rise on adoption news and deals just as any other project.

I agree that Lykke offers similar benefits but with the addition of making LKK coins. Either way, if you think about it, 10k LKK coins would be 100 shares in a company that it's on its beginnings. Without proper earnings yet it's hard to give a valuation on what would be the proper value for a single share, we know there are more than 100m shares basically and more than 1 LKK billion coins.

Lykke already has a working project and it's cheap enough to invest in my opinion, it's much less risky than other ICOs. However, I don't see x4-5 ICO prices any time soon since there's zero buzz about it and one can say the current price is fair if you put it all together without doing any predictions on potential. Many thinking this is just another ICO with some russian guys in a garage playing crypto with nothing to show for may think it's overvalued, 1000-2000k sats would be more adequate and I could agree with that if this was the case.

But I think we can all agree Lykke is already way ahead...

Yes, very true. Usually I don't like it that much to do things on a smartphone but just the App shows a lot about how they do things. I mean, it's  really an "easy-to-use-solution" - self-explaining and with a very nice design.

What I really like about this project and if we focus on "just" the APP:

- it simply can be used as an easy-to-use wallet.
- even more interesting: easy-to-use exchange

And that already has value. But even more important is the security-aspect. I believe that it's good to be kind of paranoid in Crypto, if we think about private hacks but maybe even more about hacked exchanges or fraud.

And if we focus on that:

- a (semi-) decentralized and easy to use exchange with fiat-implementation, plus bitcoin, plus ethereum, plus all what will be added there (could be everything as colored coin) plus: They can do ICO's for other projects and so on.


Yesterday I've asked in their slack if it will be possible to implement a cold storage-feature, a way to generate keys offline and a way to import keys if needed and they seemed to be very open to do that.


And that all combined:

1) easy-to-use and very well desgined
2) secure

--> 1) and 2): as wallet --> for "everybody"
--> 1) and 2): as semi-decentralized exchange --> for "everybody"

- Fiat
- colored coins
- most attractive Cryptocurrencies (Bitcoin, Ethereum etc.)

Plus: Not "just" an App-solution but also a browser-access is obviously under development.

Plus: All their FX-expertise and connections into the business-world

Plus: 0% fee


If I ask myself: Where are barriers to use this? I don't see any. It already is highly attractive for guys like us and that will increase. It's just not very known yet. But that will change without any doubt. It also will find more users out of this (Crypto) space if they do ICO's for other projects in the future. And... access to the established financial system and all the business-connections they have. I mean, Richard Olsen is really well known and respected.

The more I learn and think about it, the more potential I see. First I believed it may be overvalued but that could very well turn out to be a very wrong conclusion.

Its a really interesting project !! Wallet is nicely build

Thanks for the infos. Why I'm critical about Ripple, especially when it comes to XRP, ist because it seems as if they let their Investors pretty much alone while they still float the market with XRP whenever they want. Just as example, post of june 2015:

Ripple no longer supports the client.

It looks like i'm going to sell most of my ripples. This has to be a joke. I have already migrated a few times and now I have 20k ripples sitting in my account which I have no access to. (...)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ripple/comments/3bjzxe/ripple_no_longer_supports_the_client/


And one look on that side:

"Thank you for using Ripple Trade. While we continue to develop the Ripple ecosystem, we are no longer running Ripple Trade, the wallet application. You can still access your balances and secret key after migrating your account to GateHub, or at another wallet provider of your choice. If you choose to migrate to GateHub, click, Migrate Wallet to GateHub to get started."
https://www.rippletrade.com/#/404

And in a german article it was stated that XRP would be more like a Spam-protection which shouldn't even be necessary in a closed system like Ripple. I don't have deep knowledge about it, but I've read some discussions and that many XRP-Investors are very disappointed.


And after learning more about Lykke I'm glad to see that this won't be like Ripple and that the value of LKK is deeply connected to the value of the company since it's about shares.

Ripple has changed its architecture several times, but here is a recent document https://ripple.com/files/ripple_vision.pdf

What is the difference with Lykke? In Lykke things settle on a public blockchain - no need to invent new consensus algorithms.  If one parties trusts another it means that it can use that party as a creditor. Institutions can issue credit as ColoredCoins on public blockchains, and settle between them off-chain. This architecture allows: a pricing mechanism of any currency or asset, native cryptographic currency and issued currency to interact in a single system. Indeed, LKK coins are not central to the converting mechanism - ColoredCoinsUSD can be traded for ColoredCoinsCHF, etc ,without touching LKK (In Ripple XRP is always the medium). Any kind of bank, payment institution, even central banks, can in principle use OpenAsset protocols. The credit in the system are the issued coins, and not native to the marketplace. Indeed while the goals can appear similar, the approach is very different.

The team has closely studied the Lightning network proposal: http://lightning.network   But again, with Lykke there is a notion of a trusted intermediary which issues coins. In Lightning the so called hubs don't issue proper credit, and there is no market price.

You already can buy LKK and trade them (until end of ICO it's also possible to sell it back to the fixed price - a nice way to try out their app) and so on without revealing sensitive informations, at least if you buy with Bitcoin. If you download and install the App you just have to give a mail-address and your name if I recall it correctly (I did that too fast to remember every step).

And regarding the share-aspect, Richard Olsen writes:

"strictly speaking the Lykke coins are an entitlement to Lykke shares - they are a digital representation of Lykke shares."


How I understand it: We Crypto-folks can buy and trade it like any other Cryptocurrency or token and of course also after this ICO because the market will take over right after if I'm right. As long as we don't want to give all informations --> LKK = entitlement to Lykke-shares. And everybody can decide at any time if he wants to become a full share-holder by law.

The interesting part is: It's already safe that the share-aspect will determine it's value. It's kind of an all-in-one-solution because everybody is free to benefit from that even without giving all sensitive informations while he has the chance to do that.


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Just btw: Some days ago there was this news about Ripple:

"With the launch of the “Global Payments Steering Group”, blockchain startup Ripple has revealed details of a new interbank group that will create the first “rules-based blockchain payments network” for global money transfers."
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ripple-big-banks-launch-first-interbank-blockchain-group-global-payments/


....I never liked Ripple, so I wasn't good informed about it. I just saw how the price shot up and all the talking about the news and decided to buy into XRP even if I didn't like the very high XRP-marketcap of > $250 M. And I was very surprised to find out that there was so much sell-pressure. It seemed as if some whales took the chance to unload their holdings, even if the price was pretty much down in comparison to earlier days.

And what I found out is: Nobody really seems to know why XRP even should exist. It seems to be abandoned by the company itself while they still own the majority of the supply and sell it whenever they want.


Is there a plan B for XRP?
http://www.xrpchat.com/topic/763-is-there-a-plan-b-for-xrp/


Under the line I'm unsure about XRP but what I want to say with that: Lykke has found a much more elegant and fair solution with LKK. And if this project should become successful, and I believe it can be much bigger than Ripple because Lykke has a lot more to offer and a team of experts with connections and it already has a lot to offer - Meanwhile I believe it's cheap while I first believed it's overvalued.

To give you(lykkeX) a passport copy? If we do that, will you give us shareholder proofs and dividend?

so now i need to know how i can do that. then i think it is an easy way to buy shares of a company by buying their coins.

LKK --> shares of Lykke. I also had a lot of questions and Richard Olsen explained a lot in a mail. He allowed me to quote him in this thread.

So I will do that again, because it can clear up some misconceptions. I'll highlight the lines about LKK (last few lines).



Richard Olsen - CEO of Lykke:


"The wholle Bitcoin Movement is inspired by the vision to replace human decision making with software algorithms. Algorithms are better, because the cannot be manipulated.

Nick Szabo gave an excellent talk at our Zurich event, where he explained his long-term vision of mapping the subtelty of the legal system that has evolved over thousands of years into software code. Nick highlighted the diffuculty of this task - a good legal system is highly refined and we cannot easily create software code that has all the subtelty of our legal system. The short comings were clearly visible in the DAO event.

I am approaching the issue in the following way:

Lykke follows a really big vision - I want to disrupt financial markets and create a fair playing field accessible for everyone. This is much more than just a matching engine with a user interface and an interface to blockchain - we talk about creating legal entities around the world, complex financial engineering, building a brand, hiring people, all the pushbacks from incumbents that want to make our lives difficult...a long list.

We have to kick off big projects that are essential for the project to fly - I will highlight just two projects: we need to build a open access publication platform for news stories in different channels...a transparent financial market only works in context of independent high quality reporting. Today, the news industry is highly monopolized and starved from independent reporting - I plan to create an open access publication platform, where prizes are available for the best contribution of the past hour, past 6 hours, past 24 hours, past 1 week, past month, past quarter, past year - the prize cascades have a dual function - they reward the author and his editor...it is easy to win an hour prize...more difficult to win a whole cascade. The prizes are good ranking tool of the quality of reports and incentivize the contributors. We plan to create many different news channels. I want to build a truly independent news reporting platform with Economist-like channels, a long list.... To evaluate companies and other assets with all the financial instruments - in depth reporting is essential.

Another big project is a bigdata information system - we live in the world of 'digital data', but there is no global informaiton system with real time forecasts for all the digital data that is being collected. In weather forecasting this is standard - big data models collect the meteorological data and then generate detailed weather forecasts around the world. The same has to happen with all the digital data that society is collecting. I dream of a Wikipedia for big data - the real time information system then feeds the risk management system, which are then used to price financial instruments, etc. Today, there does not exist a big data information system - central bankers continue to rely on ad hoc collected data, excel spread sheets, etc.

Sorry to say - it is just crazy how the financial world today functions. I want to clean up the mess and introduce highest quality standards at all levels. I have a very clear vision of how I can make all this happen...it is an exciting journey, but much more complex than a simple software code that tells us, if this happens, then do this....we are in a hugely multi-dimensional space.

Any investor, who buys Lykke coins runs a big risk - he depends on the judgement of the Lykke team, its core investors, my own capabilities...to increase the likelihood of success I am building Lykke to be extremely fragile - all our software is open source, if people are not happy with what we are doing, they can just copy the code and start a competing company that does better work. There are not sharholder agreements that prevent people from selling...this is good, because anyone can sell when he wants, i.e. voting with his feet...this sends an immediate signal to everyone and forces Lykke to regroup...

In building Lykke I am inspired by biology - I try to implement subtle mechanisms that bring Lykke back into its dynamic equilibrium.

There is another question: strictly speaking the Lykke coins are an entitlement to Lykke shares - they are a digital representation of Lykke shares. To become a full shareholder, the owner has to reveal his name to Lykke - this is a legal requirement from Swiss law. It is more efficient to just deal with colored coins, because then we can take advantage of the full digital efficiency. We will pay dividends, etc. to Lykke coin holders."

Any fiat settlement today happens in 1-3 days cycles in the backend of banks (usually T+2). Blockchain offers settlement in 6 block cycles, i.e. one hour. More info here:

https://lykke.com/city/doku.php?id=second_by_second_interest_rate

today btc conformation fast fast.

and it works.
i sold lkk for CHF.
i sold BTC for GBP.
i sold GBP for CHF.

LTC is less supported, and doesn't have Openasset implementation. ETH support is in the works.

BTC is so slow. why dont you add Litecoin? nevertheless i deposited 0.01 btc. and it is time again for this one here..... https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/waiting-for-a-confirmation-what-are-you-doing-1621537

Press Wallet and the "+" sign. You should see a deposit address. If you want to test with small amounts probably depositing BTC  is easiest.

Everyone was invited to participate end of September 2015. The earliest contributors who designed the marketplace in an open competition got rewarded, and early employees and contributors got rewarded. That is about as far as one can get I believe. Overall 3 teams participated in the construction of the marketplace. All is public, if one goes through the effort. Understandably not everyone chose to contribute in the earliest phases. Going to the public with non-existing wallet, would have caused just negative reactions. The team has worked very hard to get to this stage I think, and that was by no means a certainty. Of course buying into the project and contributing is an individual choice.

You can find the post dated 30th September on the Bitcoin mailing list here:
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-September/011282.html

Press release:
https://lykke.com/city/_media/lykke_developers_competition_press-release.pdf

i bought some just for testing. but now there are more questions.

where do i find my lkk address in the wallet? only under "privat"?
how can i generate an address?
can you send my some coins? or send me some colored CHF.
but how does this work?

Earning on the spread as market-maker and services for institutions. Profits go to the corporation, i.e. coin/shareholders.

On april lykke cost so little, but now lykke is very expensive, 0.05 chf, roughly 0.05 usd. I think this kind of fixed rate ico is very unfair. Not recommend this coin. Oneday they will sell for 0.1 chf or higher, it is iresponsible for later buyers.