International bank wires are slow.
But not that slow.
Topic: [ANN] Mt.Gox Withdrawal Clarification (Read 4067 times)
You said, that everything is alright, but there are still delayed payments. OKPay is still not accepting bitcoins(afaik, they stopped accepting bitcoins, when you started delaying wire payments). I have one delayed withdrawal to OKPay(it's 4 days old already), support gives some silly explainations. What does that mean: "We have retried your withdrawal and will inform you once it is processed." ? What's there to try? You can only do that transfer, or not. There is nothing to try.
at a guess they sent the TX and are waiting to see if it bounces back.
International bank wires are slow.
You said, that everything is alright, but there are still delayed payments. OKPay is still not accepting bitcoins(afaik, they stopped accepting bitcoins, when you started delaying wire payments). I have one delayed withdrawal to OKPay(it's 4 days old already), support gives some silly explainations. What does that mean: "We have retried your withdrawal and will inform you once it is processed." ? What's there to try? You can only do that transfer, or not. There is nothing to try.
Ok, I celebrate your suddenly sincerity stroke.
Now a question from a non US user:
- Can you please make the same sincerity effort with tainted coins policy? Look. I (and I'm sure a lot of people too) am in no way taking the risk of using your exchange because I suspect you use a dark tainted coin list and a tracking blockchain software to follow them. Is it any way that we, the customers, can gain acces to this software-database before the bitcoin transfer or will the use of your service continue being an act of faith?
Now a question from a non US user:
- Can you please make the same sincerity effort with tainted coins policy? Look. I (and I'm sure a lot of people too) am in no way taking the risk of using your exchange because I suspect you use a dark tainted coin list and a tracking blockchain software to follow them. Is it any way that we, the customers, can gain acces to this software-database before the bitcoin transfer or will the use of your service continue being an act of faith?
I believe that this has been made clear already on the forum, but the short answer is : we are not going to do anything to this coins unless we are asked to. Basically if an exchange need our help and want us follow these coins we will do what we can to help.
So you are going to hold funds on request from other exchanges? Only exchanges no one else? Will you be telling the victim which exchange froze their funds?
Here you are a post from MagicalTux https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.817963
"We do not lock an account because of tainted coins, however we may require an ID. We may lock an account only if we have evidence the account owner is actually behind the theft, or if law enforcement have reached that conclusion and gets a court to order us to lock the account.
The coins may be returned to the real owner only if we actually caught and locked an account. If you are not the thief and act without knowledge that the coins you have are stolen, then you are "not wrong" (the place where you got the coins from is, and we may ask you where you transferred those coins from so the law enforcement can continue their investigation).
So far we have only been able to lock coins once (in 3 cases), and only a part. We cannot decide to return the coins to the original owner, a court has to decide this for us.
I'll see so we publish whatever we can publish on this next week."
Ok, I celebrate your suddenly sincerity stroke.
Now a question from a non US user:
- Can you please make the same sincerity effort with tainted coins policy? Look. I (and I'm sure a lot of people too) am in no way taking the risk of using your exchange because I suspect you use a dark tainted coin list and a tracking blockchain software to follow them. Is it any way that we, the customers, can gain acces to this software-database before the bitcoin transfer or will the use of your service continue being an act of faith?
Now a question from a non US user:
- Can you please make the same sincerity effort with tainted coins policy? Look. I (and I'm sure a lot of people too) am in no way taking the risk of using your exchange because I suspect you use a dark tainted coin list and a tracking blockchain software to follow them. Is it any way that we, the customers, can gain acces to this software-database before the bitcoin transfer or will the use of your service continue being an act of faith?
I believe that this has been made clear already on the forum, but the short answer is : we are not going to do anything to this coins unless we are asked to. Basically if an exchange need our help and want us follow these coins we will do what we can to help.
So you are going to hold funds on request from other exchanges? Only exchanges no one else? Will you be telling the victim which exchange froze their funds?
Thanks for the announcement. I heard these rumors and guessed it had to do with Dwolla, since I've had no trouble with SEPA, and I wasn't particularly worried about your solvency... but I think you guys deserve a lot of credit for stepping out in front of the rumors and giving everyone these clear, intelligible answers. I sure wish some other business owners would do that...
This community tends toward conspiracy theory, probably just because of the nature of Bitcoin, and there's no shortage of people itching to get publicly abusive and angry just to have their jollies in a forum. And ultimately if they're not just trolling, it's their money, and their right to do so; but not every business handles criticism very well, let alone the sheer volume and unwarranted intensity of abuse you guys are subjected to. You've shown again that you're a class act. My hat's off to you.
This community tends toward conspiracy theory, probably just because of the nature of Bitcoin, and there's no shortage of people itching to get publicly abusive and angry just to have their jollies in a forum. And ultimately if they're not just trolling, it's their money, and their right to do so; but not every business handles criticism very well, let alone the sheer volume and unwarranted intensity of abuse you guys are subjected to. You've shown again that you're a class act. My hat's off to you.
Thanks we really appreciate your comments and understanding of the situation.
Thanks for the announcement. I heard these rumors and guessed it had to do with Dwolla, since I've had no trouble with SEPA, and I wasn't particularly worried about your solvency... but I think you guys deserve a lot of credit for stepping out in front of the rumors and giving everyone these clear, intelligible answers. I sure wish some other business owners would do that...
This community tends toward conspiracy theory, probably just because of the nature of Bitcoin, and there's no shortage of people itching to get publicly abusive and angry just to have their jollies in a forum. And ultimately if they're not just trolling, it's their money, and their right to do so; but not every business handles criticism very well, let alone the sheer volume and unwarranted intensity of abuse you guys are subjected to. You've shown again that you're a class act. My hat's off to you.
This community tends toward conspiracy theory, probably just because of the nature of Bitcoin, and there's no shortage of people itching to get publicly abusive and angry just to have their jollies in a forum. And ultimately if they're not just trolling, it's their money, and their right to do so; but not every business handles criticism very well, let alone the sheer volume and unwarranted intensity of abuse you guys are subjected to. You've shown again that you're a class act. My hat's off to you.
Ok, I celebrate your suddenly sincerity stroke.
Now a question from a non US user:
- Can you please make the same sincerity effort with tainted coins policy? Look. I (and I'm sure a lot of people too) am in no way taking the risk of using your exchange because I suspect you use a dark tainted coin list and a tracking blockchain software to follow them. Is it any way that we, the customers, can gain acces to this software-database before the bitcoin transfer or will the use of your service continue being an act of faith?
Now a question from a non US user:
- Can you please make the same sincerity effort with tainted coins policy? Look. I (and I'm sure a lot of people too) am in no way taking the risk of using your exchange because I suspect you use a dark tainted coin list and a tracking blockchain software to follow them. Is it any way that we, the customers, can gain acces to this software-database before the bitcoin transfer or will the use of your service continue being an act of faith?
I believe that this has been made clear already on the forum, but the short answer is : we are not going to do anything to this coins unless we are asked to. Basically if an exchange need our help and want us follow these coins we will do what we can to help.
Payroll's a very specific purpose, though, and you have a specific relationship with the recipients and probably have more than enough identifying information on your employees to satisfy KYC requirements. It's not the same for AML purposes as sending large amounts of money by wire to people in various locations throughout the world whom you're not paying for goods or services and about whom you have limited information. Banks can and do impose transaction limits on accounts, especially when your business and/or your customers are seen as "high risk".
If you look at the cases where banks and money transmitters have received large fines for non-compliance with AML/KYC requirements, they've always involved large volumes of wire transfers to and from overseas jurisdictions and inadequate verification of identity, origin of funds and destination of funds.
If you look at the cases where banks and money transmitters have received large fines for non-compliance with AML/KYC requirements, they've always involved large volumes of wire transfers to and from overseas jurisdictions and inadequate verification of identity, origin of funds and destination of funds.
This is pretty much it. There are also some withdrawals which for various reasons need to be handled manually by us before being sent out, and there are only so many transactions that can be carried out by our staff in a given day.
Can you explain? I am trying to imagine it.
I'm trying to put myself in the seat of someone who doesn't have the luxury of sending an Excel spreadsheet to the bank and saying "please wire all this money", but nevertheles has all the information of the money he'd like to wire on my screen in front of him.
What does the bank want to be satisfied that I know who my customer is? Why couldn't I take that same spreadsheet, print it out, and then print copies of all the passports, driver's licenses, and all the other stuff they would want as proof I know who I'm sending my wire to. Then on each sheet of ID documentation, I would hand-write which wire it belongs to, for easy cross referencing. I would take it to the bank and say - here ya go - please let me know if any of this isn't enough.
I would imagine this would be limited mainly by how quickly I could sit and print people's documentation, but I can't imagine it would take me weeks where, for example, someone trying to pull $10k would have to wait a month.
And meanwhile, I would be able to safely report to my customer, "Yep, we submitted the wire request to the bank on
Now, if the banks dislike Gox's wire activity or something, that would be understandable... but this was not stated in the OP, which discusses problems with Dwolla.
We are talking about international wire here, remember we are in Japan, so whatever you are used to in the US, does not necessarily apply for us, also Banks in Japan are everything but flexible especially when it comes to receiving and sending money from overseas, they are really picky, way more than ones in Europe or the US.
Ok, I celebrate your suddenly sincerity stroke.
Now a question from a non US user:
- Can you please make the same sincerity effort with tainted coins policy? Look. I (and I'm sure a lot of people too) am in no way taking the risk of using your exchange because I suspect you use a dark tainted coin list and a tracking blockchain software to follow them. Is it any way that we, the customers, can gain acces to this software-database before the bitcoin transfer or will the use of your service continue being an act of faith?
Now a question from a non US user:
- Can you please make the same sincerity effort with tainted coins policy? Look. I (and I'm sure a lot of people too) am in no way taking the risk of using your exchange because I suspect you use a dark tainted coin list and a tracking blockchain software to follow them. Is it any way that we, the customers, can gain acces to this software-database before the bitcoin transfer or will the use of your service continue being an act of faith?
I bet it's hard to keep millions of dollars for other people and not touching it ?
That's BANKS, that's FRB BANKS.
That's BANKS, that's FRB BANKS.
Payroll's a very specific purpose, though, and you have a specific relationship with the recipients and probably have more than enough identifying information on your employees to satisfy KYC requirements. It's not the same for AML purposes as sending large amounts of money by wire to people in various locations throughout the world whom you're not paying for goods or services and about whom you have limited information. Banks can and do impose transaction limits on accounts, especially when your business and/or your customers are seen as "high risk".
If you look at the cases where banks and money transmitters have received large fines for non-compliance with AML/KYC requirements, they've always involved large volumes of wire transfers to and from overseas jurisdictions and inadequate verification of identity, origin of funds and destination of funds.
If you look at the cases where banks and money transmitters have received large fines for non-compliance with AML/KYC requirements, they've always involved large volumes of wire transfers to and from overseas jurisdictions and inadequate verification of identity, origin of funds and destination of funds.
This is pretty much it. There are also some withdrawals which for various reasons need to be handled manually by us before being sent out, and there are only so many transactions that can be carried out by our staff in a given day.
Can you explain? I am trying to imagine it.
I'm trying to put myself in the seat of someone who doesn't have the luxury of sending an Excel spreadsheet to the bank and saying "please wire all this money", but nevertheles has all the information of the money he'd like to wire on my screen in front of him.
What does the bank want to be satisfied that I know who my customer is? Why couldn't I take that same spreadsheet, print it out, and then print copies of all the passports, driver's licenses, and all the other stuff they would want as proof I know who I'm sending my wire to. Then on each sheet of ID documentation, I would hand-write which wire it belongs to, for easy cross referencing. I would take it to the bank and say - here ya go - please let me know if any of this isn't enough.
I would imagine this would be limited mainly by how quickly I could sit and print people's documentation, but I can't imagine it would take me weeks where, for example, someone trying to pull $10k would have to wait a month.
And meanwhile, I would be able to safely report to my customer, "Yep, we submitted the wire request to the bank on
Now, if the banks dislike Gox's wire activity or something, that would be understandable... but this was not stated in the OP, which discusses problems with Dwolla.
Dylan, in payroll, when we want to move money to lots of people at a time, we send a text file, or an excel spreadsheet, or even just take a printout to a processor or bank. There is no amount of activity (especially when the bank is charging a hefty fee for each wire) that would ever make a bank say, "Whoa there, that's too much, it's going to take us days/weeks to do all of this". They would jump on that shit like throwing fresh steak into a pack of hungry stray dogs.
Payroll's a very specific purpose, though, and you have a specific relationship with the recipients and probably have more than enough identifying information on your employees to satisfy KYC requirements. It's not the same for AML purposes as sending large amounts of money by wire to people in various locations throughout the world whom you're not paying for goods or services and about whom you have limited information. Banks can and do impose transaction limits on accounts, especially when your business and/or your customers are seen as "high risk".
If you look at the cases where banks and money transmitters have received large fines for non-compliance with AML/KYC requirements, they've always involved large volumes of wire transfers to and from overseas jurisdictions and inadequate verification of identity, origin of funds and destination of funds.
This is pretty much it. There are also some withdrawals which for various reasons need to be handled manually by us before being sent out, and there are only so many transactions that can be carried out by our staff in a given day.
Dylan, in payroll, when we want to move money to lots of people at a time, we send a text file, or an excel spreadsheet, or even just take a printout to a processor or bank. There is no amount of activity (especially when the bank is charging a hefty fee for each wire) that would ever make a bank say, "Whoa there, that's too much, it's going to take us days/weeks to do all of this". They would jump on that shit like throwing fresh steak into a pack of hungry stray dogs.
Payroll's a very specific purpose, though, and you have a specific relationship with the recipients and probably have more than enough identifying information on your employees to satisfy KYC requirements. It's not the same for AML purposes as sending large amounts of money by wire to people in various locations throughout the world whom you're not paying for goods or services and about whom you have limited information. Banks can and do impose transaction limits on accounts, especially when your business and/or your customers are seen as "high risk".
If you look at the cases where banks and money transmitters have received large fines for non-compliance with AML/KYC requirements, they've always involved large volumes of wire transfers to and from overseas jurisdictions and inadequate verification of identity, origin of funds and destination of funds.
Dylan, in payroll, when we want to move money to lots of people at a time, we send a text file, or an excel spreadsheet, or even just take a printout to a processor or bank. There is no amount of activity (especially when the bank is charging a hefty fee for each wire) that would ever make a bank say, "Whoa there, that's too much, it's going to take us days/weeks to do all of this". They would jump on that shit like throwing fresh steak into a pack of hungry stray dogs.
Why are wire transfers affected?
Because: along with 5% of US Dollar wire transfers which is an unfortunate flow-on effect.
would be good to know to/from which banks specifically
Agreed.That doesn't help... wtf is a "flow-on effect"?
Because Dwolla withdrawals are delayed, a number of our users have cancelled their Dwolla withdrawals and are performing wire transfers. This has increased the number of wire transfers being sent out, slowing down some wire transfers in America slightly. No particular banks are affected, it simply depends on the number of withdrawals in the queue and a number of other factors like withdrawal limits for a given Mt.Gox owned account, and so on.
Thank you for the clarification.
Why are wire transfers affected?
Because: along with 5% of US Dollar wire transfers which is an unfortunate flow-on effect.
would be good to know to/from which banks specifically
Agreed.That doesn't help... wtf is a "flow-on effect"?
Because Dwolla withdrawals are delayed, a number of our users have cancelled their Dwolla withdrawals and are performing wire transfers. This has increased the number of wire transfers being sent out, slowing down some wire transfers in America slightly. No particular banks are affected, it simply depends on the number of withdrawals in the queue and a number of other factors like withdrawal limits for a given Mt.Gox owned account, and so on.
Why are wire transfers affected?
Because: along with 5% of US Dollar wire transfers which is an unfortunate flow-on effect.
would be good to know to/from which banks specifically
Agreed.That doesn't help... wtf is a "flow-on effect"?
Why are wire transfers affected?
Because: along with 5% of US Dollar wire transfers which is an unfortunate flow-on effect.
would be good to know to/from which banks specifically
Agreed. Could you do the same thing as was done at the time of the big hack last year and transfer a specified number of bitcoins to a specified address, after having announced the address and the amount? Ideally, we would see the amount moved cover the total asks, at minimum.
And yes moving a large amount of coins would be a good idea.
This.
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