Topic: ANN {PoWH3D}🚀 PROOF OF WEAK HANDS 🚀 2,790 ETH INVESTED SO FAR 🚀 NO ICO (Read 1502 times)
March 26, 2018, 09:51:16 PM
We are continuing to grow and the contract nearly at 2,800 ETH, so much negativity here locking this thread, we didn't need it to get where we are so can go on without it just fine. Thank You to everyone who contributed with positive comments.
March 26, 2018, 03:07:56 PM
The contact idea is a great idea but they should have made it public and set a buy in limit at the beginning rather than buying the majority of tokens for themselves, the creators are laughing all the way to the bank.
I find this being the main problem with this game. Most of the cheapest tokens have been bought in closed circles (just as a premine) long before the publishing of this ANN. There would be nothing bad in that, would it have done in a more transparent way, and, possibly, also in a more fair way. The fact that these early investors (the devs?) are now slowly selling would prove that they don't really believe in the long term success of the project but they are eager to cash out something as soon as possible. In other words: the game is quite brilliantly thought, but not properly managed.
Hey mate - there were no closed circles. I came in through a YouTuber promoting it. They had the community busy shilling their coin so they could get much needed work done on their smart contract.
If you put in a mere Eth now, at the price it is per coin now (0.0077 Eth) - think of what it can be worth in say 3 months time? I don't make much divs, it's the price I'm interested in.
No close circles, huh? I understand it has been running for quite some time now, one month or so, but this ANN thread was created only 3 days ago. Why would you hide the project from the community for so long? Why would you suddenly make the ANN now, if you forgot to do it for one month? Why would early inverstors already sell on the newcomers? I guess you probably must be an alt of the devs. A pity you could not apply a good idea in a fair way.
I can't speak as to why it didn't occur to the devs to create the ANN until a few days ago. But it's good to keep in mind that this project originated in 4chan as a joke and it's still steeped in jokes and memes. The devs likely have little to no experience doing anything like this - it's new territory for them and they're learning as they go. They definitely haven't been hiding the project, it's made it to the front page of r/cc at least twice that I know of, and they've been completely transparent about every step of the project (including the early buy ins) in their Discord.
The two main devs haven't sold their tokens, and one of them claims they don't intend to ever sell, they're in it for the long-term dividends. If some of the ambassadors have sold, I don't see how that's a bad thing, it just means a larger percentage of the tokens are held by the general community instead of the early investors. The biggest token holders bought into their positions just in the past week.
I understand your concerns, but I don't think there's been any serious mismanagement of how the game has been deployed. Has it been a little haphazard? Undeniably, and the lateness of the ANN points to that fact. But that doesn't take away from the cleverness of the game, which is running successfully, and because it's decentralized will continue to run so long as people are interested in playing.
March 26, 2018, 12:41:54 PM
The contact idea is a great idea but they should have made it public and set a buy in limit at the beginning rather than buying the majority of tokens for themselves, the creators are laughing all the way to the bank.
I find this being the main problem with this game. Most of the cheapest tokens have been bought in closed circles (just as a premine) long before the publishing of this ANN. There would be nothing bad in that, would it have done in a more transparent way, and, possibly, also in a more fair way. The fact that these early investors (the devs?) are now slowly selling would prove that they don't really believe in the long term success of the project but they are eager to cash out something as soon as possible. In other words: the game is quite brilliantly thought, but not properly managed.
Hey mate - there were no closed circles. I came in through a YouTuber promoting it. They had the community busy shilling their coin so they could get much needed work done on their smart contract.
If you put in a mere Eth now, at the price it is per coin now (0.0077 Eth) - think of what it can be worth in say 3 months time? I don't make much divs, it's the price I'm interested in.
No close circles, huh? I understand it has been running for quite some time now, one month or so, but this ANN thread was created only 3 days ago. Why would you hide the project from the community for so long? Why would you suddenly make the ANN now, if you forgot to do it for one month? Why would early inverstors already sell on the newcomers? I guess you probably must be an alt of the devs. A pity you could not apply a good idea in a fair way.
As you've been discussing this with me the contract is now 0.00793. So we've gained a few fractions, and I'm up again.
But, y'know, crypto isn't for the faint of heart. You'd probably be better staying as you are
March 26, 2018, 12:07:21 PM
The contact idea is a great idea but they should have made it public and set a buy in limit at the beginning rather than buying the majority of tokens for themselves, the creators are laughing all the way to the bank.
I find this being the main problem with this game. Most of the cheapest tokens have been bought in closed circles (just as a premine) long before the publishing of this ANN. There would be nothing bad in that, would it have done in a more transparent way, and, possibly, also in a more fair way. The fact that these early investors (the devs?) are now slowly selling would prove that they don't really believe in the long term success of the project but they are eager to cash out something as soon as possible. In other words: the game is quite brilliantly thought, but not properly managed.
Hey mate - there were no closed circles. I came in through a YouTuber promoting it. They had the community busy shilling their coin so they could get much needed work done on their smart contract.
If you put in a mere Eth now, at the price it is per coin now (0.0077 Eth) - think of what it can be worth in say 3 months time? I don't make much divs, it's the price I'm interested in.
No close circles, huh? I understand it has been running for quite some time now, one month or so, but this ANN thread was created only 3 days ago. Why would you hide the project from the community for so long? Why would you suddenly make the ANN now, if you forgot to do it for one month? Why would early inverstors already sell on the newcomers? I guess you probably must be an alt of the devs. A pity you could not apply a good idea in a fair way.
March 26, 2018, 10:36:40 AM
Not just paying off the earlier players my point is if I were to invest 1 Ether than I get around 130 tokens and from what I understand they take 20% from that, 10% when you join and 10% if you leave so unless you can invest a lot more you are going to lose out and the only real winners are those with large holdings.
Like you said if you get in now all you are doing is donating to the big holders. Fuck that.
Like you said if you get in now all you are doing is donating to the big holders. Fuck that.
The initial 10% is already calculated in your 130 tokens upon purchase. The large holders do indeed profit the most but not because of the system is skewed that way, but because understand and take the risk of their large holdings for the largest share of the pie.
So if you assume that buying now is donating to big holders/early investors? What the hell are you doing in crypto anyways? That statement is true for ALL cryptocurrencies, BTC, ETH or any other Alt. Buying BTC now is just paying those who bought in 2010. Does that deter you from purchasing BTC, I don't think so.
You also assume that the top x amount of addresses P3D is in hands of the the developers/whales but how do you know?
You don't, you just assume.
Do you know that the top x amount of addresses of any other top 100 coin is in the hands of developers/whales? You don't, you just assume.
But I can tell you that those holdings are waaaayyy more skewed that P3D's since P3D has actually been transparent in their actions to gain trust of the community.
Stop this blind favoritism of other coins and build up your statements with facts.
And it is not blind favouritism of other coins, what a dumb comment.
I actually like this idea but I think it is too late to invest to make any money now, especially now that there are so little coins for 1 ETH, anyway, I wish you well that got in early.
Will not be back to put shit on this thread, as I said I like the concept but the boat has already sailed.
March 26, 2018, 07:41:25 AM
Not just paying off the earlier players my point is if I were to invest 1 Ether than I get around 130 tokens and from what I understand they take 20% from that, 10% when you join and 10% if you leave so unless you can invest a lot more you are going to lose out and the only real winners are those with large holdings.
Like you said if you get in now all you are doing is donating to the big holders. Fuck that.
Like you said if you get in now all you are doing is donating to the big holders. Fuck that.
The initial 10% is already calculated in your 130 tokens upon purchase. The large holders do indeed profit the most but not because of the system is skewed that way, but because understand and take the risk of their large holdings for the largest share of the pie.
So if you assume that buying now is donating to big holders/early investors? What the hell are you doing in crypto anyways? That statement is true for ALL cryptocurrencies, BTC, ETH or any other Alt. Buying BTC now is just paying those who bought in 2010. Does that deter you from purchasing BTC, I don't think so.
You also assume that the top x amount of addresses P3D is in hands of the the developers/whales but how do you know?
You don't, you just assume.
Do you know that the top x amount of addresses of any other top 100 coin is in the hands of developers/whales? You don't, you just assume.
But I can tell you that those holdings are waaaayyy more skewed that P3D's since P3D has actually been transparent in their actions to gain trust of the community.
Stop this blind favoritism of other coins and build up your statements with facts.
Pretty much what I've been saying. Wish I could give you a thumbs up
March 26, 2018, 06:38:42 AM
Not just paying off the earlier players my point is if I were to invest 1 Ether than I get around 130 tokens and from what I understand they take 20% from that, 10% when you join and 10% if you leave so unless you can invest a lot more you are going to lose out and the only real winners are those with large holdings.
Like you said if you get in now all you are doing is donating to the big holders. Fuck that.
Like you said if you get in now all you are doing is donating to the big holders. Fuck that.
The initial 10% is already calculated in your 130 tokens upon purchase. The large holders do indeed profit the most but not because of the system is skewed that way, but because understand and take the risk of their large holdings for the largest share of the pie.
So if you assume that buying now is donating to big holders/early investors? What the hell are you doing in crypto anyways? That statement is true for ALL cryptocurrencies, BTC, ETH or any other Alt. Buying BTC now is just paying those who bought in 2010. Does that deter you from purchasing BTC, I don't think so.
You also assume that the top x amount of addresses P3D is in hands of the the developers/whales but how do you know?
You don't, you just assume.
Do you know that the top x amount of addresses of any other top 100 coin is in the hands of developers/whales? You don't, you just assume.
But I can tell you that those holdings are waaaayyy more skewed that P3D's since P3D has actually been transparent in their actions to gain trust of the community.
Stop this blind favoritism of other coins and build up your statements with facts.
March 26, 2018, 06:18:16 AM
The contact idea is a great idea but they should have made it public and set a buy in limit at the beginning rather than buying the majority of tokens for themselves, the creators are laughing all the way to the bank.
I find this being the main problem with this game. Most of the cheapest tokens have been bought in closed circles (just as a premine) long before the publishing of this ANN. There would be nothing bad in that, would it have done in a more transparent way, and, possibly, also in a more fair way. The fact that these early investors (the devs?) are now slowly selling would prove that they don't really believe in the long term success of the project but they are eager to cash out something as soon as possible. In other words: the game is quite brilliantly thought, but not properly managed.
Hey mate - there were no closed circles. I came in through a YouTuber promoting it. They had the community busy shilling their coin so they could get much needed work done on their smart contract.
If you put in a mere Eth now, at the price it is per coin now (0.0077 Eth) - think of what it can be worth in say 3 months time? I don't make much divs, it's the price I'm interested in.
March 26, 2018, 05:44:38 AM
The contact idea is a great idea but they should have made it public and set a buy in limit at the beginning rather than buying the majority of tokens for themselves, the creators are laughing all the way to the bank.
I find this being the main problem with this game. Most of the cheapest tokens have been bought in closed circles (just as a premine) long before the publishing of this ANN. There would be nothing bad in that, would it have done in a more transparent way, and, possibly, also in a more fair way. The fact that these early investors (the devs?) are now slowly selling would prove that they don't really believe in the long term success of the project but they are eager to cash out something as soon as possible. In other words: the game is quite brilliantly thought, but not properly managed.
March 26, 2018, 05:30:11 AM
What proof is there that there is actually 20 advisors, I am calling scam on that one and what was the original price at the beginning of the contract?
Looking at the first transactions of it there were lots of buys on the very first day so that is equivalent to a massive premine now they are earning from every new investor and slowly dumping. The only real winners in this are the guys that created it and their friends and those who invested in the first few days, anything now it is really not worth investing.
I am happy you are making money but it is really not any value for any new investors unless they have enough to be in the top 50 or so because the fact you will lose 20% on entry and exit and the low returns based on volume only means for a small investor like myself it is simply not worth it. The contact idea is a great idea but they should have made it public and set a buy in limit at the beginning rather than buying the majority of tokens for themselves, the creators are laughing all the way to the bank.
So the price is determined by volume if people keep investing it will continue to rise but if they sell it will drop, like any other market.
There is no guarantee of ROI like all other Crypto projects.
March 26, 2018, 02:48:31 AM
so many newbie accounts, shilling the platform. Coincidence?
what was the price for the 1st people who bought in to the platform? Because the bitcointalk thread exist only since today.
No it is not a coincidence, we have mentioned the fact that this Bitcointalk Thread now exists and some have decided to create accounts and post in it, that is fine with us.what was the price for the 1st people who bought in to the platform? Because the bitcointalk thread exist only since today.
We have also asked that they do not share their Masternode referral links here but what the general public does is out of our control.
The price was quite low to start and has grown to where it is today and continues to grow. If you want to dig deeper or find out who the main holders it is all available for public viewing here. https://etherscan.io/token/0xb3775fb83f7d12a36e0475abdd1fca35c091efbe#balances
With the largest token holder at 2.39%. We had one purchase yesterday of 99 ETH so that put that person in the top 3 or 4.
Yes, and somewhere in the thread it was mentioned that the contract has already existed for one month, and people had already been investing, so how comes this thread is new? How would people know about this project before the ann was published?
Many found out via word of mouth or from Youtube, so it was not kept a secret, it was only later decided to have a Bitcointalk Account as that is what most projects have. This video was made 1 Month ago at project launch so it is not as though it was kept "hush hush" as your post suggests, it was just that with so much going on creating an official account here was not a priority. In Hindsight, yes we probably should have created an ANN at the time but we cannot change the past so it is what it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxTb6yGiq6Q
When we created the ANN there was 1,850 in ETH invested, now we are sitting at 2,145 ETH.
And please keep in mind even if you invest now if one of the whales or top 20 token holders has a weak hand and withdraws, you will profit from that, the same as you will profit from any new investors, so it really is never too late, the contract will run for as long as Ethereum is running which we believe we be past our life-spans.
And the beauty of it, if 3 or 4 of the largest holders were to actually dump, the price will drop, everyone still holding will get a percentage of that "sell" and it will create new entry points at lower prices therefore making it even more viable, and no matter who dumps (if they actually did) the contract will still continue to run, it is immutable in perpetuity.
so many newbie accounts, shilling the platform. Coincidence?
what was the price for the 1st people who bought in to the platform? Because the bitcointalk thread exist only since today.
No it is not a coincidence, we have mentioned the fact that this Bitcointalk Thread now exists and some have decided to create accounts and post in it, that is fine with us.what was the price for the 1st people who bought in to the platform? Because the bitcointalk thread exist only since today.
We have also asked that they do not share their Masternode referral links here but what the general public does is out of our control.
The price was quite low to start and has grown to where it is today and continues to grow. If you want to dig deeper or find out who the main holders it is all available for public viewing here. https://etherscan.io/token/0xb3775fb83f7d12a36e0475abdd1fca35c091efbe#balances
With the largest token holder at 2.39%. We had one purchase yesterday of 99 ETH so that put that person in the top 3 or 4.
Yes, and somewhere in the thread it was mentioned that the contract has already existed for one month, and people had already been investing, so how comes this thread is new? How would people know about this project before the ann was published?
Many found out via word of mouth or from Youtube, so it was not kept a secret, it was only later decided to have a Bitcointalk Account as that is what most projects have. This video was made 1 Month ago at project launch so it is not as though it was kept "hush hush" as your post suggests, it was just that with so much going on creating an official account here was not a priority. In Hindsight, yes we probably should have created an ANN at the time but we cannot change the past so it is what it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxTb6yGiq6Q
When we created the ANN there was 1,850 in ETH invested, now we are sitting at 2,145 ETH.
And please keep in mind even if you invest now if one of the whales or top 20 token holders has a weak hand and withdraws, you will profit from that, the same as you will profit from any new investors, so it really is never too late, the contract will run for as long as Ethereum is running which we believe we be past our life-spans.
And the beauty of it, if 3 or 4 of the largest holders were to actually dump, the price will drop, everyone still holding will get a percentage of that "sell" and it will create new entry points at lower prices therefore making it even more viable, and no matter who dumps (if they actually did) the contract will still continue to run, it is immutable in perpetuity.
And you say that 2 ETH for Developers and 20 ETH for advisors, how do we know these advisors actually exist and are not the developers themselves?
If that were the case it means that the Developers own 65% of all tokens and are the main ones making any money compared to the other holders.
I looked at investing 1 Ether but to me it is too much risk for little reward when there is 65% of all tokens potentially in the hands of a small group of people and I noticed that on your rich list nearly all of those in the top 20 are selling tokens each day little by little (I have taken screen shots the last 3 days to compare them) so to me although I like the idea of the contract like you said and it cannot be changed the problem is that there is 65% of all owners possibly being 5 to 12 or so people. So for that reason I will pass. Good luck with it but I cannot see it ending well because the top 20 is already starting to to syphon off money each 24 hours.
Just fyi... when you posted this there was approx. 2100 Eth in the contract, with a buy price of 0.007046/P3D and a sell price of 0.005765/P3D. Right now, less than 48 hrs later, there is 2537 Eth in the contract, with a buy price of 0.007737/P3D and a sell price of 0.006331/P3D.
So if you'd thrown 1 Eth in then, you'd be around 1/2 way to break even now (if you include the divs you would have received). Obviously if you think the volume is going to stall or decrease, it's risky because the sell price will go down. Bear in mind though that if there is a big sell off, you'll be receiving divs from that as well, and the more people who sell, your percentage of the coins will increase and the more divs you'll receive. Volatility isn't necessarily a bad thing in this game, it can be profitable. Thus why you'll often see folks in the Discord actively encouraging people to SELL SELL SELL. However, if you think this game has some legs, if you think the balance is going to increase to 3k, 4k, 5k+, then it's a pretty safe bet that you'll earn a nice return on your 1 Eth.
But of course there are no guarantees. It's a game. It's a gamble. Play it for the fun of it, and if this doesn't seem fun to you, then you're right to pass.
March 26, 2018, 02:01:00 AM
I looked at investing 1 Ether but to me it is too much risk for little reward when there is 65% of all tokens potentially in the hands of a small group of people
What difference does it make to you if 65% is in the hands of a single person or 100 different people? Either way you're late to the game and will be paying off the earlier players if you get in.
What difference is to you if you are early or late. You will pay 10% when you come in. Does it matter if you pay that to 3 people or to 1000?
Everybody pays when buying/selling/transferring tokens.
I am also syphoning every day by taking the divs directly into my ETH address. I was not very early on this.
If the devs put 25 eth each into this means that they trust the project and they want to make money being very early into the project (their own).
Everybody wanted to receive a personal email from the dev asking them to invest, I am sure of that.
You now know about the project, do your DD and ask away if you still have questions. Early, Late..it is the same thing as long as Volume exists.
What is the problem if 50%-60-70% of the tokens are held by one address only. Anyone can buy for 2000 ETH now and own that 50%...there is no max supply of the token. Buying mints tokens, selling burns them. It is simple math. USE IT!
March 25, 2018, 07:55:45 PM
If people buy, then the price goes up. If people sell then the price goes down. It pays off early investors in the same way that Bitcoin did. Buy 10,000 bitcoin in 2010 -- be a millionaire now. Early investing works for everyone. Only if it's a good project mind you. I can think of a few coins that have tanked over the years.
This would have been a good thing if everyone was allowed to buy in at the same time as everyone else but now the only real winners are those who have big holdings. And my personal belief is that the 20 advisors thing is bullshit and is really just a small group of people that own over 50% of the tokens. It is the same thing as having a 30 to 50 percent premine. And I am guessing you are one of those people that's why you are promoting it so much.
Haha. So how do you actually propose that everyone is allowed to buy in at the same time? I got in early - no-one stopped me. That's like me not buying bitcoin in 2014 because I wasn't told about it in 2008 lol.
Nope. I only shoved in an Eth, which now sits at around just over 2 Eth.
I've actually watched it grow in worth over the last two weeks too. I joined when there was only a few hundred Eth in the bag. I can vouch that I haven't seen anyone shove in a three figured Eth sum yet (and all transactions are visible). Also take note that if a small group of people want to come in and buy up the tokens then it is their freedom to do so. It's their Ethereum. That's Decentralisation. I will say there's no larger than a singular 4% stake, though.
Looking at the first transactions of it there were lots of buys on the very first day so that is equivalent to a massive premine now they are earning from every new investor and slowly dumping. The only real winners in this are the guys that created it and their friends and those who invested in the first few days, anything now it is really not worth investing.
I am happy you are making money but it is really not any value for any new investors unless they have enough to be in the top 50 or so because the fact you will lose 20% on entry and exit and the low returns based on volume only means for a small investor like myself it is simply not worth it. The contact idea is a great idea but they should have made it public and set a buy in limit at the beginning rather than buying the majority of tokens for themselves, the creators are laughing all the way to the bank.
March 25, 2018, 07:37:17 PM
If people buy, then the price goes up. If people sell then the price goes down. It pays off early investors in the same way that Bitcoin did. Buy 10,000 bitcoin in 2010 -- be a millionaire now. Early investing works for everyone. Only if it's a good project mind you. I can think of a few coins that have tanked over the years.
This would have been a good thing if everyone was allowed to buy in at the same time as everyone else but now the only real winners are those who have big holdings. And my personal belief is that the 20 advisors thing is bullshit and is really just a small group of people that own over 50% of the tokens. It is the same thing as having a 30 to 50 percent premine. And I am guessing you are one of those people that's why you are promoting it so much.
Haha. So how do you actually propose that everyone is allowed to buy in at the same time? I got in early - no-one stopped me. That's like me not buying bitcoin in 2014 because I wasn't told about it in 2008 lol.
Nope. I only shoved in an Eth, which now sits at around just over 2 Eth.
I've actually watched it grow in worth over the last two weeks too. I joined when there was only a few hundred Eth in the bag. I can vouch that I haven't seen anyone shove in a three figured Eth sum yet (and all transactions are visible). Also take note that if a small group of people want to come in and buy up the tokens then it is their freedom to do so. It's their Ethereum. That's Decentralisation. I will say there's no larger than a singular 4% stake, though.
March 25, 2018, 06:52:33 PM
If people buy, then the price goes up. If people sell then the price goes down. It pays off early investors in the same way that Bitcoin did. Buy 10,000 bitcoin in 2010 -- be a millionaire now. Early investing works for everyone. Only if it's a good project mind you. I can think of a few coins that have tanked over the years.
This would have been a good thing if everyone was allowed to buy in at the same time as everyone else but now the only real winners are those who have big holdings. And my personal belief is that the 20 advisors thing is bullshit and is really just a small group of people that own over 50% of the tokens. It is the same thing as having a 30 to 50 percent premine. And I am guessing you are one of those people that's why you are promoting it so much.
March 25, 2018, 06:46:30 PM
I looked at investing 1 Ether but to me it is too much risk for little reward when there is 65% of all tokens potentially in the hands of a small group of people
What difference does it make to you if 65% is in the hands of a single person or 100 different people? Either way you're late to the game and will be paying off the earlier players if you get in.
Like you said if you get in now all you are doing is donating to the big holders. Fuck that.
March 25, 2018, 06:34:18 PM
Some interesting things that I have seen in the last couple of days:
- There is still not 1 address which has more than 3% of the tokens
- Price has been more stable than any other coin and keeps on rising steadily
- Whales are beginning to notice us. Our recent 99 ETH whale just got kicked from the #1 token holder spot
- Updates on the project will be released soon to incentivize more buying and selling
- Community is growing and more community programmers are interested in developing an ecosystem
- The average buy in range has increased from [0 - 1] up to [1 - 2] ETH
- There is still not 1 address which has more than 3% of the tokens
- Price has been more stable than any other coin and keeps on rising steadily
- Whales are beginning to notice us. Our recent 99 ETH whale just got kicked from the #1 token holder spot
- Updates on the project will be released soon to incentivize more buying and selling
- Community is growing and more community programmers are interested in developing an ecosystem
- The average buy in range has increased from [0 - 1] up to [1 - 2] ETH
March 25, 2018, 03:38:21 PM
I looked at investing 1 Ether but to me it is too much risk for little reward when there is 65% of all tokens potentially in the hands of a small group of people
What difference does it make to you if 65% is in the hands of a single person or 100 different people? Either way you're late to the game and will be paying off the earlier players if you get in.
Isn't that the way every crypto ever invented works?
If people buy, then the price goes up. If people sell then the price goes down. It pays off early investors in the same way that Bitcoin did. Buy 10,000 bitcoin in 2010 -- be a millionaire now. Early investing works for everyone. Only if it's a good project mind you. I can think of a few coins that have tanked over the years.
March 25, 2018, 02:15:01 PM
Life can be a little stagnant and boring at times. Chess and other board games can be boring, too. Why not spice things up a bit and play the PoWH3D game and get paid while playing it!
March 25, 2018, 11:50:44 AM
I looked at investing 1 Ether but to me it is too much risk for little reward when there is 65% of all tokens potentially in the hands of a small group of people
What difference does it make to you if 65% is in the hands of a single person or 100 different people? Either way you're late to the game and will be paying off the earlier players if you get in.
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