[ANN] QIBUCK COIN - X13 - POS/POBH - 1st Proof of Baghold and asset backed. - page 47.

poornamelessme

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Quote from: Conurtrol on August 14, 2014, 10:58:54 AM

The only thing nonsensical here is your post. Did you bother to actually read the plan or did you just skim it? Using 25% of the funds to buy back 50% of the coins will increase our ROI by 50%. If you can't understand that then I can't help you.

I do have a question or two for the supporters of buying back/burning ...

And to get it in early, for the 20th time, I understand the math, I just disagree with the premise that it would benefit the coin.

Is your goal to increase dividends or to increase the price of the coin?

Spending 25 btc to buy/burn coins is no guarantee an increase in the price of the coin, so basically the entire idea I take it is to increase ROI (from dividends) 50%, correct?

One problem which has already been stated is, longterm, how can we say that 50% increase in dividends will be better than if the team simply used that 25 btc properly?

What if they end up short of funds due to some investments not panning out? Wouldn't that 25 btc come in handy then? Or what if they invest that 25 btc in other coins that skyrocket? Or coin features, say a decentralized marketplace, or something similar, that proves very popular? We can't say for certain that the dividend increase from burning will be of greater benefit longterm than if the 25 btc is spent on other things.

And as candlesticks has stated, I expect a lot of people to not even bother with the dividends thing. If the team was smart, they would have made the requirement 1K coins or higher. It would have increased dividends for those most willing to buy the coin in the first place, and also increased demand to reach at least 1K. But as it is, I simply expect a number of folks to leave the coin on an exchange since they had no plans to hold anyway... and some with 100-900 or so coins may figure it's not even worth the bother of signing up for, since their dividend will be so small.

MadGhost

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Quote from: Conurtrol on August 14, 2014, 11:08:04 AM

Quote from: candlesticks on August 14, 2014, 11:02:49 AM

Quote from: Conurtrol on August 14, 2014, 10:27:09 AM

Quote from: candlesticks on August 14, 2014, 10:19:16 AM

Quote from: Conurtrol on August 14, 2014, 10:05:28 AM

Here is another way of saying it:

100 Bitcoins were invested in the ICO at a price of .0002. At a price of .0001, 25bitcoins would buy half the QBK that exist. The remaining half of the QBK would receive dividends from 75 Bitcoins worth of investments. So 1.5 BTC per 1BTC invested. That is 50% more than the current 1BTC per 1BTC invested.

Any QBK that is on the exchange, that you are able to purchase, are not taking away from your dividends anyway. So your simple math, isn't so simple. It would not do anything for the shareholders, except remove BTC from the investment fund. There are 95000 Quibuck on poloniex that are not eligible for dividends at this time. Can your logical mind wrap your head around this very, very simple fact?

1. How much BTC would you like to be used to purchase QBK?

2. How high do you want to push the price up?

3. What would keep the price at the level it was pushed to?

4. How can you be sure that the higher price wouldn't trigger a dump from people who bought at <9000?

Are you saying that the Poloniex QBK won't be put in a wallet at some point to be eligible for dividends? Doubtful.

1. A max of 25BTC. This still leaves the devs 75 BTC to work with.
2. I think .0001 (half the ICO price) keeps it simple and highly profitable.
3. If 25 BTC gets dumped to us at .0001 then we should have a party. We will be getting 50% more dividends on our QBK forever. If people continue dumping (highly unlikely) then other people will recognize a great buying opportunity on a coin that just increased it's dividends to bagholders by 50%
4. We want people to dump to us at .0001 so this is not a consideration

I am saying that many coins will remain on exchanges, some people will pull them out for dividends, some will leave on the exchanges for day trading and profit taking. Are you saying that all the coins on the Poloniex are going to be removed for dividends? Doubtful.

Of course not 100% of people will remove their coins in order to receive dividends. The same few percentage of people will forget or not care under either scenario. It's a constant and has no effect on the math.

this is how the system works as in order to get something you need to lose something

Conurtrol

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Quote from: candlesticks on August 14, 2014, 11:02:49 AM

Quote from: Conurtrol on August 14, 2014, 10:27:09 AM

Quote from: candlesticks on August 14, 2014, 10:19:16 AM

Quote from: Conurtrol on August 14, 2014, 10:05:28 AM

Here is another way of saying it:

100 Bitcoins were invested in the ICO at a price of .0002. At a price of .0001, 25bitcoins would buy half the QBK that exist. The remaining half of the QBK would receive dividends from 75 Bitcoins worth of investments. So 1.5 BTC per 1BTC invested. That is 50% more than the current 1BTC per 1BTC invested.

Any QBK that is on the exchange, that you are able to purchase, are not taking away from your dividends anyway. So your simple math, isn't so simple. It would not do anything for the shareholders, except remove BTC from the investment fund. There are 95000 Quibuck on poloniex that are not eligible for dividends at this time. Can your logical mind wrap your head around this very, very simple fact?

1. How much BTC would you like to be used to purchase QBK?

2. How high do you want to push the price up?

3. What would keep the price at the level it was pushed to?

4. How can you be sure that the higher price wouldn't trigger a dump from people who bought at <9000?

Are you saying that the Poloniex QBK won't be put in a wallet at some point to be eligible for dividends? Doubtful.

1. A max of 25BTC. This still leaves the devs 75 BTC to work with.
2. I think .0001 (half the ICO price) keeps it simple and highly profitable.
3. If 25 BTC gets dumped to us at .0001 then we should have a party. We will be getting 50% more dividends on our QBK forever. If people continue dumping (highly unlikely) then other people will recognize a great buying opportunity on a coin that just increased it's dividends to bagholders by 50%
4. We want people to dump to us at .0001 so this is not a consideration

I am saying that many coins will remain on exchanges, some people will pull them out for dividends, some will leave on the exchanges for day trading and profit taking. Are you saying that all the coins on the Poloniex are going to be removed for dividends? Doubtful.

Of course not 100% of people will remove their coins in order to receive dividends. The same few percentage of people will forget or not care under either scenario. It's a constant and has no effect on the math.

candlesticks

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Quote from: Conurtrol on August 14, 2014, 10:27:09 AM

Quote from: candlesticks on August 14, 2014, 10:19:16 AM

Quote from: Conurtrol on August 14, 2014, 10:05:28 AM

Here is another way of saying it:

100 Bitcoins were invested in the ICO at a price of .0002. At a price of .0001, 25bitcoins would buy half the QBK that exist. The remaining half of the QBK would receive dividends from 75 Bitcoins worth of investments. So 1.5 BTC per 1BTC invested. That is 50% more than the current 1BTC per 1BTC invested.

Any QBK that is on the exchange, that you are able to purchase, are not taking away from your dividends anyway. So your simple math, isn't so simple. It would not do anything for the shareholders, except remove BTC from the investment fund. There are 95000 Quibuck on poloniex that are not eligible for dividends at this time. Can your logical mind wrap your head around this very, very simple fact?

1. How much BTC would you like to be used to purchase QBK?

2. How high do you want to push the price up?

3. What would keep the price at the level it was pushed to?

4. How can you be sure that the higher price wouldn't trigger a dump from people who bought at <9000?

Are you saying that the Poloniex QBK won't be put in a wallet at some point to be eligible for dividends? Doubtful.

1. A max of 25BTC. This still leaves the devs 75 BTC to work with.
2. I think .0001 (half the ICO price) keeps it simple and highly profitable.
3. If 25 BTC gets dumped to us at .0001 then we should have a party. We will be getting 50% more dividends on our QBK forever. If people continue dumping (highly unlikely) then other people will recognize a great buying opportunity on a coin that just increased it's dividends to bagholders by 50%
4. We want people to dump to us at .0001 so this is not a consideration

I am saying that many coins will remain on exchanges, some people will pull them out for dividends, some will leave on the exchanges for day trading and profit taking. Are you saying that all the coins on the Poloniex are going to be removed for dividends? Doubtful.

Conurtrol

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Quote from: JTB800 on August 14, 2014, 10:54:05 AM

This conversation is ridiculous. 2 million coins is already too low for an all around coin (although not for an investment/dividend coin). They priced the ICO a bit high (or more than a bit) and it didn't work. That is all. The whole point of the coin is to take the ICO money and invest in profitable Bitcoin (and alts) projects. If they are successful at that, this could be a huge hit. If not, then it's just another coin.

But, to now take half of the investment dollars and use it to buy back the coins is nonsensical. Unless, and this is a big unless, they simply don't know what they are doing and/or they are dishonest. Otherwise, buying back the coins gives a short term boost to the coin and less money for investment (with less room for error). That is obviously nice for the immediate future and for people who want to sell as quickly as possible, but then we are all left with a coin that has less chance at success.

The only thing nonsensical here is your post. Did you bother to actually read the plan or did you just skim it? Using 25% of the funds to buy back 50% of the coins will increase our ROI by 50%. If you can't understand that then I can't help you.

JTB800

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This conversation is ridiculous. 2 million coins is already too low for an all around coin (although not for an investment/dividend coin). They priced the ICO a bit high (or more than a bit) and it didn't work. That is all. The whole point of the coin is to take the ICO money and invest in profitable Bitcoin (and alts) projects. If they are successful at that, this could be a huge hit. If not, then it's just another coin.

But, to now take half of the investment dollars and use it to buy back the coins is nonsensical. Unless, and this is a big unless, they simply don't know what they are doing and/or they are dishonest. Otherwise, buying back the coins gives a short term boost to the coin and less money for investment (with less room for error). That is obviously nice for the immediate future and for people who want to sell as quickly as possible, but then we are all left with a coin that has less chance at success.

Conurtrol

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Quote from: candlesticks on August 14, 2014, 10:19:16 AM

Quote from: Conurtrol on August 14, 2014, 10:05:28 AM

Here is another way of saying it:

100 Bitcoins were invested in the ICO at a price of .0002. At a price of .0001, 25bitcoins would buy half the QBK that exist. The remaining half of the QBK would receive dividends from 75 Bitcoins worth of investments. So 1.5 BTC per 1BTC invested. That is 50% more than the current 1BTC per 1BTC invested.

Any QBK that is on the exchange, that you are able to purchase, are not taking away from your dividends anyway. So your simple math, isn't so simple. It would not do anything for the shareholders, except remove BTC from the investment fund. There are 95000 Quibuck on poloniex that are not eligible for dividends at this time. Can your logical mind wrap your head around this very, very simple fact?

1. How much BTC would you like to be used to purchase QBK?

2. How high do you want to push the price up?

3. What would keep the price at the level it was pushed to?

4. How can you be sure that the higher price wouldn't trigger a dump from people who bought at <9000?

Are you saying that the Poloniex QBK won't be put in a wallet at some point to be eligible for dividends? Doubtful.

1. A max of 25BTC. This still leaves the devs 75 BTC to work with.
2. I think .0001 (half the ICO price) keeps it simple and highly profitable.
3. If 25 BTC gets dumped to us at .0001 then we should have a party. We will be getting 50% more dividends on our QBK forever. If people continue dumping (highly unlikely) then other people will recognize a great buying opportunity on a coin that just increased it's dividends to bagholders by 50%
4. We want people to dump to us at .0001 so this is not a consideration

candlesticks

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Quote from: Conurtrol on August 14, 2014, 10:05:28 AM

Here is another way of saying it:

100 Bitcoins were invested in the ICO at a price of .0002. At a price of .0001, 25bitcoins would buy half the QBK that exist. The remaining half of the QBK would receive dividends from 75 Bitcoins worth of investments. So 1.5 BTC per 1BTC invested. That is 50% more than the current 1BTC per 1BTC invested.

Any QBK that is on the exchange, that you are able to purchase, are not taking away from your dividends anyway. So your simple math, isn't so simple. It would not do anything for the shareholders, except remove BTC from the investment fund. There are 95000 Quibuck on poloniex that are not eligible for dividends at this time. Can your logical mind wrap your head around this very, very simple fact?

1. How much BTC would you like to be used to purchase QBK?

2. How high do you want to push the price up?

3. What would keep the price at the level it was pushed to?

4. How can you be sure that the higher price wouldn't trigger a dump from people who bought at <9000?

Conurtrol

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Quote from: TooDumbForBitcoin on August 14, 2014, 10:11:44 AM

Quote

At a price of .0001, 25bitcoins would buy half the QBK that exist

If they were on a shelf with price tags affixed, that is true.

If they are in the hands of 100 investors, each investor having their own requirements and logic, how can we know how many investors would sell at that price?

You're right, we can't possibly know what people will do. The dev seems worried that everyone will sell but that is highly unlikely. But we can put up a 25 BTC buy wall at .0001 and hope to hell that it gets dumped into. That would be the best possible thing that could happen. It's counter-intuitive but again, it only makes sense if we can buy at a cost so far below ICO price.

TooDumbForBitcoin

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Quote

At a price of .0001, 25bitcoins would buy half the QBK that exist

If they were on a shelf with price tags affixed, that is true.

If they are in the hands of 100 investors, each investor having his own requirements and logic, how can we know how many investors would sell at that price?

Conurtrol

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Here is another way of saying it:

100 Bitcoins were invested in the ICO at a price of .0002. At a price of .0001, 25bitcoins would buy half the QBK that exist. The remaining half of the QBK would receive dividends from 75 Bitcoins worth of investments. So 1.5 BTC per 1BTC invested. That is 50% more than the current 1BTC per 1BTC invested.

Conurtrol

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Quote from: TooDumbForBitcoin on August 14, 2014, 09:52:10 AM

Quote from: Conurtrol on August 14, 2014, 09:22:39 AM

To simplify things lets just say everyone has an equal amount of coins. Would you rather be

A. One of 100 people getting dividends from 100 Bitcoins

or

B. One of 50 people getting dividends from 75 Bitcoins

Choice B is obviously better. That is what would happen if you used 25 BTC to buy and burn at .0001

Please show why B. would happen and not

C. 99 people getting dividends from 75 Bitcoins
D. 75 people getting dividends from 75 Bitcoins

Thanks.

I simplified the problem by saying that everyone has an equal amount of coins. So 25 Bitcoins would buy out 50 people at .0001. Of course everyone has varying amounts of coins but the math works out the same in regards to ROI. All remaining bagholders will get 50% higher dividends than they would have previously gotten. This is simple math.

If it is simply a matter of proving the math is correct then can we get the devs to do some due diligence and investigate?

TooDumbForBitcoin

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Quote from: Conurtrol on August 14, 2014, 09:22:39 AM

To simplify things lets just say everyone has an equal amount of coins. Would you rather be

A. One of 100 people getting dividends from 100 Bitcoins

or

B. One of 50 people getting dividends from 75 Bitcoins

Choice B is obviously better. That is what would happen if you used 25 BTC to buy and burn at .0001

Please show why B. would happen and not

C. 99 people getting dividends from 75 Bitcoins
D. 75 people getting dividends from 75 Bitcoins

Thanks.

armin22

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Quote from: Conurtrol on August 14, 2014, 09:22:39 AM

To simplify things lets just say everyone has an equal amount of coins. Would you rather be

A. One of 100 people getting dividends from 100 Bitcoins

or

B. One of 50 people getting dividends from 75 Bitcoins

Choice B is obviously better. That is what would happen if you used 25 BTC to buy and burn at .0001

Choice B Please Cheesy

Conurtrol

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It would be 50% higher dividends for everyone, forever. That is a great opportunity if we can do it. It only makes sense because the price is so low right now.

Conurtrol

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To simplify things lets just say everyone has an equal amount of coins. Would you rather be

A. One of 100 people getting dividends from 100 Bitcoins

or

B. One of 50 people getting dividends from 75 Bitcoins

Choice B is obviously better. That is what would happen if you used 25 BTC to buy and burn at .0001

qiwoman2

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If we burned all the coins and there was only once coin left then we would have to make a new coin and change the staking system no? Also who would want a incy part of one coin? I thought those way too rare coins were not popular anymore..Just thinking allowed, I could

be wrong.

Teo91.v

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Quote from: qiwoman2 on August 14, 2014, 07:19:27 AM

Quote from: Teo91.v on August 14, 2014, 06:58:57 AM

Bounty??

I sent your address to Busoni to payout as he is processing them from the bounty account. We only had the payments unfrozen yesterday so just give Him time to do them, He must have been busy today.

Ok Thanks!!

qiwoman2

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Quote from: d34g13 on August 14, 2014, 01:21:33 AM

I brought up the idea of a buywall at 0.0001 and burning coins on page 30 ( https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8325205 )
and many have taken it up, because its so simple.

From the devs reactions i realise a few things:
- The devs dont want to invest the ICO money to increase the coins value (obviously) and there are several possible reasons for this:
   a) they would simply loose more control over the coin with a lower ICO fund (less to spend less to control)
   b) they would lower their own chances of paying themselve for whatever work they do - remember qiwoman talking of paying wages?
   c) they would simply have more Qibuck coins in their "own" ICO wallet and less BTC - i would probably prefer BTC as well
   d) buying and burning coins would just be giving btc to the ones currently holding or wanting to sell - which would probably hurt a) - c)

The question is, where value is flowing in and where its flowing out
- Value has flow in by investors buying and selling for losses, but that also destroyed the confidence alot - will see whichever force will be stronger
- and Value is flowing out for whatever the dev team is doing

Overall the dev team might really be trying hard as they say, but i doubt they will get something interesting up and running (feature wise)
early enough, before people loose interest or just switch to something else.
Having to spend BTC from the ICO just for compiling wallets really didnt encourage me there (either they had to hire someone to do it which would
mean the devs dont know how to do their stuff or they just tryed to get payouts - both versions dont sound well to me)

In the end the already lost value of investors might lead to a stable price (also that many just refuse to sell below a certain level - true bagholders so to say)
or maybe a slight price increase. But in the end this thing does not seem to be the next interesting/big story

Buy or sell? Well evaluate the chances for this coin to double its value compared to another coin (NOT depending on how much you lost so far!)
Im personally betting on other trains now - might be wrong - time will tell

Wages are just 2% of whatever is earned in the month. For the amount of hours we are putting in this project daily, at the moment I don't even believe it would pay us a minimum wage Yet in the early stages..

Also DEVS charge, whether we like it or not they charge us for every action of a technical nature, that's the way it is. If you think We are Stealing from the ICO coffers, you better verify the BC accounts with Busoni, thanks.

qiwoman2

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Quote from: Teo91.v on August 14, 2014, 06:58:57 AM

Bounty??

I sent your address to Busoni to payout as he is processing them from the bounty account. We only had the payments unfrozen yesterday so just give Him time to do them, He must have been busy today.

Topic: [ANN] QIBUCK COIN - X13 - POS/POBH - 1st Proof of Baghold and asset backed. - page 47. (Read 152955 times)