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Topic: [ANN] SuperNET NXT asset 12071612744977229797, SUPERNET KMD assetchain in summer - page 278. (Read 736808 times)

hero member
Activity: 980
Merit: 1001
14:00 GMT is suggested as the start time
any objections to this time?
not sure of date, just trying to find the best time of day

In amongst all the twitter spamming trying to pump rumours about Ethancoin joining the supernet, I spotted one from the nxtcommunity declaring 5th September as being the ICO date. Is this correct?

I mean, they have a countdown clock and everything!

Did I miss a post where you went from the above to deciding to ninja the launch?


previous page announced: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8679376
in about a day and 6 hours it will start

So the 6th of september 12:00 GMT right ?
I am bad with timezones, it is supposed to be 14:00 GMT on Saturday
can someone verify if http://www.nxtcommunity.org/ is showing the correct time?

It is currently 6:33 GMT.
+ 1day and 6:26 makes it 13:00 GMT tomorrow.

Or am i completely dumb ?
I didnt set up the clock. If we are sure it is wrong I have to get it fixed


Pretty sure it's wrong Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
This is probably a dumb question, but after the initial ICO phase wiill the supernet assets be tradeable through an exchange like polo or bittrex, or only through NXT based echanges / GUI?


poloniex is already trading JLH and they said they will trade UNITY
of course bter will also
and NXT AE
I dont know if bittrex is doing assets yet, but I imagine not long after UNITY is making some nice daily volumes and in the top 10 CMC, most exchanges will be trading it
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
This is probably a dumb question, but after the initial ICO phase wiill the supernet assets be tradeable through an exchange like polo or bittrex, or only through NXT based echanges / GUI?

legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
Only just joined this thread, I see there's a lot of reading to be caught up on.

As far as the BTC fundraising being completed on a centralised exchange, and with the sudden talk of legal compliance issues on polo, (no doubt compounded by pressure from certain altcoin holders that may be buttering busonis bread) wouldn't the best option be to use decentralized platform like counterparty in conjunction with token vending machine like http://www.vennd.io/ ?

Users would send to the BTC address and automatically be credited with proportional amount of tokens. The whole process would be auditable, and users would have ownership- retaining ability to back these up to paper wallets, transfer/trade them etc.

Example token: http://blockscan.com/assetInfo.aspx?q=SJCX

(Same process used for Swarm, storj etc)

Example of the process for buying an XCP token

http://betxcp.com/vennd
can they implement the linearly increasing 15% bonus, multiple currencies and also dynamically control the amount of TOKEN that is available?
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
I have to say shut up and take my bitcoin. Smiley
I trust JL777 and i think he is doing right thing!
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
14:00 GMT is suggested as the start time
any objections to this time?
not sure of date, just trying to find the best time of day

In amongst all the twitter spamming trying to pump rumours about Ethancoin joining the supernet, I spotted one from the nxtcommunity declaring 5th September as being the ICO date. Is this correct?

I mean, they have a countdown clock and everything!

Did I miss a post where you went from the above to deciding to ninja the launch?


previous page announced: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8679376
in about a day and 6 hours it will start

So the 6th of september 12:00 GMT right ?
I am bad with timezones, it is supposed to be 14:00 GMT on Saturday
can someone verify if http://www.nxtcommunity.org/ is showing the correct time?

It is currently 6:33 GMT.
+ 1day and 6:26 makes it 13:00 GMT tomorrow.

Or am i completely dumb ?
I didnt set up the clock. If we are sure it is wrong I have to get it fixed
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
...
For the past couple of days, we’ve been in discussions with our attorneys about hosting the SuperNet ICO. As several community members pointed out in this very thread, the sale of SuperNet tokens could be interpreted as the sale of unregistered securities. Our attorneys came to the same conclusion and have since advised us against taking part in the SuperNet ICO for this reason.
...

Why would you choose Poloniex to host the ICO and then refuse to provide your identification? That is a requirement that is displayed prominently regarding their ICOs. It seems odd.
I chose poloniex because they said they could do it, even with my requirement. The problems arose when the unregulated securities issue came up. There have already been threats made against me and I cannot jeopardize myself or my family over this. So I am not sure why poloniex is using that as the reason for the deal not happening. at first it was not an issue, then they tried to convince me, but I am not going to put my family in danger over money. We were set to go for Thursday. The fiat FUD post happened then their lawyers get involved and I hear nothing for over 2 days running past the day we were supposed to go live.

Anyway, if I had waited until they told me they couldnt do it due to SEC unregulated security issues, then not sure how my moving ahead with BTER is changing anything other than reducing the time lost.

James
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 520
14:00 GMT is suggested as the start time
any objections to this time?
not sure of date, just trying to find the best time of day

In amongst all the twitter spamming trying to pump rumours about Ethancoin joining the supernet, I spotted one from the nxtcommunity declaring 5th September as being the ICO date. Is this correct?

I mean, they have a countdown clock and everything!

Did I miss a post where you went from the above to deciding to ninja the launch?


previous page announced: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8679376
in about a day and 6 hours it will start

So the 6th of september 12:00 GMT right ?
I am bad with timezones, it is supposed to be 14:00 GMT on Saturday
can someone verify if http://www.nxtcommunity.org/ is showing the correct time?

It is currently 6:33 GMT.
+ 1day and 6:26 makes it 13:00 GMT tomorrow.

Or am i completely dumb ?
yes pet master u are right  Cheesy!

yes James time is incorrect ofc. as im posting it is Friday, 5. Sept 7:15 GMT
now add +24h 5h 45m mind you = 13:00 GMT Saturday

dunno how James can get this wrong as math math guru Smiley plz dont be like this with ipo funds LOL

~CfA~
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
i have to admite the amount of the IPO is out of my control but don't worry i wii still invest
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
Is there an estimate on how many tokens one should purchase for it to make any sense ?
I imagine if someone owns only a very small number his share of the fees will be very small so I'm wondering what kind of number makes sense.
Everybody will get the same ROI
so $5 or $5000 if the revenues are 5% of book value, then the return on $5 or $5000 is the same rate.
Realistically what I am expecting is a bit of a pop from the book value to the initial book value multiple. This will happen the moment it starts trading. will this be 1.25 or 1.5 or 2x or more? This depends on the overall size and expectations on the revenues.

I thin that up to a certain point, the more than comes in the more the ROI expectation, due to the larger user base creating a larger network effect. Of course if insane amounts come in so that the funds cannot be used effectively and are just sitting in escrow providing backing to the asset, then this becomes a solid anchor but will slow things down. Unless the amount is beyond crazy and we can end up buying already profitable real world companies and become a company acquisition fund. That could be fun too Smiley

So, back to the realistic amount that will be raised, I think we are not going to go past the crazy point where the additional capital is just anchoring us. I am usually able to fully utilize the resources available, not without mistakes, but fairly efficiently. So, after the initial price discovery of the book value multiple, then there will be two phases. Since the revenues are not coming out yet, there will be the "anticipation" phase where maybe some people are too optimistic and when the revenues start out slower than expectations, there will be some correction. This is if the multiple is going too high, maybe this is avoided if I am providing cautions. For BTCD, I am sometimes mentioning the price levels and trying to make sure it doesnt get ahead of itself. So far, it has been stairstepping up nicely and I hope this will also happen with SuperNET.

So when all the major revenue streams start kicking in and we are having half a dozen monetized casino games next year and the user base is growing and now finally we can go from a book value multiple to a PE (price earnings multiple) as the predominant value will be from the expected lifetime cashflows (discounted to present value).

Let us assume a 10000 BTC capitalization, this is a nice $5 mil amount. So, we know the asset backing is providing this $5 mil amount and maybe the investments and traders are boosting it slowly to $6, $7, ... But this is not for the impatient crypto investor. They want 20x on 10 BTC. Of course, we all like the BBR 10x in a week things, but the problem is size. You cant easily do that with 10000 BTC. Actually you cant do that difficultedly Smiley

So what sort of PE ratio is a fast growing tech company getting nowadays. Let me check
https://biz.yahoo.com/p/8peeu.html this shows some real world ratios
it seems div yield of 3% is a reasonable rate, so that means 30x the dividend amount is a ballpark market value. The dividend amount is at least 50% of overall revenues, so one valuation would be 15x revenues. Let us solve when this matches the book value. $5 mil / 15 = $333K/yr -> ~$900/day
I think we can assume 100,000 users so this means if we are generating one US penny per day per user, the dividend yield based valuation is matching the book value.
Of course this is just back to where we started. But I was working backward to find the "breakeven" point. At this point even with no book value at all the SuperNET would be worth this. Since it has the assets also, this would make its value 2x. Actually a bit more as having such a large book value adds stability and longevity.

If I am not making any errors in my assumptions, then for every penny per day in revenue SuperNET is generating per user, it will add the equivalent of its book value to the valuation. Here is where some people will go crazy. They will calculate the average amount they are trading, betting, etc. and realize they are spending $10 per day in crypto fees! They will then say that 1000x, so SuperNET will go 100x easy.

Where did that person make a mistake?

yes, the average of 100,000 is not going to be the hyperactive day trader, although in crypto it might no be so far from the median. The altcoin enthusiast is one of the most sought after demographic for advertisers. Yes, we cant forget the click advertising. This is a much more realistic way to genrate a penny or nickel per day per user. But this of course will take more time as we need to find the advertisers, etc.
So, let us go back to the $10/day subset. Is 1 in 100 users in the SuperNET that hyperactive day trader? I think so, maybe a bit more, but let us use this number, so now we have 1,000 * $10 = $10,000 / day, which is a 10x, so we get all crazy and pay up to 8x.

Where did that person make a mistake?

The SuperNET philosophy is to offer lower prices, so the $10 -> $5. Now we are getting to a more reasonable scenario. Keep in mind this is currently a fantasy, but over the next 6 months or so, more and more of this fantasy will become a reality and when the market is believing the initial small trickles of revenues will be growing to the 5 cents per user per day average, then the SuperNET is rightfully earning a 5x multiple.

So, I have some job openings. There wont be any pay until we get funding, but might as well starting the process of finding the right people.

We need a person to specialize in advertising, someone with contacts and experience to setup an automated ad sales management system so that advertisers can easily bid for the ad space within the SuperNET.

We also need someone to be doing the metrics. By analyzing where the money is coming from, you an usually double or triple revenues just by being smart about where the ads are placed, in what sequence, etc. Like how they put all the impulse items at the cash register, its not rocket science, but it is basically analyzing numbers from low level stats and figuring out how to get more revenue per user on average, without annoying them! No flashing, annoying garbage, the best monetization is when the user doesnt even notice.

I also think we need someone with financials experience to create investor reports on how the various portions of SuperNET are doing, from the supertraders, ad revenues, core assets, coin communities, etc.

We also need someone that is generating the stats. This is always requiring analyzing log files or in our case blockchains and getting the data that the analyst will need.

I think these four people are making a monetization group for SuperNET. And they will be able to literally double or triple the money coming in, so I think some sort of performance based revenue sharing compensation would make sense.

For those that are thinking, this SuperNET is sounding like some sort of high tech company that makes software and websites and gets commissions and ad revenues, well, yes that is kind of what I am doing. I do have a bit of experience with this sort of thing, so when I see the micro market caps for the crypto assets I get no temptation to sell any of them. Just look at the real world valuations for software companies and with the 10000 BTC and the infrastructure that is just about finished and all the coin communities, once we are getting real world valuations, then these days of 1.5x book value will be fond memories.

James

P.S. Are there any company valuation peoples?
sr. member
Activity: 284
Merit: 250
After careful deliberation, we have decided to not participate in the SuperNet ICO. I understand that a large community is excited about SuperNet, and since we were initially announced as the ICO host, I wanted to take a moment to explain how we came to arrive at this decision.
 
For the past couple of days, we’ve been in discussions with our attorneys about hosting the SuperNet ICO. As several community members pointed out in this very thread, the sale of SuperNet tokens could be interpreted as the sale of unregistered securities. Our attorneys came to the same conclusion and have since advised us against taking part in the SuperNet ICO for this reason.
 
Further, one of our ICO requirements is identity verification (https://www.poloniex.com/icoRequirements); this requirement exists to protect investors and to lend credibility to the ICO. Despite several attempts to convince James the importance of revealing his identity, we were ultimately unable to reach an agreement that satisfied both parties.
 
We needed time for due diligence, to carefully assess the legal implications of taking part in SuperNet, and also the time to set up our backend systems to support it. James was very eager to get this going, however, so he chose to go with another host before we could communicate to him our findings and final decision.
 
We have since communicated with James, and we wish him the best of luck.

Why would you choose Poloniex to host the ICO and then refuse to provide your identification? That is a requirement that is displayed prominently regarding their ICOs. It seems odd.
hero member
Activity: 695
Merit: 500
Only just joined this thread, I see there's a lot of reading to be caught up on.

As far as the BTC fundraising being completed on a centralised exchange, and with the sudden talk of legal compliance issues on polo, (no doubt compounded by pressure from certain altcoin holders that may be buttering busonis bread) wouldn't the best option be to use decentralized platform like counterparty in conjunction with token vending machine like http://www.vennd.io/ ?

Users would send to the BTC address and automatically be credited with proportional amount of tokens. The whole process would be auditable, and users would have ownership- retaining ability to back these up to paper wallets, transfer/trade them etc.

Example token: http://blockscan.com/assetInfo.aspx?q=SJCX

(Same process used for Swarm, storj etc)

Example of the process for buying an XCP token

http://betxcp.com/vennd



Some good ideas but it looks they are late to the party.  I use counterparty a lot and it's straight forward. I am not familiar with the NXT client yet, so will have to use Bter exchange for now, but at least they stepped in to save the day and are willing to work with other exchanges. Mind you haven't heard if any other non US exchanges have stepped in yet, and whether they can handle dividends/rewards. Anyway welcome to party.  Grin
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 504
Only just joined this thread, I see there's a lot of reading to be caught up on.

As far as the BTC fundraising being completed on a centralised exchange, and with the sudden talk of legal compliance issues on polo, (no doubt compounded by pressure from certain altcoin holders that may be buttering busonis bread) wouldn't the best option be to use decentralized platform like counterparty in conjunction with token vending machine like http://www.vennd.io/ ?

Users would send to the BTC address and automatically be credited with proportional amount of tokens. The whole process would be auditable, and users would have ownership- retaining ability to back these up to paper wallets, transfer/trade them etc.

Example token: http://blockscan.com/assetInfo.aspx?q=SJCX

(Same process used for Swarm, storj etc)

Example of the process for buying an XCP token

http://betxcp.com/vennd
hero member
Activity: 980
Merit: 1001
14:00 GMT is suggested as the start time
any objections to this time?
not sure of date, just trying to find the best time of day

In amongst all the twitter spamming trying to pump rumours about Ethancoin joining the supernet, I spotted one from the nxtcommunity declaring 5th September as being the ICO date. Is this correct?

I mean, they have a countdown clock and everything!

Did I miss a post where you went from the above to deciding to ninja the launch?


previous page announced: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8679376
in about a day and 6 hours it will start

So the 6th of september 12:00 GMT right ?
I am bad with timezones, it is supposed to be 14:00 GMT on Saturday
can someone verify if http://www.nxtcommunity.org/ is showing the correct time?

It is currently 6:33 GMT.
+ 1day and 6:26 makes it 13:00 GMT tomorrow.

Or am i completely dumb ?
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
14:00 GMT is suggested as the start time
any objections to this time?
not sure of date, just trying to find the best time of day

In amongst all the twitter spamming trying to pump rumours about Ethancoin joining the supernet, I spotted one from the nxtcommunity declaring 5th September as being the ICO date. Is this correct?

I mean, they have a countdown clock and everything!

Did I miss a post where you went from the above to deciding to ninja the launch?


previous page announced: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8679376
in about a day and 6 hours it will start

So the 6th of september 12:00 GMT right ?
I am bad with timezones, it is supposed to be 14:00 GMT on Saturday
can someone verify if http://www.nxtcommunity.org/ is showing the correct time?
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134

I'll give an example of an ICO that worked. It was called FOOD and it worked because
it started at 1 satoshi and only asked 10 BTC of investment. It rose upwards of 2000%
because of these low starting points. Of course it was just for fun but it did prove
an interesting point about ICOs. People's confidence at launch is inversely proportional to the amount
of BTC that is raised.

I know you think you cannot build what you want without serious investment but maybe you can
approach VCs for this amount of funding behind the scenes. Or possibly lower the amount or cap it.
I think asking people for 10,000 BTC to fund an experiment might be a lot to ask.

Many open source projects started with far less money and people joined these projects
with their time because they believed in them. Bitcoin was one of them.

I have been following BTCD since it started and been a occasional investor.

if only a small amount comes in, that is fine. I will just do this using primarily my funds
I did decently with the sharkfund0 that start with around 1500 BTC, so expecting 6x for something with a more robust plan does not seem unreasonable, but that's my opinion. If you are looking for some instant 20x return, then SuperNET is not for you.
You cannot compare SuperNET to any "air" based crypto that is not backed by anything. I think this is the difference that maybe you are not fully grasping.

Also, you really cant compare SuperNET to an open source software project. They are simply not comparable at all and for you to be thinking about SuperNET like this indicates you are not understanding the asset backed nature.

James

That is a fair response. You are right that open source should not be compared to an asset backed fund. Although the assets are Crypto Currencies which are all
still rather experimental and by some people's definitions "air" themselves. Not by my definition of course. But still something to contend with.

The example was not to make it out like I am wishing a 20x return but that a 10,000 BTC "target" is a big weight to put on people's psychology at launch.

I hope to see it do well. Many are watching quite eagerly.
All the best.

I guess my perspective is a bit warped. Over the last three months I have earned investors ~125 million NXT, which is around $4 mil = 8000 BTC and my cryptoworth is about half that, so for me 10000 BTC is not a "big weight" number, but I do realize it is a big number. I am somewhat good with numbers Smiley

anyway, I think I was asked the question about the expectations and so I just responded. Didnt mean to get you all weighed down worrying about it
hero member
Activity: 980
Merit: 1001
14:00 GMT is suggested as the start time
any objections to this time?
not sure of date, just trying to find the best time of day

In amongst all the twitter spamming trying to pump rumours about Ethancoin joining the supernet, I spotted one from the nxtcommunity declaring 5th September as being the ICO date. Is this correct?

I mean, they have a countdown clock and everything!

Did I miss a post where you went from the above to deciding to ninja the launch?


previous page announced: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8679376
in about a day and 6 hours it will start

So the 6th of september 12:00 GMT right ?
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
14:00 GMT is suggested as the start time
any objections to this time?
not sure of date, just trying to find the best time of day

In amongst all the twitter spamming trying to pump rumours about Ethancoin joining the supernet, I spotted one from the nxtcommunity declaring 5th September as being the ICO date. Is this correct?

I mean, they have a countdown clock and everything!

Did I miss a post where you went from the above to deciding to ninja the launch?


previous page announced: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8679376
in about a day and 6 hours it will start
hero member
Activity: 980
Merit: 1001
Is there an estimate on how many tokens one should purchase for it to make any sense ?
I imagine if someone owns only a very small number his share of the fees will be very small so I'm wondering what kind of number makes sense.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
Owner of Poloniex
After careful deliberation, we have decided to not participate in the SuperNet ICO. I understand that a large community is excited about SuperNet, and since we were initially announced as the ICO host, I wanted to take a moment to explain how we came to arrive at this decision.
 
For the past couple of days, we’ve been in discussions with our attorneys about hosting the SuperNet ICO. As several community members pointed out in this very thread, the sale of SuperNet tokens could be interpreted as the sale of unregistered securities. Our attorneys came to the same conclusion and have since advised us against taking part in the SuperNet ICO for this reason.
 
Further, one of our ICO requirements is identity verification (https://www.poloniex.com/icoRequirements); this requirement exists to protect investors and to lend credibility to the ICO. Despite several attempts to convince James the importance of revealing his identity, we were ultimately unable to reach an agreement that satisfied both parties.
 
We needed time for due diligence, to carefully assess the legal implications of taking part in SuperNet, and also the time to set up our backend systems to support it. James was very eager to get this going, however, so he chose to go with another host before we could communicate to him our findings and final decision.
 
We have since communicated with James, and we wish him the best of luck.
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