Topic: [ANN] Zcoin (XZC) - Implementing ZKP privacy without trusted setup - page 328. (Read 663307 times)

This link explains it somewhat: http://blog.zcoin.tech/zcoin-and-zcash/

Basically Zcoin trades off larger storage space on the blockchain in favour of faster compute times and lesser memory requirements on the client side.

For those interested in knowing how Zcoin's implementation of Zerocoin compares to other current anonymity solutions:

https://github.com/zcoinofficial/zcoin/wiki/How-does-Zcoin-compare-to-other-anonymity-methods%3F

If it's too easy, everybody will do it and it will be devalued.
That's how everything works: a balance is always found, given enough time.

Worse, why would they have the rows increase with every block?

Agreed with this. I think zcoin could exist along side zcash.

That seems like a weird statement coming from you. Most people can learn how to use AWS, but very few people can use them for free or quasi-free.

Dead on. I use a run-once script on creation that sets up the env and downloads needed shit from my website.

The thing that gets lost in all of this is mining SHOULD be hard, it's not easy to mine gold, why should crypto mining be the same? To me the more difficult to accomplish such a task, the more value it gives to it.

I work hard at my dayjob to accumulate extra funds to buy crypto, likewise why shouldn't a miner have to put in a little work to get their share as well?

Is price zcoin price rising since zcash launch is near or not?

That's what I meant, it's not Lyra2 or Lyra2v2, it's a weird ass version I guess that doesn't have mature CPU or GPU mining software out for. Obscurity? They don't plan on keeping it either, which makes it all the weirder.


You could do that with a normal algo if it's just a placeholder. There was no reason to make it a weird version of Lyra unless they wanted to keep it in the handful of peoples hands.

Lyra2 is a CPU algo, they could've used Cryptonote, m7m, yescrypt... There are other choices.

This goes back to the first point, why would you make it a CPU algo which is heavily dominated by botnets and AWS instances? A more uniform distribution would go to GPU miners. They could've just made it a ASIC algo like x11 or sha-256 and it would've accomplished the same thing.

There are plenty of GPU algos that are ASIC resistant and going round about to a handful of people getting the majority of the distribution, both of which you don't want. AWS users and botnets.

It's already hypothesized that the devs are dumping coins... What are also the chances they made this into a coin they could easily mine that others don't have much experience in on purpose? Just happened that this shitcoin got off the ground... somehow. They don't even have a timeline for their new 'real' algo, probably due to the amount of money they're making.


Oh yeah? So you think ASICs are good too? You want a bunch of coins going to a handful of people, right? And people will whine if they are making buttloads of money and don't think other people should too.

Here's a layman's explanation of how Zerocoin works:

https://github.com/zcoinofficial/zcoin/wiki/A-layman's-explanation-on-how-Zerocoin-works

wolf wolf, you aren't even donating to the pool, you slut 

just favours a different crowd; everyone will have a whinge if x mining method isn't within their grasp.

Yup.

Well a lot of these miners/botnets are dumping these mined coins on the exchanges which also allows distribution With the early stages of any coin, it is always a handful of people who benefit (those who figure out how to get a miner working for the coin and get in early enough).

The whole point of this weird Lyra version was to make it CPU limited until they figured out an ideal algo (which they thought would be MTP). You would think that CPU mined algos would be the best in ensuring a fair distribution but due to AWS and botnets, maybe GPU friendly algos are better. But making it GPU friendly does it make it less asic resistant? Granted, the algo right now is in urgent need of replacement and I know that the devs are currently deliberating their options and were actively soliciting opinions on slack.

Hi Shanem,

I have done a draft writeup for this

Most cryptocurrencies including Bitcoin rely on public ledgers where all transactions are public and the history of a coin can be traced from its inception. Some have tried to make it harder to do this by using coin mixers/tumblers but they involve trusting the mixer/tumbler in that they won't steal your money and that they aren't secretly recording how the coins are being mixed. Zerocoin technology allows the anonymization of coins that doesn't require you to put your trust in a mixer.

The easiest way to visualize Zerocoin tech is a huge jar where everyone who wants to anonymize their coins places their coins in the jar without revealing who they are and then at will, when they show the requisite proof that they did put coins in the jar, they are entitled to redeem any other person's coin in the jar that is of the same value thus the link between the coin that was put in the jar and the new coin she has taken out of the jar is broken. This is alike to having everyone put a quarter in the jar and have it sit there and when they want to spend their coin, they can then dip into the jar and pull out a quarter.

There are other anonymity solutions such as Monero's ring signatures or Dash's private send or Zcash's zerocash implementation. Each has their respective pros and cons.

With Zerocoin, some of its perceived advantages are:
a) Ability to choose whether to do a public or private transaction (which you can't do with Zcash or Monero) (some may see this as a weakness and prefer anonymity by default)
b) Very much less computationally intensive than Zcash to generate transactions so regular computers can still use Zcoin.
c) No need to place any trust in mixers or wait for it to be mixed (such as in Dash)
d) Possibly greater anonymity than Monero since Monero requires it to be 'mixed' with similar denominations transactions in the past so if your denomination is rather unique, it may stand out. However as time passes, this becomes less of a problem.
e) Based on very well reviewed cryptography compared to Zcash which is based on cutting edge tech. With Zcash, the sender, recipient and value are not revealed at all. From an anonymity standpoint this is great however if a bug is discovered and a hacker can secretly mint coins, this is very hard to detect! Total supply of Zcash cannot be determined.
f) Arguably less controversial 'parameter' generation than Zcash. Zcash relies on the initial secret being destroyed and they have figured out a way in which unless all participants collude to not destroy the secret, then the secret is destroyed. Zerocoin uses parameters generated from an a academic challenge (https://github.com/zcoinofficial/zcoin/wiki/Parameters-in-set-up-phase-for-Zerocoin-in-ZCoin)

There are also drawbacks to Zerocoin's implementation of course which is why all these solutions have a role:
a) Locked to fixed denominations 1, 25, 50, 100 for Zerocoin. Meaning you can only put fixed denominations in the jar.
b) When you choose to put a coin in the jar and immediately redeem a new coin, there might be some analysis that can guess that the person putting in and taking out is the same person.
c) Still computationally intensive compared to Monero

What i need to find out is also how does Zerocoin scale compared to Zcash/Monero and that would be an important question to answer.

So no one has issues with this coin being funneled into the mouths of a handful of people? Botnets and AWS, it's the same shit. Whole reason I've been bringing it up over the last couple weeks. Why would developers pick a random version of Lyra, even if there going to eventually switch?

You don't actually need to connect to them
Setup an automatic startup, also maybe some monitoring and automatic recovery scripts on one machine. Test everything works ok. Then clone it indefinitely, as much as your funds allow. Pretty simple actually, if you have access to cheap VPS power...

Curious. What method do you use to connect to such a large number of instances? I'm assuming you're sending identical commands to them all at once through an SSH client, but I also assume you didn't cut and paste 1000 different IP's into the SSH client to make the initial connections.

Following this thread over the past couple weeks has been a great learning experience when it comes to VPS mining techniques. Thanks to those who have shared experiences here. Those were just the threads I needed to pull in Google searches to get better set up for Zcash mining.