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Topic: [ANN] Zcoin (XZC) - Implementing ZKP privacy without trusted setup - page 328. (Read 663504 times)

full member
Activity: 136
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Here's a layman's explanation of how Zerocoin works:

https://github.com/zcoinofficial/zcoin/wiki/A-layman's-explanation-on-how-Zerocoin-works

Quote
Most cryptocurrencies including Bitcoin rely on public ledgers. This means that all transactions are public, and the history of a coin can be traced from its inception, and all the transactions that it has been involved in.

Although the ownership of addresses are not known, through advances in statistical analysis and other meta-data (such as IP, time, use of exchanges), researchers have managed to reasonably accurately tie ownership of addresses to a real life identity.

As the blockchain forms a permanent record, they can be endlessly analyzed and once the identity is revealed, all the history of the coin is also tied to the identity.

This can be problematic for example if someone used Bitcoin to do some illegal activity and that particular Bitcoin somehow ended up in your hands, you may be implicated just by virtue of being in possession of that Bitcoin. On the other hand, if you are company or merchant, obviously you don't want competitors to know your transactions. In this case with Bitcoin blockchain you cannot archived that.

Some have tried to make it harder to do this by using coin mixers/tumblers. However, this involves trusting that the mixer/tumbler will not steal your money and also is not secretly recording how the coins are being mixed.

Zerocoin technology, which Zcoin uses allows the anonymization of coins that doesn't require you to put your trust in a mixer.

The easiest way to visualize Zerocoin tech is a black box, where everyone who wants to anonymize their coins places their coins in it. When they are ready to spend the coin, they produce a proof that they did place coins in the box, but the proof does not state which coin they placed. The proof could refer to any of the millions of coins in the box, and nobody knows which coin the proof is referring to. The proof simply states that the creator of the proof has placed a coin in the box, without giving any specific information about which coin it is. When other people see this proof, they have no idea who created this proof but are mathematically convinced that it is a valid proof. If the proof is valid, the proof entitles the proof creator to create a new coin with no transaction history and not related to any of the coins in the box, provided that it is of the same value. This means there is no linkage between the deposit transaction into the box and the redemption transaction whereby a coin is taken from the box.

The innovative part of Zerocoin is how this proof is generated where although you deposited the money into the box (and this transaction is recorded in the blockchain), you are somehow able to prove that you deposited into the box, without revealing which 'deposit' transaction was originally yours, hence the term 'zero knowledge proof'.
hero member
Activity: 2548
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wolf wolf, you aren't even donating to the pool, you slut  Grin
hero member
Activity: 636
Merit: 516
just favours a different crowd; everyone will have a whinge if x mining method isn't within their grasp.
full member
Activity: 136
Merit: 100
So no one has issues with this coin being funneled into the mouths of a handful of people? Botnets and AWS, it's the same shit. Whole reason I've been bringing it up over the last couple weeks. Why would developers pick a random version of Lyra, even if there going to eventually switch?

Well a lot of these miners/botnets are dumping these mined coins on the exchanges which also allows distribution Cheesy With the early stages of any coin, it is always a handful of people who benefit (those who figure out how to get a miner working for the coin and get in early enough).

The whole point of this weird Lyra version was to make it CPU limited until they figured out an ideal algo (which they thought would be MTP). You would think that CPU mined algos would be the best in ensuring a fair distribution but due to AWS and botnets, maybe GPU friendly algos are better. But making it GPU friendly does it make it less asic resistant? Granted, the algo right now is in urgent need of replacement and I know that the devs are currently deliberating their options and were actively soliciting opinions on slack.
full member
Activity: 136
Merit: 100
I heard many people talking about this coin in this forum. What is the difference between this coin and other anon coins?
I am just a layman and don't understand all the technical jargons. If anyone can explain to me, I can decide for myself whether this coin is worth buying.

Hi Shanem,

I have done a draft writeup for this Cheesy

Most cryptocurrencies including Bitcoin rely on public ledgers where all transactions are public and the history of a coin can be traced from its inception. Some have tried to make it harder to do this by using coin mixers/tumblers but they involve trusting the mixer/tumbler in that they won't steal your money and that they aren't secretly recording how the coins are being mixed. Zerocoin technology allows the anonymization of coins that doesn't require you to put your trust in a mixer.

The easiest way to visualize Zerocoin tech is a huge jar where everyone who wants to anonymize their coins places their coins in the jar without revealing who they are and then at will, when they show the requisite proof that they did put coins in the jar, they are entitled to redeem any other person's coin in the jar that is of the same value thus the link between the coin that was put in the jar and the new coin she has taken out of the jar is broken. This is alike to having everyone put a quarter in the jar and have it sit there and when they want to spend their coin, they can then dip into the jar and pull out a quarter.

There are other anonymity solutions such as Monero's ring signatures or Dash's private send or Zcash's zerocash implementation. Each has their respective pros and cons.

With Zerocoin, some of its perceived advantages are:
a) Ability to choose whether to do a public or private transaction (which you can't do with Zcash or Monero) (some may see this as a weakness and prefer anonymity by default)
b) Very much less computationally intensive than Zcash to generate transactions so regular computers can still use Zcoin.
c) No need to place any trust in mixers or wait for it to be mixed (such as in Dash)
d) Possibly greater anonymity than Monero since Monero requires it to be 'mixed' with similar denominations transactions in the past so if your denomination is rather unique, it may stand out. However as time passes, this becomes less of a problem.
e) Based on very well reviewed cryptography compared to Zcash which is based on cutting edge tech. With Zcash, the sender, recipient and value are not revealed at all. From an anonymity standpoint this is great however if a bug is discovered and a hacker can secretly mint coins, this is very hard to detect! Total supply of Zcash cannot be determined.
f) Arguably less controversial 'parameter' generation than Zcash. Zcash relies on the initial secret being destroyed and they have figured out a way in which unless all participants collude to not destroy the secret, then the secret is destroyed. Zerocoin uses parameters generated from an a academic challenge (https://github.com/zcoinofficial/zcoin/wiki/Parameters-in-set-up-phase-for-Zerocoin-in-ZCoin)

There are also drawbacks to Zerocoin's implementation of course which is why all these solutions have a role:
a) Locked to fixed denominations 1, 25, 50, 100 for Zerocoin. Meaning you can only put fixed denominations in the jar.
b) When you choose to put a coin in the jar and immediately redeem a new coin, there might be some analysis that can guess that the person putting in and taking out is the same person.
c) Still computationally intensive compared to Monero

What i need to find out is also how does Zerocoin scale compared to Zcash/Monero and that would be an important question to answer.



legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1024
So no one has issues with this coin being funneled into the mouths of a handful of people? Botnets and AWS, it's the same shit. Whole reason I've been bringing it up over the last couple weeks. Why would developers pick a random version of Lyra, even if there going to eventually switch?
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1073
H/s is decreasing.......getting really tough to mine....plus price isn't helping either
I've got 1,560 8-cores on it atm.
ec2?
Yup.

Curious. What method do you use to connect to such a large number of instances? I'm assuming you're sending identical commands to them all at once through an SSH client, but I also assume you didn't cut and paste 1000 different IP's into the SSH client to make the initial connections.

Following this thread over the past couple weeks has been a great learning experience when it comes to VPS mining techniques. Thanks to those who have shared experiences here. Those were just the threads I needed to pull in Google searches to get better set up for Zcash mining.

You don't actually need to connect to them Smiley
Setup an automatic startup, also maybe some monitoring and automatic recovery scripts on one machine. Test everything works ok. Then clone it indefinitely, as much as your funds allow. Pretty simple actually, if you have access to cheap VPS power...
full member
Activity: 176
Merit: 100
H/s is decreasing.......getting really tough to mine....plus price isn't helping either
I've got 1,560 8-cores on it atm.
ec2?
Yup.

Curious. What method do you use to connect to such a large number of instances? I'm assuming you're sending identical commands to them all at once through an SSH client, but I also assume you didn't cut and paste 1000 different IP's into the SSH client to make the initial connections.

Following this thread over the past couple weeks has been a great learning experience when it comes to VPS mining techniques. Thanks to those who have shared experiences here. Those were just the threads I needed to pull in Google searches to get better set up for Zcash mining.
Vin
legendary
Activity: 1166
Merit: 1015
I hit a block after mining it for many days
tried to 'mint zerocoin', and 'spend zerocoin'
but the tx after 'spend zerocoin' sent to myself 1 zcoin  never get confirmed by the network
ideas please ?
Zerocoin spends are larger than regular transactions and don't get picked up as fast. Currently I think it's limited to 1 spend per block for pool performance reasons (devs want to upgrade that later I think). So the transaction will get confirmed, even if not right in the next block but a couple ones later.

Ask ocminer for details as he's the operator of the Suprnova pool which currently mines pretty much all blocks. Cheesy
Last time, my withdrawal from Bittrex, took about 14 hours to confirm.
I thought the wallet had a problem, so, for now, i leave them all in exchanges.

I only let some -fast use- coins in the exchanges to be able to sell/buy quick.
Around 10%

The other coins are in my wallet.

I have got a bad feeling lo leave a big amount (if i had) there.
Too may "inside" hackers out there.

Good luck!
sr. member
Activity: 352
Merit: 250
I hit a block after mining it for many days
tried to 'mint zerocoin', and 'spend zerocoin'
but the tx after 'spend zerocoin' sent to myself 1 zcoin  never get confirmed by the network
ideas please ?
Zerocoin spends are larger than regular transactions and don't get picked up as fast. Currently I think it's limited to 1 spend per block for pool performance reasons (devs want to upgrade that later I think). So the transaction will get confirmed, even if not right in the next block but a couple ones later.

Ask ocminer for details as he's the operator of the Suprnova pool which currently mines pretty much all blocks. Cheesy
Last time, my withdrawal from Bittrex, took about 14 hours to confirm.
I thought the wallet had a problem, so, for now, i leave them all in exchanges.
member
Activity: 117
Merit: 10
I hit a block after mining it for many days
tried to 'mint zerocoin', and 'spend zerocoin'
but the tx after 'spend zerocoin' sent to myself 1 zcoin  never get confirmed by the network
ideas please ?
Zerocoin spends are larger than regular transactions and don't get picked up as fast. Currently I think it's limited to 1 spend per block for pool performance reasons (devs want to upgrade that later I think). So the transaction will get confirmed, even if not right in the next block but a couple ones later.

Ask ocminer for details as he's the operator of the Suprnova pool which currently mines pretty much all blocks. Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
I hit a block after mining it for many days
tried to 'mint zerocoin', and 'spend zerocoin'
but the tx after 'spend zerocoin' sent to myself 1 zcoin  never get confirmed by the network
ideas please ?
hero member
Activity: 636
Merit: 516
interesting.. didn't realise the first 280 blocks were scrypt-n, old school..
one of the neatest algorithm swaps i've seen; and all in one clean commit!
member
Activity: 117
Merit: 10
Amounts are shown, but the trick is that minting/spending happens in standardized denominations: 1, 10, 25, 50 or 100. This means deanonymizing you via transaction amounts is impossible because everyone uses these exact denominations in the crucial mint/spend steps.
A cheap trick i must say...  Cheesy

If it's stupid but it works, it ain't stupid. Wink
member
Activity: 117
Merit: 10
Price should alredy be at 0.03 now, considering that after zcash launch zcoin will be forgotten.

zcash future are 0.24 each (120 usd each zcash).

Zcash is an LLC registered in the US, which unfortunately very much makes it vulnerable to pressure from FBI and other suits (in fact they could be subpoenad by the NSA just like Lavabit), and it has the toxic waste problem. Zcoin is... I don't know what it is, apparently no registered company at all, and it uses the RSA-2048 number for its crypto setup (as you can see right here), which has been publicly available for 25 years and means there is no possibility of toxic waste in the developers' hands.

Also the Zerocash protocol hides all amounts, which in theory allows an adversary to use an exploit to generate currency while remaining undetected forever, while in Zcoin amounts are public yet transactions are still private, as explained in my other post above.

In essence, Zcoin has its strengths exactly where Zcash has its weaknesses. Not saying Zcash sucks, it certainly is a cool project with an amazing dev team. But to think that Zcoin has no reason to exist when Zcash is out is just foolish.
sr. member
Activity: 352
Merit: 250
Amounts are shown, but the trick is that minting/spending happens in standardized denominations: 1, 10, 25, 50 or 100. This means deanonymizing you via transaction amounts is impossible because everyone uses these exact denominations in the crucial mint/spend steps.
A cheap trick i must say...  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 3248
Merit: 1070
H/s is decreasing.......getting really tough to mine....plus price isn't helping either

I've got 1,560 8-cores on it atm.

ec2?
member
Activity: 117
Merit: 10
I heard many people talking about this coin in this forum. What is the difference between this coin and other anon coins?
I am just a layman and don't understand all the technical jargons. If anyone can explain to me, I can decide for myself whether this coin is worth buying.

It's the first cryptocurrency to implement zero-knowledge proofs, based on the Zerocoin protocol by Matthew Green, which allows a coin's history to be completely erased.

Making private transaction with Zcoin involves a three-step process:

  • 1. "Mint" your Zcoin (XZC) into zerocoin (kind of comparable to a tumbler, except you don't need an external service and it's cryptographically secure with zero knowledge)
  • 2. "Spend", which turns the zerocoin back into XZC in a brand new address in your wallet
  • 3. Make a regular transaction with that XZC just like you would with Bitcoin etc – it will come from the new address, which can't be traced back to you.

Amounts are shown, but the trick is that minting/spending happens in standardized denominations: 1, 10, 25, 50 or 100. This means deanonymizing you via transaction amounts is impossible because everyone uses these exact denominations in the crucial mint/spend steps.
legendary
Activity: 1052
Merit: 1004
where from did you get those numbers ?

You don't have one of these?

hero member
Activity: 2548
Merit: 626
where from did you get those numbers ?
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