Topic: [ANN]Bitfrog–Truly Decentralized Autonomous Game Platform (with explainer video) - page 3. (Read 11376 times)

Thanks the dedicated development team, our development progress is ahead of schdedule, bitfrog is excited to announce that stage 1 donation will end at GMT 10:00, July 10. BFS Client beta release will be ready at GMT 10:00, July 12.
For those who is still considering, make up your mind NOW and don't miss this opportunity to get BFS. Stay tuned for the official announcement of BFS Client beta release!

Thanks invictus1 for your question.

This is a very good question. After playing poker for years, we see the necessity to solve this problem.  Existing centralised poker sites are also searching for solutions. We have been paying close attention to it.

There is a very good discussion here, you may be interested in taking a look at it:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2717599/defeating-a-poker-bot

There are different approaches for poker sites to detect and defeat bots, Captcha is one of them. After monitoring the playing patterns and playing time, suspicious activities can be spotted. Captcha input is required to continue playing. Despite the effort of poker sites, bots attempt to simulate human behaviours and the inconsistent and unpredictable behaviour of bots make it difficult to be detected.

As sophisticated bots are very difficult to detect, a possible solution will be a socialised setting. The open platform of bitfrog enable the public to monitor suspicious player statistics.  We strongly encourage the bitfrog community to start contributing to guarding our platform after the release of bitfrog poker. 

From our perspective, we believe poker is a skill game. Although bots may help beginners with mathematical skills, for ordinary poker players, the essence of poker is the skills and strategy required. We hope to build a platform for true poker lovers as such.

That's why our focus is put on advocating this decentralised platform to the public. We hope to establish a community to lead the improvement and enhancement of bitfrog, such as functionality and game rule.

Thanks again for your question. It inspires us to rethink the future development of poker.  We hope to have more professionals like you and CoinHoarder to join our discussion to spread the idea of bitfrog to the public.

How do you plan on dealing with bots?

http://newsbtc.com/2014/06/23/just-dice-doge-dice-get-betting-depositing-disabled/

After Canada’s announced the bitcoin as money policy, Just-Dice and Doge-Dice shut down their operation, a few fellows have sent us pm to esquire our platform! Let's discuss technical details and donation here to spread the voice of bitfrog!

Hi Chrithu, thank you for showing your appreciation. It is encouraging for you to find out the possibility of future development of bitfrog.io.

Basically, we agree that it is possible for the platform to compile turn-based game provided that it is fair and open to all participants. In other words, fair odds of winning and open source coding that anyone can audit it are prerequisites. In the current stage, we will focus on our first DAG - bitfrogPOKER because it can showcase the POC of DAG and mental poker.

As explained in FAQ#2, bitcoin subchain is a self-sustained "BTC blockchain" that is pegged to bitcoin blockchain. It is maintained and secured by BFS holders (a.k.a. bitfrogger). BTC is neither created nor mined in our subchain. When user credit BTC to dedicated BTC address in ordinary BTC blockchain, a mirror transaction will be created in BF's BTC subchain. Vice versa, when user deposit BTC to dedicated address in subchain, a mirror transaction will be broadcasted in BTC blockchain. So it is a two-way pegging between BTC blockchain and BF's BTC subchain. When player complete a round of game and win a certain amount of BTC, only a subchain transaction will take place, some transaction fee can be hunted by bitfroggers in subchain block. There is no immediate BTC transaction on BTC blockchain until user want to "withdraw" BTC from BF's BTC subchain.

To response your questions:
1) What about users who hop on after release?
BFS distributed in stage 1 donation will be reflected on genesis of BFS beta release. Subsequent stages of donation will keep going and donators are still able to acquire BFS.

2) Will they be able to collect fees as well?
Yes for sure. Same amount of BFS means the same opportunity to hunt BTC transaction fee.

3) Will there be a block reward like in Bitcoin that steadily creates more BFS as the platform is used?
No brand new BFS will be mined after genesis creation. Reward will be BFS transaction fee, bitfrogger will maintain BFS blockchain and also BTC subchain, they will be rewarded by BFT transaction fee and BTC transaction fee respectively.

4) How will BFS translate into Bitcoin? Will there be a fixed rate?
There is no direct exchange between BTC and BFS. BFS is only a share instead of a currency. The value of BFS will be derived by the market perception of how well it can hunt for transaction fee, it is similar to stock value is derived by market perception of how well the stock can generate revenue and profit. Exchange is not needed on bitfrog platform because all players can play game in bitfrog platfrom without any BFS holding.

We are pleased to see someone like you not in a position of donation but keep the eye on our projects. We sincerely hope that you can keep commenting and help us spread out our message by sharing our video and post to increase our exposure. .

This is a very nice idea.

I am not a Poker fan myself, but I can easily see this being applied to all kinds of competitive turn-based games.

I got some question though:

If I understood everything correct your system is planned to mimic Bitcoin so that the Bitfrog client at the same time is used to play the games you take part in and to verify the games/game moves of others.

A verified game move equates to a transaction in Bitcoin and comes with a fee paid in BFS that the verifying party can collect based on Proof of Stake. So anyone that donates basically will have a stake to start with.

But what about the users that hop on after release? Will they be able to collect fees as well?
Will there be a block reward like in Bitcoin that steadily creates more BFS as the platform is used?
How will BFS translate into Bitcoin? Will there be a fixed rate?

Anyhow I wish you the best of luck. I am not in a position to donate but I will happily test Bitfrog when it's done.

Thanks Miffman for your support! It means a lot to us! We hope we can reach out to more people like you, please support us by:
1. Donation - Supprt and fund our project. You may find the details of donation plan in our official website www.bitfrog.io/#donation .
Donation address:
1frogRHNoxGXYuYUzWnMrdcDiQgGdmQm5
2. Share your view - Every comment counts in making bitfrog a better platform, shape it the way you want!
3. Share bitfrog video to your friends on facebook or twitter - More followers means more successful decentralization.
Our facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bitfrogio/764314533590827
Our twitter : https://twitter.com/bitfrogio
4. Join our team -  We are now recruiting poker lovers with professional PR background to join the team. He/ She will be assisting us in public communication in different media and channels. If you are interested, please shoot us a pm. Personal details is not required but it would be nice if you can enclose your resume and share your thought about bitfrog in the message.
5. Follow us in facebook, twitter - get the latest bitfrog information.

I understand your wish to remain anonymous if you plan to serve the US gambling market due to their strict regulations. I just caution everyone not to invest more than you can afford to lose. If you look at the amounts of money some of the other Dapps/Dcorps are raising, it is small in comparison to yours. It is not because you have a bad idea.. infact you have a very good idea. However, most of the other projects people have revealed their identities to get people to trust them with the BTC.

Good luck on forming a good team to get this done. It could prove very lucrative if you were quick to market and could figure out the technical issues. Consider signing the payment address with a PGP signature to prevent man in the middle attacks. People will quote the OP and change the payment addresses to their own, possibly causing someone to send in money to the wrong address. I have seen someone lose 50 BTC before because of this.

This seems like a really great idea! I really hope this catches on. We are another step coser to decentralization!

Congrats devs 

Thanks paythrough_team for raising your concern. As a matter of fact, we are not innovating new game or game rule, instead, more accurately; we are inspired by the invention of bitcoin and we aim at reforming the way gamers play online skill game. On our platform, gamers can reach other gamers around the world without the need of the single trusted third party (game host). You can find more information on our video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-RmgOFvNII.

Thanks marechoux for your question. In our understanding, what you mean by ‘coins owner’ should be ‘bitfrogshare(BFS) holder’, and it is true that more BFS you own the higher chance for you to acquire transaction fee. For question regarding donation, and bitfrog's projects for other altcoin, please kindly refer to FAQ #6 and FAQ#8 respectively.

The problem of Mental Poker is fascinating to me. I am the guy over at 2p2 that recently bumped the old decentralized poker thread and got it going again. I'm glad that several projects have popped up since then, as I feel like this is a "killer app" for cryptos if done correctly. I'm not sure if some or none of these projects got started because of the attention I brought to the subject, but that was my intention and it happened nonetheless, so I am happy about that.

I am worried how fast the new projects have got started and are already collecting funds, because I feel like Mental Poker is possibly not sufficiently solved quite yet. Yes, you can play a game of Mental Poker, and you can prove the validity of the shuffle, deal, and actions. However, I have deep concerns about the efficiency of the Mental Poker Framework to provide a fluid real-time game of poker like people are used to on centralized sites.

I direct you to Sergio Lerner's patent to learn more about the MPF. He spent years researching, developing, and experimenting with Mental Poker and I consider him to be the utmost expert on the subject (or at least the most knowledgeable person on the subject that I know of). I will cite a simulation he did with different MPF protocols and the time it took to verify the results. Although he improved on efficiency of prior protocols, it still seems rather slow. You may see the patent here: https://www.google.com/patents/US20110202766?dq=sergio+lerner&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vv6gU9a4GdSuyASNxoDQBA&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAw


Sorry that it jumbled up when I copy and pasted it.. refer to the link I provided.

As you can see the most efficient MPF protocol (that I can find) takes 14.64 seconds to shuffle and, more worrisome, it takes 27.6 seconds for a showdown. Obviously this slow of a speed would greatly hinder the game flow of a hand of poker. Consumers will not want to wait 30 seconds after each hand to find out who wins if it goes to showdown, or 14.64 seconds to shuffle.

Have you thought of this problem? If so, how do you plan to improve upon it so that the MPF could provide a playable game in real time, with a normal game flow that online poker players are used to?

Secondly, collusion is another big problem with decentralized poker networks. How do you plan to combat against it? Obviously playing heads up games, "fast fold" (Rush) poker, and multi table tournaments only would pretty much solve the problem of collusion. However, I feel that is only a half-assed solution and I would like to see something better than that come along where people can play full/6max ring games and single table tournaments. Providing heads up games and multi table tournaments only serves a portion of the games available on centralized poker networks and I'm afraid if this is not solved this will not be the "killer app" that I think it may be.

I feel it is important these questions be asked and answered before more funds are raised and you possibly realize that what you plan to do is not really practical competition to current centralized poker sites due to the complications. I am not trying to cause you harm, I support your project and am very interested. I want to see you succeed, and this is why I'm asking these questions.

Thanks for your time,

Ch

Bitfrog,without innovation, the equivalent of gambling games.

This is an idea prettty interesting.

So if I get everything, there is some fees when you play a game and theses fees are shared among coin's owner, the more coin you have the more share of the fees you get.

For the donation part if I give coins whenever during the stage 1 I will get the same amount of coin right?
So I can wait until the last day of stage 1 to do a donation that won't change anything?

You say your platform will accept bitcoin first then other currencies, but you pay the donators on bitcoin only because you have only their bitcoin wallet adress. So you will convert all profits from other currencies in bitcoin?

Thanks and good luck for the project

thanks. hope it can be platform for different games.
I think every gaming/gambling site using the same way but didnt treat that as a service for the gamer - so the service has to offer more game options

Thanks CoolBliss for your feedback. We value all your comment and continue to seek for room for improvement. Could you please specially point out how could we improve our promotion material? For your question of bitfrogshare, please refer to FAQ 2 for know more about the concept and technology we adopted.

Thanks HostFat, we really understand your concern. We suggest you to join the donation at stage 4. For more information, please refer to FAQ 3.