Topic: [ANN][BRK] Breakout Coin | Sale June 13 2016 | Multicurrencies | Smart Contracts - page 85. (Read 243361 times)

Truly crazy place became this Bitcointalk forum, and I am not comfortable with these money collection ICOs at all.

Kuriso, there has already been significant money invested in the gaming project.  1,000btc is not a a hard number, it is a number that we feel suitable to make sure we can launch a product properly.  If we fall short of that number, but in a reasonable range, the founders and original investors will contribute additional funds to make it work.  If we fall way short of that amount, to where we feel it may not be beneficial to add additional funds, then yes, all btc refunded.

Either way, we plan on the project continuing through various other funding avenues that are available to us.  The "crowd sale" model is the most attractive to us for obvious reasons.  This will allow crypto coin buyers to get in on the ground floor of a coin that will be used by an International Gaming company.  

Please keep in mind, the "crowd sale" buyers will receive Bergstake, which so far has been totally undervalued on this forum.  The Bergstake is potentially worth far, far more than the actual BRO Coins you purchasing.  As our user base grows over the next two years, so will the demand for BRO.  Only Bergstake owners will have the right to "virtual mine" all future BRO.  This will be the only time that you will be able to purchase of BRO at any time.

The 7 million coin giveaway will be disbursed in small increments with play-through requirements.  The giveaway is designed not to disperse large amounts, but to attract the widest and largest group possible to gain mass registration.  In addition, we have been in deep discussion over the Bergstake attached to the 7 million giveaway.  We are contemplating burning those Bergstake in order to avoid dilution of the Bergstake shares. We have also been discussing the possibility of giving those Bergstakes to charities that support crypto currencies, such as the Bitcoin Foundation, etc..

Disclaimer: Breakout Coin and Breakout Gaming are two separate services/entities.  Breakout Coin is offering BRO coins for btc. By participating in this "coin sale," you are not purchasing interest in Breakout Gaming.  You are solely participating in the "coin sale" of a crypto coin that happens to have a gaming company that supports the BRO coin by having their chips denominated in the BRO crypto coin.

As specified in the first paragraph in the Terms and Conditions:

WARNING:  Do not purchase BRO if you are not an expert in crypto tokens or currency and blockchain technology.

This coin sale is not an offer of investment or securities in any business, venture, or company, or in any form of gaming operations or activity; purchase of BRO does not entitle the buyer to any interest in any profits or revenue of any common enterprise arising from the activities of others.

Also, there are several very important questions that need to be answered.  I double checked and hadn't seen the answer for these.  I am blind sometimes so I'm sorry if I missed the answers.

What happens if the 1,000btc ICO isn't reached?  Will the project continue?  Will we be refunded?

Ahh yes! Damnit!  I had 4.5 million in my head from the ICO.  I looked that those numbers several times before I posted and didn't catch the mistake.  I corrected it above. 

I think the numbers will be the same no matter how much fiat or bitcoin is used to buy bro.  If you put 10 BRO in, you can only take 10 BRO out.  If you put 10,000,000 BRO in you can only take 10,000,000 BRO out.  What will be left to see is if 10,000,000 BRO are put in and only 5,000,000 taken out.  This kind of imbalance will definitely cause heavy buy support.  At some point though the other 5,000,000 will need to come out and hopefully buy support can keep things off balance. 

Gamers will need to cash-out winnings.  Will we have the option to cash-out in fiat, bitcoins, litcoins, or other crypto within the gaming platform?  Or will this be on the open exchange?

Hi Kuriso,

Thanks for all your input and your interest in the project.

First thing I'd like to point out, is that 7m coins across two years is not 4.5 million a year.  So your final numbers are off.

2nd, your examples of players cashing in and out is definitely possible for small cash transactions but I think the majority of players, and definitely the higher limit players, will be keeping chip balances or cashing out in crypto.  In fact, I believe we will be introducing a lot of people to the advantages of crypto transactions over fiat. Whether players will prefer to hold BRO, btc, ltc, any other coin or fiat will be up to them.

This will result in:

1) Liquidity for BRO
2) Market cap of cryptos increasing in general

Dafuq are you talking about ?, people here have no fuckin skill in finance. It could be very interesting for futur investors to know how much devs already put in there project. It could bring confidence. Devs said they put lot of money in this, is it real? If they have nothing to hide, they can say this no problem there. I challenge you to find investors to give you money for a project without asking you how much you have already put in !!

Why ask "how much btc your team invested in the project so far ? Can we have more details about these investments ? ( how much ?, where it goes ?, who invested what?)..."?

If Breakout (or anyone offering a service, product or item) spent X, maybe they could have bought the same (or made it) for .5X, or ineffectively for 1.8X, using some other method. Pursuing details about that is an utter distraction.

The important questions and issues for the upcoming ICO, are about the technical attributes of the coin and the likely viability of it in the market.  Basically, will BRO be solid and useful relative to other cryptocoins and currencies? There are plenty of questions and answers addressing those points that help our evaluation of BRO.

For instance, through the ICO, one gets the coin and Bergstake enabling future virtual mining for that acquirer only.  That is unique and a potential source of value not available in any other coin.  If one is sincere about assessing the value of getting BRO in the ICO, there is much in the forum and in the Announcement on that. 

Regarding the commitment and strength of the promotion of the coin's usage, look at the first-class design and development groups in the Announcement, the top celebrities involved, and the sample webpages.  Do you really think the groups in the core team would associate themselves with fake mock-ups, for instance?

Questions, suggestions, and feedback that help us all to evaluate (and improve) BRO are valuable.  That's what I and hopefully others read this forum for.

True but Ether ICO went way over board.  The Ether market cap and cost per coin will be way too high.  Coins will be sold well under the ICO value.

I guess where it stands now, if the ICO is 1000-1500 btc, I'm probably in.  I'll be waiting till the end.  I said 500 in an earlier post but after looking at the details more and talking with you'll, I think 1000-1500 is a better range.

It's always good to have different views...  Glad to have you here!

there is nothing new here. as a single investor you want as many coins as possible for the least amount of BTC, and as the seller they want as many BTCs as possible. this is the nature of an ICO. this is how ethereum and many other did it. nothing new.

Yes, fiat will provide buy support but you also have people cashing out.  Will these actions equal out?  Will more people buy-in than cash-out?  I dont know the answer to this.  You might could find some stats from real life casinos or other online gaming sites but its hard to say what the balance will be.  

I buy $100 in BRO with fiat.  I play craps and I lose it.  The house now has my $100.  Will those coins go to market?  Will they be dumped on buy orders or placed for sell?

I buy $100 in BRO with fiat.  I play poker and I lose it.  A player now has my $100.  He could cash out that $100 or he could continue to play.  If he cashes it out, he cancels my $100 buy support.  The 2 transactions basically cancel themselves.

I buy $100 in BRO with fiat.  I play craps and win $200 from the house.  I now cash-out my $200.  I cancel out my $100 buy support and add $100 sell pressure to the market.


Yes, I know the give-a-way coins will be spread over 2 years but that's still 3.5 million a year.  WOW i just did the math...

That's 9589 coins a day!!!  An average of 9589 coins per day for give-a-way if the devs keep that schedule.  This is basically equal to the PoW coins each day.

edited for my mistake

I can understand how collecting 7 to 15 thousand BTC would enable you to do a lot for the coin but that is not a realistic goal for only 4.5 million coins in the ICO.  What happens if the 1,000btc ICO isn't reached?  Will the project continue?  Will we be refunded?


Yes, if the ICO was capped, each participant's piece would still be proportional to the BTC they put in but the concern is not necessarily limiting the amount of the pie each person gets but the cost of each piece of the pie.  Does that make sense?

If I invest 1btc into BRO and the total ICO is 1,000btc, my share of the pie is 4500bro @ 22,000 sats +/- each (2btc +/- per day to eat up PoW coins) 14 million premine makes a 3,080btc market cap

If I invest 1btc into BRO and the total ICO is 5,000btc, my share of the pie is 900bro @ 110,000 sats +/- each (10btc +/- per day to eat up PoW coins) 14 million premine makes a 15,400btc market cap

If I invest 1btc into BRO and the total ICO is 7,000btc, my share of the pie is 642bro @ 155,000 sats +/- each (14btc +/- per day to eat up PoW coins) 14 million premine makes a 21,700btc market cap

If I invest 1btc into BRO and the total ICO is 10,000btc, my share of the pie is 450bro @ 220,000 sats +/- each (20btc +/- per day to eat up PoW coins) 14 million premine makes a 30,800btc market cap

As you can see from the above examples, my 1 bitcoin investment is worth less BRO but worth more per bitcoin as the ICO increases.  This is the problem.  In green, the cost per day to eat PoW coins increases as well.  None of the cost per day factors in the give-a-way coins or the coins that the devs cash in to pay for stuff.

It doesn't matter if 100 people or 5000 people invested in the ICO to raise these funds.  What matters is the total amount of BTC raised divided by the number of coins.  This determines the potential market cap and creates a break even point that must be maintained so that investors do not lose out.  The problem with the uncapped ICO is we have no idea where the price falls.  The more people that invest dilutes the amount of BRO per btc and raises the cost per coin.  Using part of the 2.5 million held by the devs can help offset this increase as more investors jump in.

An uncapped ICO is still do-able if additional coins are added to the 4.5 million BRO.  It needs to be significant amounts.

I posted at the pre-ann before, and still find this to be a very interesting project.

My earlier concern remains, which is that bergstake is only triggered 2 years into the future. As a potential investor, I see bergstake as being a big plus, however, 2 years is an inordinate amount of time for that investment to bear fruit. Given any final ICO numbers and exchange rate after launch, bergstake would ensure 'some' returns for ICO buyers, as long as the 'berg'staking time frame was more reasonable.

See, after launch, even if someone was dumping below ICO price, investors would still have bergstake to their advantage. Just that 2 years down the line is way too much. I figure that the maximum I could entertain would be a 6 months PoW duration (by which time I'm assuming that the gaming platform would be in full swing).

Cheers & good luck!

Can you please give us proof of how much btc your team invested in the project so far ? Can we have more details about these investments ? ( how much ?, where it goes ?, who invested what?). Seriously, i dont want to make free FUD, but just cant believe what you are saying because we havent details. I agree that if you have invested 100 btc in the project, you should have possibility to recover these btc. But, im not sure you have already or will invest like 1500 btc. If you want a wage, it need to be reasonable. We are talking of millions dollars here, its huge for something that not really exist so far.

Kuriso,

People will buy coins to play games after the Coin Sale, even people who know nothing about crypto currency.  For instance, when a player uses a fiat processor and buys $100 in chips to play Fantasy Football, those chips are denominated in Breakout Coins.  In order to have a full reserve reserve for chips in play, we will go out into the open market and buy BRO to cover the $100 purchase.  There will be continued daily support for BRO from the gamers.

The 7m giveaway coins will be used to acquire these players gradually over 2 years.

this is just pure FUD, devs investing their own ICO is the biggest scam and worst thing any investor would want. all we would be doing is paying ourselfs BTC, while in the process diluting everyone elses share of ico.

think the best idea would be to add .5 million coins to ico for each 1000 coins raised. so instead of new investors diluting the total, new investors will be growing the total.

Here is the answer to how much bitcoin is needed and how it will be used.  We need a minimum of 1000 BTC.  That would keep the coin going with adequate support.  A total collection of 7 to 15 thousand BTC would enable our planned delivery of 1) strong coin development and 2) demand growth by stimulating use and liquidity of BRO.  The more BTC collected in the ICO, the more the demand for the BRO will be reinforced by global marketing and coin refinements that keep it on the leading edge. Marketing and development funds will be spent in the best ways for BRO, as described in the offering, and have no logical upper bound.

That's well and good, as it would improve the likelihood that BRO's price would steadily rise as more people learn of and use the coin, and thus provides an unprecedented advantage to this coin. But as more BTC are collected, wouldn't the proportion of the 4.5m BRO each participant receives in the ICO be diminished? So, shouldn't participants be protected from such apparent dilution by a cap on the maximum BTC accepted?

If the ICO was a pie with a size limited by a cap, then each participant's piece would still be proportional to the BTC they put in -- except the size of the pie would be arbitrarily limited.  Since, as noted above, there is no logical upper bound on the amount that the coin can be promoted and kept on the leading edge, it would be counter-productive to specify a limit, for every ICO participant and future holder of BRO.  That would only constrain the benefit to them from higher potential appreciation and stability of BRO. A bigger ICO means a stronger BRO. And, if the value of the ICO pie is bigger and the piece for a participant is proportionately smaller, the value of the participant's position remains the same -- whatever he or she chooses to put in. However, the BRO everyone holds from a bigger ICO would be bolstered for the future.

Ive already said before, but this is the most greedy devs ive ever seen. If you are so confident about the project, you should buy a big amount of BRO in the ICO so you will be able to make the cash ( and lot more) you already invest in the project. You want to get paid like 2-3 millions us dollars to build this project. Seriously, could be nice in your dream but we are in reality here. I propose you 2 things:

1. You cap the ICO with a reasonable price;

2. You sell every premine coins in the ICO and keep little amount for giveaway (like 500k). After that, dyou (devs) invest Massively in the ICO so you can be rich. Anyway, when we read you, there is no possibility that the coin value drop after ICO.

Hello everyone, thank you for your recent comments.  We are actively looking for ways to reward potential Coin Sale participants and will post our decision on this thread.
 
We do want to make a clear distinction as to where the 2.5 million coins are going.  This project differs vastly from other crypto related projects.  Typically with most "coins sales," a development team will show their community a whitepaper or a detailed plan of action and reach out to the community to fund their ideas.  Breakout will have over 40 members that invested "SIGNIFICANT" fiat capital or sweat equity into the project already.  These 2.5 million BRO coins are not being "given" to the investors, in actuality they have "bought" into the BRO coins.  This gaming project has been funded for almost a year now and the amount of talent and resources that have been poured into the project already is tremendous.  The amount of capital that has been poured into the gaming project gives all the investors of the "crowd sale" an opportunity to participate in the success of BRO that Breakout Gaming will use and support.  There has been significant money invested already into the gaming project that allows you to benefit from day one.  

To be clear, the entire team believes in the future of cryptocurrency and gaming.  We are dedicated to make this project a success.  Cutting edge poker, casino, Fantasy games software is a huge resource sink.  Design, security, licensing, marketing, etc.. all these have been paid for almost a year now.  The management team we assembled is superb and each is contributing with the hopes that BRO will be a success.

The marketing pros that will be supporting your BRO and Breakout Gaming have all forgone cash compensation and betting on the success of BRO and Breakout Gaming.  Some of these pros at Pokerstars earned over million dollar paydays for their marketing efforts.  The entire Breakout Team have accepted nothing but "computer code" and the dream that Breakout Gaming can advance the marriage of crypto and gaming.  

The 7 million giveaway will be exclusively used for marketing and player acquisition.  There is a misconception that these coins will dilute your BRO value.  Nothing can be further from the truth.  The coins will be used for freerolls and bonuses and referrals.  Once these gamers start playing on our site, there will be a realistic conversion ratio to "live" money players.  These players will be buying into BRO with "fiat" capital. These gamers will be supplying liquidity and demand for BRO.  The "more" players we can convert the more demand and liquidity there will be for your BRO coin and the more valuable your Bergstake will be.  You should want Breakout Gaming to grow our player base as large as possible.  These 7 million giveaways coins gives us the opportunity to attract new players all over the world and provide increasing demand for BRO.  Our goal is to have 750,000 registered use by the end of year two.

If we can grow our user base to over a million quickly, the demand and liquidity for BRO and Bergstake can grow at a rapid pace.  The entire team is dedicated to make this happen.  


Disclaimer: Breakout Coin and Breakout Gaming are two separate services/entities.  Breakout Coin is offering BRO coins for btc. By participating in this "coin sale," you are not purchasing interest in Breakout Gaming.  You are solely participating in the "coin sale" of a crypto coin that happens to have a gaming company that supports the BRO coin by having their chips denominated in the BRO crypto coin.

As specified in the first paragraph in the Terms and Conditions:

WARNING:  Do not purchase BRO if you are not an expert in crypto tokens or currency and blockchain technology.

This coin sale is not an offer of investment or securities in any business, venture, or company, or in any form of gaming operations or activity; purchase of BRO does not entitle the buyer to any interest in any profits or revenue of any common enterprise arising from the activities of others.

 

I respect your opinions, I really do. However in my opinion there needs to be a lot of BRO coin to be floating around for in-game currency for people that actually want to play the platform. If this is a player in which I have seen other players use e-sports it will be a mutli-million dollar franchise. To be honest, I really don't think we are getting screwed in any way shape or form. If we were to grab all the coins in the initial ICO we would effectively be holding the entire in-game system to ransom. As much as I would love that - because I would charge them a lot to play poker, it wouldn't be fair

Secondly, apologies BRO Coin for seeming to be the only one backing you here, and that my negative trust could be a stain on your reputation. If you would like to refer to my profile you can see that my negative trust was generated from being a "newbie asking for a loan" - in my defence I would also like to say that I am currently paying said loan (which I received in the end) 3 weeks early.