Author

Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 1558. (Read 9723858 times)

legendary
Activity: 3444
Merit: 1061
Well, duh, of course it was CPU-only at the start. I'm asking if the intent was to make it easier on GPUs than Quark.

I think he just did it his own way, as he didn't know about Quark, which is the impression I got long ago when I asked - don't ask me to find proof, I'll not waste my time.  Just giving you an answer if you're interested.

I suppose it's possible. Meh, hardly matters, I suppose. I just want to know his intentions for the PoW - what qualities he wanted it to have.

I think Evan should chime in..that is the best answer

even at https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/display/DOC/X11 Created by Balazs Kiraly, last modified on Jun 01, 2015
_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________
the author said:

It was probably inspired by the chained-hashing approach of Quark, adding further “depth” and complexity by increasing the number of hashes, yet it differs from Quark in that the rounds of hashes are determined a priori instead of having some hashes being randomly picked.

The X11 algorithm uses multiple rounds of 11 different hashes (blake, bmw, groestl, jh, keccak, skein, luffa, cubehash, shavite, simd, echo), thus making it one of the safest and more sophisticated cryptographic hashes in use by modern cryptocurrencies.

The name X11 is not related to the open source GUI server that provides a graphical interface to unix/linux users.


Balanced CPU/GPU mining

When Darkcoin was initially launched with X11, it was only mineable through CPU mining programs. After a spike in the Darkcoin network hashrate in early February 2014, it was speculated that someone might have made a GPU miner and thus a bounty of over 3000 DRKs was given in order to assist in the creation of a GPU miner client that could be publicly available, for fairness reasons.

By mid-February the GPU client was launched and by late-February it was optimized for higher hashrates. At the same time, the CPU mining clients evolved to increase their speed by using the SSE2/3/4, AVX and AES instruction sets.

At that point it became evident that the hashrate difference between GPU and CPU implementations were not that chaotic, although GPUs still took the crown in terms of energy efficiency. Top of the line and tuned CPUs, like a 6-core i7s running at 4.5 GHz produced 880 khashes/second when GPUs like AMD's 280 and 290 gave 3 times as much.

A ratio of 1:3 was thus established for the fastest CPUs versus the fastest AMD GPUs – which is significantly better than Scrypt or SHA256 and allowing CPU users to mine X11 coins. By June 2014, the ratio had gone up to 1:6 due to the evolution of GPU mining programs and relative stability of CPU mining programs.

It should be noted that these ratios are more a reflection of the mining programs rather than an inherent property of the algorithm itself and thus the ratios can change depending the development progress of the CPU and GPU mining clients.
_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________

is that you wolf0 that got 3000 DRK?

i highly doubt Evan didn't know about Quark, Quark was months ahead of dash launch

(blake, bmw, groestl, jh, keccak, skein) Quark

(blake, bmw, groestl, jh, keccak, skein, luffa, cubehash, shavite, simd, echo) X11
legendary
Activity: 1382
Merit: 1002
Just noticed this  Wink



Thanks for pointing that out pille, surely the new domain is going to be helpful for DASH as a whole.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1188

Just noticed this  Wink



That is way cool.

I now just type straight into my url bar and I'm there.

Sure beats dash-pay-dot-io  Wink

SEO bullseye.
legendary
Activity: 1030
Merit: 1006
Well, duh, of course it was CPU-only at the start. I'm asking if the intent was to make it easier on GPUs than Quark.

I think he just did it his own way, as he didn't know about Quark, which is the impression I got long ago when I asked - don't ask me to find proof, I'll not waste my time.  Just giving you an answer if you're interested.

I suppose it's possible. Meh, hardly matters, I suppose. I just want to know his intentions for the PoW - what qualities he wanted it to have.

If I remember corectly, he mentioned few times that "easier on GPU..." so...
sr. member
Activity: 436
Merit: 250
full member
Activity: 160
Merit: 100
cheaper MN for all  Grin 2.200 $ +200 Dash per year
full member
Activity: 524
Merit: 100
...moron.

Think "useful idiot"
Think "controlled opposition".



At laBITconf, we will be presenting Dash to business representatives, industry experts and potential end users, and giving an update about Evolution as we prepare for the Miami keynote. We will be sponsoring a booth to exhibit Dash and talk directly to as many people as possible.

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1001
Well, duh, of course it was CPU-only at the start. I'm asking if the intent was to make it easier on GPUs than Quark.

I think he just did it his own way, as he didn't know about Quark, which is the impression I got long ago when I asked - don't ask me to find proof, I'll not waste my time.  Just giving you an answer if you're interested.
member
Activity: 116
Merit: 10
https://twitter.com/_Crypto_Mike
Thanks for the info! I'm mining right now around 13 Mh/s. It's severely non-profitable. Which has me wondering why? Even more so, why are so many people hashing away and perfectly fine with losing money? Faith?
Genesis mining have transcended faith using better optimization and cheap electricity from the hot smelly thermal vents of Iceland.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqEgF7NCJ-0

talk about centralization... Shocked
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
going back to this point..

Quote
Inventor of X11 = Quark is the first with chaining 6 algo, they just didn't call it X6....then X11 and X13 and X(for all i care) - nothing great about this

since Quark didn't use "X" and didn't call their algo X6...Evan got the spot light by adding "X" after chaining additional 5 algos (X11).

Evan's idea of adding "X" was so great and he was so proud and called his coin "Xcoin"--- fuckin brilliant LOL  Cheesy

and that my friends explains why Evan was so proud of putting "Inventor of X11" at the dash (former Xcoin) announcement thread. LOL Cheesy

P.S. I love this thread  Grin

Correction: He VASTLY simplified Quark before chaining additional algos - Quark uses branching.

okay i'm giving Evan that.. *clap* *clap* must be so proud of it to add "X" to it...and 5+6 = 11

he is a very good modifier/tweaker whatever the word is  Smiley

It actually makes the algo somewhat more boring, IMO.

why?...in layman's terms please.

Less challenging to make it work well on GPU. Quark made me think a bit.

careful with words now..might label you a troll in here, thanks for the correction and another insight (less challenging Evan).

I'm not too familiar with the launch, but wasn't that the idea? For a GPU implementation?

As I remember it... It was actually only CPU. The GPU came shortly after.   A number of individuals started off with huge server farms just cranking out the hash power... Once I got my bunch of azure servers going and made a good buck all be it for a short time. But... It became quite apparent quickly someone got GPU miners up and that changed the difficulty very quickly.  As I've said this was way beyond my technical level... It was my first mining...but it was super cool.. Once GPU took over I called it quits and. Just invested  in the coin by buying it in the open market.

Well, duh, of course it was CPU-only at the start. I'm asking if the intent was to make it easier on GPUs than Quark.

I certainly can't help on that as I'm not a techie. At that time... I was just reading information on here and winging it. I remember there were several or more individuals that had a clue on what was going on.... Do Any dash old timers know?
legendary
Activity: 1382
Merit: 1002

Fantastic news, Dash has a lot going for it! Great work all and congratulations to the new team members!
legendary
Activity: 3444
Merit: 1061
going back to this point..

Quote
Inventor of X11 = Quark is the first with chaining 6 algo, they just didn't call it X6....then X11 and X13 and X(for all i care) - nothing great about this

since Quark didn't use "X" and didn't call their algo X6...Evan got the spot light by adding "X" after chaining additional 5 algos (X11).

Evan's idea of adding "X" was so great and he was so proud and called his coin "Xcoin"--- fuckin brilliant LOL  Cheesy

and that my friends explains why Evan was so proud of putting "Inventor of X11" at the dash (former Xcoin) announcement thread. LOL Cheesy

P.S. I love this thread  Grin

Correction: He VASTLY simplified Quark before chaining additional algos - Quark uses branching.

okay i'm giving Evan that.. *clap* *clap* must be so proud of it to add "X" to it...and 5+6 = 11

he is a very good modifier/tweaker whatever the word is  Smiley

It actually makes the algo somewhat more boring, IMO.

why?...in layman's terms please.

Less challenging to make it work well on GPU. Quark made me think a bit.

careful with words now..might label you a troll in here, thanks for the correction and another insight (less challenging Evan).

I'm not too familiar with the launch, but wasn't that the idea? For a GPU implementation?

As I remember it... It was actually only CPU. The GPU came shortly after.   A number of individuals started off with huge server farms just cranking out the hash power... Once I got my bunch of azure servers going and made a good buck all be it for a short time. But... It became quite apparent quickly someone got GPU miners up and that changed the difficulty very quickly.  As I've said this was way beyond my technical level... It was my first mining...but it was super cool.. Once GPU took over I called it quits and. Just invested  in the coin by buying it in the open market.

Well, duh, of course it was CPU-only at the start. I'm asking if the intent was to make it easier on GPUs than Quark.

I'll wait for dash insiders to chime in...this is a very good question.
newbie
Activity: 54
Merit: 0
Ethereum is a great platform, but it's not designed to be a currency.

From p2pfoundation.
"One common concern about Ethereum is the issue of scalability. Like Bitcoin, Ethereum suffers from the flaw that every transaction needs to be processed by every node in the network. With Bitcoin, the size of the current blockchain rests at about 20 GB, growing by about 1 MB per hour. If the Bitcoin network were to process Visa's 2000 transactions per second, it would grow by 1 MB per three seconds (1 GB per hour, 8 TB per year). Ethereum is likely to suffer a similar growth pattern, worsened by the fact that there will be many applications on top of the Ethereum blockchain instead of just a currency as is the case with Bitcoin, but ameliorated by the fact that Ethereum full nodes need to store just the state instead of the entire blockchain history." (http://buyxpr.com/build/pdfs/EthereumWhitePaper.pdf)

This is what evolution is addressing.

This is something that DASH has covered correct ?

Yes, Masternode operation is incentivized so as transaction volume increases the value of rewards to run more powerful nodes increases to offset the cost, meaning the network infrastructure scales with usage. Dash's design rationale in this area is to use economic incentives (a share of the block reward distributed equally amongst Masternode operators) to scale the network instead of reliance on Moore's law in the same way Bitcoin mining relies on economic incentives to secure the network rather than volunteerism.

Plus Masternode quorums mean you don't need every node in the network to partake in every action you want to do, therefore if Dash implements something like Ethereum's Turing complete scripting capability, the contract code wouldn't need to be executed by every node in the network, it could be delegated to subsets of nodes i.e. quorums, and could operate in near real-time rather than having to wait for the next block confirmation (state transition in Ethereum terms) by reusing the Instant X architecture.

There are also some new pruning methods in Evolution that Evan is working on that would reduce the blockchain size to help with scaling.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
going back to this point..

Quote
Inventor of X11 = Quark is the first with chaining 6 algo, they just didn't call it X6....then X11 and X13 and X(for all i care) - nothing great about this

since Quark didn't use "X" and didn't call their algo X6...Evan got the spot light by adding "X" after chaining additional 5 algos (X11).

Evan's idea of adding "X" was so great and he was so proud and called his coin "Xcoin"--- fuckin brilliant LOL  Cheesy

and that my friends explains why Evan was so proud of putting "Inventor of X11" at the dash (former Xcoin) announcement thread. LOL Cheesy

P.S. I love this thread  Grin

Correction: He VASTLY simplified Quark before chaining additional algos - Quark uses branching.

okay i'm giving Evan that.. *clap* *clap* must be so proud of it to add "X" to it...and 5+6 = 11

he is a very good modifier/tweaker whatever the word is  Smiley

It actually makes the algo somewhat more boring, IMO.

why?...in layman's terms please.

Less challenging to make it work well on GPU. Quark made me think a bit.

careful with words now..might label you a troll in here, thanks for the correction and another insight (less challenging Evan).

I'm not too familiar with the launch, but wasn't that the idea? For a GPU implementation?

As I remember it... It was actually only CPU. The GPU came shortly after.   A number of individuals started off with huge server farms just cranking out the hash power... Once I got my bunch of azure servers going and made a good buck all be it for a short time. But... It became quite apparent quickly someone got GPU miners up and that changed the difficulty very quickly.  As I've said this was way beyond my technical level... It was my first mining...but it was super cool.. Once GPU took over I called it quits and. Just invested  in the coin by buying it in the open market.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1023
Listen to CIA Whistle Blower John Kiriakou And Evan Duffield Of Dash by The Crypto Show
 Wink
(old interview of Evan / Rerun !)
 Grin
https://soundcloud.com/heryptohow/cia-whistle-blower-john-kiriakou-and-evan-duffield-of-dash

3:50 min onwards
full member
Activity: 194
Merit: 100
Ethereum is a great platform, but it's not designed to be a currency.

From p2pfoundation.
"One common concern about Ethereum is the issue of scalability. Like Bitcoin, Ethereum suffers from the flaw that every transaction needs to be processed by every node in the network. With Bitcoin, the size of the current blockchain rests at about 20 GB, growing by about 1 MB per hour. If the Bitcoin network were to process Visa's 2000 transactions per second, it would grow by 1 MB per three seconds (1 GB per hour, 8 TB per year). Ethereum is likely to suffer a similar growth pattern, worsened by the fact that there will be many applications on top of the Ethereum blockchain instead of just a currency as is the case with Bitcoin, but ameliorated by the fact that Ethereum full nodes need to store just the state instead of the entire blockchain history." (http://buyxpr.com/build/pdfs/EthereumWhitePaper.pdf)

This is what evolution is addressing.

This is something that DASH has covered correct ?
legendary
Activity: 3444
Merit: 1061
going back to this point..

Quote
Inventor of X11 = Quark is the first with chaining 6 algo, they just didn't call it X6....then X11 and X13 and X(for all i care) - nothing great about this

since Quark didn't use "X" and didn't call their algo X6...Evan got the spot light by adding "X" after chaining additional 5 algos (X11).

Evan's idea of adding "X" was so great and he was so proud and called his coin "Xcoin"--- fuckin brilliant LOL  Cheesy

and that my friends explains why Evan was so proud of putting "Inventor of X11" at the dash (former Xcoin) announcement thread. LOL Cheesy

P.S. I love this thread  Grin

Correction: He VASTLY simplified Quark before chaining additional algos - Quark uses branching.

okay i'm giving Evan that.. *clap* *clap* must be so proud of it to add "X" to it...and 5+6 = 11

he is a very good modifier/tweaker whatever the word is  Smiley

It actually makes the algo somewhat more boring, IMO.

why?...in layman's terms please.

Less challenging to make it work well on GPU. Quark made me think a bit.

careful with words now..might label you a troll in here, thanks for the correction and another insight (less challenging Evan).
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1188

The flight and hotel costs should deter them

To a normal person, the idea of being caught in an exhibition of jaundiced turkeys would be enough of a deterrent.
legendary
Activity: 3444
Merit: 1061
going back to this point..

Quote
Inventor of X11 = Quark is the first with chaining 6 algo, they just didn't call it X6....then X11 and X13 and X(for all i care) - nothing great about this

since Quark didn't use "X" and didn't call their algo X6...Evan got the spot light by adding "X" after chaining additional 5 algos (X11).

Evan's idea of adding "X" was so great and he was so proud and called his coin "Xcoin"--- fuckin brilliant LOL   Cheesy

and that my friends explains why Evan was so proud of putting "Inventor of X11" at the dash (former Xcoin) announcement thread. LOL Cheesy

P.S. I love this thread  Grin

Correction: He VASTLY simplified Quark before chaining additional algos - Quark uses branching.

okay i'm giving Evan that.. *clap* *clap* must be so proud of it to add "X" to it...and 5+6 = 11

he is a very good modifier/tweaker whatever the word is  Smiley

It actually makes the algo somewhat more boring, IMO.

why?...in layman's terms please.
legendary
Activity: 3444
Merit: 1061
going back to this point..

Quote
Inventor of X11 = Quark is the first with chaining 6 algo, they just didn't call it X6....then X11 and X13 and X(for all i care) - nothing great about this

since Quark didn't use "X" and didn't call their algo X6...Evan got the spot light by adding "X" after chaining additional 5 algos (X11).

Evan's idea of adding "X" was so great and he was so proud and called his coin "Xcoin"--- fuckin brilliant LOL   Cheesy

and that my friends explains why Evan was so proud of putting "Inventor of X11" at the dash (former Xcoin) announcement thread. LOL Cheesy

P.S. I love this thread  Grin

Correction: He VASTLY simplified Quark before chaining additional algos - Quark uses branching.

okay i'm giving Evan that.. *clap* *clap* must be so proud of it to add "X" to it...and 5+6 = 11

he is a very good modifier/tweaker whatever the word is  Smiley
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