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Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 1718. (Read 9724017 times)

sr. member
Activity: 439
Merit: 250
Hassan Al-Kebab
it is possible that Cryptsy wanted to sucker new users with the following tweet:

"BigVern ‏@cryptsy  Oct 2
Come enjoy the ZERO fee trading at http://Cryptsy.com !"


Right before they start having issues.

Kind of sketchy. Hope everyone gets their funds out.
Whats wrong with cryptsy, did i missed something  Huh
sr. member
Activity: 371
Merit: 250
Quote
clearly a mistake...

With all the damning evidence released clearly showing the instamine was obviously intentional........


"evidence"?  I'll try to reply to a troll Grin

I was there during the "instamine", go check the first pages of this thread and you will see me complaining and discussing.

Evan updated the code many times during the first hours/days because various mistakes. I had some talks in IRC with him during the first days/weeks, and my conclusion was that the instamine happened because he just wasn't very familiarized with Bitcoin codebase and he didn't test his coin properly before launch, plus, at that time most coins were launched without a proper difficulty adjustment algorithm (Kimoto's Gravity Well was fresh new at that time and most coins didn't include it at launch).

I also saw his nickname mining in pools, he didn't even ranking top 10 of the miners (and pools had most of network's hashrate), at that time people didn't hide their nicknames in pools and you were used to see always the same names.

Moreover, if you spend some minutes analyzing the blockchain and you follow the first 1-10 mined blocks (those that are clearly mined by the dev) you will see that eventually they all go to the same addresses, with many other blocks and coins coming from pool-mining, and finally these after weeks don't account for more than 80k XCoins (about 2BTC at the time). I guess that's why he tried to buy some more, and he made it publicly (of course people like you would had thought he was hyping it to then dump his coins at higher price). https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4961359

But the most important, the instamine didn't matter, if anything, it helped with the distribution, and the reason is because during the first weeks of life of XCoin you could buy 100k XCoin for just 2.5BTC - 5BTC, so everyone had his chance for weeks to decide to risk and buy or just sell (I myself sold more than 50k XCoin for less than 2BTC, and decided to buy some back later more expensive):

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4889177
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/anndash-dash-dashorg-first-self-funding-self-governing-crypto-currency-421615
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4867363

Next time you talk about the instamine, understand that those of us who don't care about it is because we understand what happened (can't say the same about you or others just repeating the same over and over without proper knowledge or analysis). We judge XCoin-Darkcoin-DASH (and Evan) for 20 months of upgrades, delivering promises and innovation, and we invest in it because we know it will continue delivering.



*thumbsup*

i'm in the same boat.

To throw some more evidence, that it's like you said - "he just wasn't very familiarized with Bitcoin codebase" - i quoted an old post from me below!

It totally fits to his story, in the beginning it was just a project for fun, and the error with the instamine did not matter. There was no plan to "restart" the coin, because it was just pure fun, with not much value! Some trolls are telling us that if it was an error, he should have just "reset" the blockchain, but why? There was no reason to, the value was peanuts!
Who would think that xcoin would get this big someday? Surley not we, the miners from the beginning, that's why many of us dumped the "instamined" xcoins for cents! And anybody had equally chances to buy big loads of coins for cents. And that's what i think happened, we have formed a big user base, because of the instamine and the ridiculous prices and huge supply in the beginning and that's the most important point for a working currency, a huge user base!!

If someone should cry about the instamine, it should probably be me - because i was one of these "instaminers" who sold 100k coins for cents instead of millions Shocked

- Block reward controlled by moores law ( 1111 / (diff+1 ^ 2))

This is not working, right? I'm getting 500 coins as reward
see all function in source )))

Code:
 
 int64 static GetBlockValue(int nBits, int64 nFees)
{
    double dDiff =
        (double)0x0000ffff / (double)(nBits & 0x00ffffff);

    int64 nSubsidy = (1111 / (pow((dDiff+1),2)));
    if (nSubsidy > 500) nSubsidy = 500;
    if (nSubsidy < 1) nSubsidy = 1;
    nSubsidy *= COIN;

    return nSubsidy + nFees;
}

so i guess we have unlimited coins, dind't find your 84 mio max coins there !!!!!!!

Code:
static const int64 MAX_MONEY = 84000000 * COIN;
--> COINS that can be max in wallet/transaction - this has almost nothing to do with the cap, because the COIN cap is calculated from the blockvalue!!

Code:
if (txout.nValue > MAX_MONEY)
            return state.DoS(100, error("CTransaction::CheckTransaction() : txout.nValue too high"));

that checks transactions for MAX_MONEY but there isn't any check that prevents us from mining more than 84 mio coins !!


legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1491
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
it is possible that Cryptsy wanted to sucker new users with the following tweet:

"BigVern ‏@cryptsy  Oct 2
Come enjoy the ZERO fee trading at http://Cryptsy.com !"


Right before they start having issues.

Kind of sketchy. Hope everyone gets their funds out.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1141
Withdrew a few hundred DASH from Cryptsy, no problems. Maybe the amount was small enough, maybe I got lucky, or maybe their problems aren't DASH related.

If we assume they are running some kind of fractional reserve, DASH is probably the best way to get out, since there are a lot of DASH put up in the asks. There is that ~12k wall for instance @ ~0.01 and if I recall correctly there was a similiar size wall around ~0.0111.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1005
Quote
clearly a mistake...

With all the damning evidence released clearly showing the instamine was obviously intentional........


"evidence"?  I'll try to reply to a troll Grin

I was there during the "instamine", go check the first pages of this thread and you will see me complaining and discussing.

Evan updated the code many times during the first hours/days because various mistakes. I had some talks in IRC with him during the first days/weeks, and my conclusion was that the instamine happened because he just wasn't very familiarized with Bitcoin codebase and he didn't test his coin properly before launch, plus, at that time most coins were launched without a proper difficulty adjustment algorithm (Kimoto's Gravity Well was fresh new at that time and most coins didn't include it at launch).

I also saw his nickname mining in pools, he didn't even ranking top 10 of the miners (and pools had most of network's hashrate), at that time people didn't hide their nicknames in pools and you were used to see always the same names.

Moreover, if you spend some minutes analyzing the blockchain and you follow the first 1-10 mined blocks (those that are clearly mined by the dev) you will see that eventually they all go to the same addresses, with many other blocks and coins coming from pool-mining, and finally these after weeks don't account for more than 80k XCoins (about 2BTC at the time). I guess that's why he tried to buy some more, and he made it publicly (of course people like you would had thought he was hyping it to then dump his coins at higher price). https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4961359

But the most important, the instamine didn't matter, if anything, it helped with the distribution, and the reason is because during the first weeks of life of XCoin you could buy 100k XCoin for just 2.5BTC - 5BTC, so everyone had his chance for weeks to decide to risk and buy or just sell (I myself sold more than 50k XCoin for less than 2BTC, and decided to buy some back later more expensive):

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4889177
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/anndash-dash-dashorg-first-self-funding-self-governing-crypto-currency-421615
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4867363

Next time you talk about the instamine, understand that those of us who don't care about it is because we understand what happened (can't say the same about you or others just repeating the same over and over without proper knowledge or analysis). We judge XCoin-Darkcoin-DASH (and Evan) for 20 months of upgrades, delivering promises and innovation, and we invest in it because we know it will continue delivering.

hero member
Activity: 966
Merit: 1003
Withdrew a few hundred DASH from Cryptsy, no problems. Maybe the amount was small enough, maybe I got lucky, or maybe their problems aren't DASH related.
legendary
Activity: 1030
Merit: 1006
Call me paranoic, but all this @ Cryptsy now looks like coming from same kitchen as trolling here.
 Cryptsy was No.1 for DASH trading!
member
Activity: 88
Merit: 10
Duff-splanation
I like that. Lets use that when we need explanation from Evan on technical stuff.  Thanks icedude.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1188

saddest, angriest, unhappy and wholly negative individuals I've come across....negative, hateful, angry, take-down, threatening, vengeful and oh-so-unhappy frustration.

LoL !  I suppose you've got to start somewhere if you see yourself as an ethics authority and 'policeman'.

Just as well Taylor05 has given him something to aspire to.

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
[Great Wall of Duff-splaining]

Based on the data, I see no reason to disbelieve Evan and the stated amount of coin that he has. In fact, the data seems to support everything he's said.

So yes, you are a liar and Evan is truthful.

Even admits Dash's Instamine exists.  His dishonesty comes from his Duff-splanations of how that Instamine luckily just happened to be exactly the thing X/Darkcoin/Dash needed, Because Reasons.
sr. member
Activity: 283
Merit: 250
Best IoT Platform Based on Blockchain
Great post Taylor05, AdamWhite/IceBreaker or any hater from that coin please stop hating now.
sr. member
Activity: 263
Merit: 250
bovine quadruped, professional loafer, dash dev
I ♥ Taylor05.  Great posts!

sr. member
Activity: 265
Merit: 250
Let's do some simple math, shall we? Let's assume that Evan was the ONLY miner for the first 500 blocks (that's the worst case scenario... you can't assume he mined more than 100%). If we simply determine the network hash rate for the first 100 blocks (using the networkhashps command in the Dash wallet), you can see that there was only 12.6kh/s... this is clearly one (very weak) CPU and the first 100 blocks were mined in a few minutes... it probably took some time to add the other machines he and his friends had at the ready. But from blocks 100-500 the average jumps to 711.2kh/s and appears pretty steady that whole time. Let's assume that this 711.2kh/s is Evan and his friends. They would have gotten about 245,000 of the first 250,000 coins mined (through block 500).

By block 500, things start to change. A few others are clearly joining them by this point, but assuming the 711 of the 895 kh/s were theirs from block 500-600, then they still got 79% of those blocks too (worth about 40,000 Dash). If you repeat this process to figure out the share of each block of 100 they got, you get something like the following:

EDIT: The coin start and coin finish are the beginning total coins in circulation and ending coins in circulation for each set of 100 blocks... so the difference is how many were created for each 100 block section... multiply that by the dev's share and you can see where I get the numbers from.


http://imgur.com/Se5USkw

Each row represents 100 blocks. As you can see, by about block 1,000, the hashrate was up dramatically... this is consistent with posts on BTC of many other miners saying they were up and running. There are a couple of points at which network hash drops, consistent with the fact that a couple of bug fixes went out which probably caused Evan and other miners to stop mining for a brief time to update. By block 2300, Evan and Co's share was probably less than 1% of the network hash rate, by which time these estimates would put them at about 511k coins. After that, there is little chance they got a decent share... maybe another 6,000 coins for the next 1,000 blocks, but basically the party was over by then, so to speak. So if you assume they got about 518k coins by the time they were consistently getting less than 1% of the coins, that represents less than 8.8% of the current number of coins in circulation... which is very consistent with the statements from Evan that "all of the founders" hold less than 10% of the current supply combined.

These assumptions are generous to the "instamine" haters for several reasons:

1) It assumes that Evan was the ONLY miner for the first 500 blocks, which we know isn't true. There was at least one other developer at that time, I believe a friend of Evan's, but I'm not sure... so the "instamine" would have been split at least between two people
2) It assumes no one else was mining for the first 500 blocks (which may be the case... we'll never know, but I make this assumption in the interests of being conservative)
3) It assumes that Evan and Co had absolutely no down time for updating their miners, which is impossible... any downtime would reduce these assumptions
4) It assumes that once huge amounts of mining power joined beginning at block 500 that Evan didn't start experiencing an elevated level of rejects... this is unlikely as well since blocks were being created so rapidly at that time - literally seconds apart on average - that he and many others reported rejects, getting on wrong chains, having to reset, etc. Evan would have no way to be immune to these issues caused by the rapid creation of the blocks and network latency, so the true "networkhashps" is clearly understated during that period because many blocks were rejected and not counted.
5) It assumes that he never sold any Dash

Based on the data, I see no reason to disbelieve Evan and the stated amount of coin that he has. In fact, the data seems to support everything he's said.

Evan is truthful.
This is really nice and very informative , would your mind if this be published somewhere else ? or will you published a nice blog somewhere about this information?
Go right ahead and use the analysis and anything else that I've posted, including the evidence that the emission rate was in error... It's for the good of the community. You might have to go through my post history as I think I've posted a bunch of counter-arguments before.

Maybe if Adam and ICEBreaker keep posting on here it will rile me up again to refine the analysis a bit... that was my quick and dirty effort. I'm sure there's more data I could analyze like the IP addresses of nodes people were posting, the winning addresses of miners, etc. that could add further evidence that refutes these clearly exaggerated claims.

Those guys just don't get it... "it" being so many many things.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Roll Eyes

Instamined,  and proud it happened! Instamined was a great stroke of good luck.  Stop scaring people with nonsense.
newbie
Activity: 25
Merit: 0
Let's do some simple math, shall we? Let's assume that Evan was the ONLY miner for the first 500 blocks (that's the worst case scenario... you can't assume he mined more than 100%). If we simply determine the network hash rate for the first 100 blocks (using the networkhashps command in the Dash wallet), you can see that there was only 12.6kh/s... this is clearly one (very weak) CPU and the first 100 blocks were mined in a few minutes... it probably took some time to add the other machines he and his friends had at the ready. But from blocks 100-500 the average jumps to 711.2kh/s and appears pretty steady that whole time. Let's assume that this 711.2kh/s is Evan and his friends. They would have gotten about 245,000 of the first 250,000 coins mined (through block 500).

By block 500, things start to change. A few others are clearly joining them by this point, but assuming the 711 of the 895 kh/s were theirs from block 500-600, then they still got 79% of those blocks too (worth about 40,000 Dash). If you repeat this process to figure out the share of each block of 100 they got, you get something like the following:

EDIT: The coin start and coin finish are the beginning total coins in circulation and ending coins in circulation for each set of 100 blocks... so the difference is how many were created for each 100 block section... multiply that by the dev's share and you can see where I get the numbers from.

https://i.imgur.com/Se5USkw.png
http://imgur.com/Se5USkw

Each row represents 100 blocks. As you can see, by about block 1,000, the hashrate was up dramatically... this is consistent with posts on BTC of many other miners saying they were up and running. There are a couple of points at which network hash drops, consistent with the fact that a couple of bug fixes went out which probably caused Evan and other miners to stop mining for a brief time to update. By block 2300, Evan and Co's share was probably less than 1% of the network hash rate, by which time these estimates would put them at about 511k coins. After that, there is little chance they got a decent share... maybe another 6,000 coins for the next 1,000 blocks, but basically the party was over by then, so to speak. So if you assume they got about 518k coins by the time they were consistently getting less than 1% of the coins, that represents less than 8.8% of the current number of coins in circulation... which is very consistent with the statements from Evan that "all of the founders" hold less than 10% of the current supply combined.

These assumptions are generous to the "instamine" haters for several reasons:

1) It assumes that Evan was the ONLY miner for the first 500 blocks, which we know isn't true. There was at least one other developer at that time, I believe a friend of Evan's, but I'm not sure... so the "instamine" would have been split at least between two people
2) It assumes no one else was mining for the first 500 blocks (which may be the case... we'll never know, but I make this assumption in the interests of being conservative)
3) It assumes that Evan and Co had absolutely no down time for updating their miners, which is impossible... any downtime would reduce these assumptions
4) It assumes that once huge amounts of mining power joined beginning at block 500 that Evan didn't start experiencing an elevated level of rejects... this is unlikely as well since blocks were being created so rapidly at that time - literally seconds apart on average - that he and many others reported rejects, getting on wrong chains, having to reset, etc. Evan would have no way to be immune to these issues caused by the rapid creation of the blocks and network latency, so the true "networkhashps" is clearly understated during that period because many blocks were rejected and not counted.
5) It assumes that he never sold any Dash

Based on the data, I see no reason to disbelieve Evan and the stated amount of coin that he has. In fact, the data seems to support everything he's said.

Evan is truthful.
This is really nice and very informative , would your mind if this be published somewhere else ? or will you published a nice blog somewhere about this information?
full member
Activity: 220
Merit: 100
I apologize to everyone else on this thread proactively. I know I'm not supposed to quote the trolls or reply to the trolls.

That said, I hope that I've added some incremental insight, analysis, and arguments that is valuable counter-arguments against the trolls' claims.

You're forgiven 'cause that was a hell of a post up there, LOL

+1, pearls before swine in Adam's case but an excellent analysis for the rest of us.

+2  good analysis Taylor05, good work.
      trolls give chance to review coin history, distribution etc.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 502

Leeloo, walls do you see?

We could easily revisit 6 for a restest. Then again, we could visit anywhere in between and keep bouncing back. There's been 2 retests of the 9 levels already in the last 6 weeks and this is the third.

The interesting thing is the volume. The 3-day volume's tapering away to nothing and each retest of the 9 level was on successively less volume. That could be good or could be bad - I won't make any predictions since it's be sure to go the other way if I'm too optimistic  Wink

Also, which market is selling and which is buying is a question that must be asked now w.r.t. Dash market analysis. Right now the currency market is selling and the reserve market's been buying. If the price drops further I'd imagine that trend might accelarate (i.e. more currency sector sellers than masternode sellers). On the other hand, if it jumps back up to 1, it looks like the masternode network population might level off where it is for now.

Interesting times ahead whichever way it goes. On economics. On technology. On commerce. Just sit tight - day trade if you feel brave - and see what happens.



I think the real reason it's down is that practically everyone traded Dash on Cryptsy, and then the article came out on Cryptsy saying they were being investiated.  Then everyone pulled their funds from Cryptsy, leaving very few to trade.  Cryptsy, no being set up to liquidate as fast as the rumor caused people to cash out, couldn't send funds, only making them look like something was up with them.  True or not, I have no idea, but in the end, it killed Dash trade.
BTC is up too.  From $227 Sept 20th to $254 today.  Makes the relative DASH/BTC look lower, but DASH/$ is pretty stable.  Guessing on why BTC is up? Gemini exchange.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1001
I apologize to everyone else on this thread proactively. I know I'm not supposed to quote the trolls or reply to the trolls.

That said, I hope that I've added some incremental insight, analysis, and arguments that is valuable counter-arguments against the trolls' claims.

You're forgiven 'cause that was a hell of a post up there, LOL
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1001
I saw a good exit opportunity.....

I don't think you'd know "good" if it wafted in though your window one day and offered to lift you up out of your angry pissed-off hell-hole of a life.

I just looked back through your posting history. You are one of the saddest, angriest, unhappy and wholly negative individuals I've come across.

It's not just Evan Duffield you're pissed about, it's the iGotSpots dev, the guy running the LTC vs Dash thread, the Bay area guy selling Clams for a premium, qwizzie, Otoh, Sub-Ether, illodin, GhostPlayer, toknormal, aleix, wozzek23. Minotaur26, bigrcanada....in fact virtually everyone except shining "beacons of hope" like iCEBREAKER (ha!).

In 10 pages of your last posts there isn't a single positive, complimentary, encouraging or appreciative post. It's all negative, hateful, angry, take-down, threatening, vengeful and oh-so-unhappy frustration.

You need to get help.

(EDIT: And what's just so gobsmackingly ironic is your buddha avatar. Astounding choice given your nature and countenance)

If only that'd fit in my sig Smiley

I know, right?
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1001
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