Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 205. (Read 9723733 times)

At last somebody calls out the -real- problem!

Solution is very easy:

97% of the miners reward goes to the miners
3% of the miners rewards goes to the masternodes      ->   NOT the insane 40% like now
transaction fee, I say to the miners, however can be splitted with the Masternodes

Running a Masternode costs allmost no power and doesn't need expensive high power servers,
so the 3% is  -more then enough-  for the greedsters!

Right now, the miners seem to be the slaves who finance the income of the Masternodes holders and they can direct
dump their coins and keep their Dash safe at the sideline AND STILL LAUGH AND MAKE MONEY!

If they even buy other coins with the money,they make selling their Dash, hodl this and wait till the next pump,
they would be making EVEN MORE money!! And all this new money is made thanks ripping of the miners!!

Either way, the Masternode holders are laughing and the Miners who keep buying very expensive miners keep
baring huge risks, and are left FAR BEHIND!! (Lots suffer big losses)

And yep, I am a (small) Dash miner, not a MasterNodeSlaveHoarder

Its strange not to be on the same page as you qwizzie as I normally always am. But all of your proposed solutions to improve store of value run the risk of taking away value as I see it. It is a risk I don't feel at all comfortable with. Proof of work ensures the authenticity of the blockchain because it would take too much energy to rewrite it (among other things). This has stood trial by fire for over a decade. Even centralised mining pools are powerless to rewrite the blockchain except for maybe attempting to rewrite the last block or two. The market values proof of work very highly. Look at bitcoin, litecoin, bitcoin cash and bitcoin sv, all 100% proof of work and in the top 10 on coinmarket cap. By contrast Dash which on paper is proof of work with more innovations and enhancements has slumped down the rankings.

In the case of Dash 55% of these authentic mined proof of work tokens are given away for free (as toknormal has said) to masternodes and treasury. The market revalues Dash lower to account for that. If the free 'given away' portion is increased even more then the market will act seemlessly to revalue dash even lower. As I see it these proposed ideas will have the opposite effect to improving store of value. You don't get a free lunch. The treasury spending was meant to compensate for this by increasing value more than if there was no treasury. So far the evidence shows this has not been a success. The market has judged that masternodes and treasury are not worth as much as proof of work. At least as things stand in the marketplace today. To take away more proof of work could be heading in the complete wrong direction.

No, I never bought Dash at that price.  I would be jumping out a building if I did.

And yes, plenty other coins are also down 98%.  I have to admit that.

So lets see which ones recover and which ones keep the downward trend....

That is indeed not bad at all. Dash price is currently in a little pump phase it seems :



Lets see where this leads...

Nevertheless DASH doesn't look that bad:

Most Altcoins are of course down 90% or more from ATH, something trolls like podpod conveniently leave out with their trollish focus on just Dash :

99% down from what price?
Looks like you are one of the chaps who bought at the all time high... Lol

Analysing things on the basis of trying to guess which demographic is more or less prone to send coins to order books is kind of hopeless.

Hashrate always gets paid for. Work from there. The coins that result as a reward from mining therefore always have a buyer (the primary buyer).

 • if the miner holds then the miner is the buyer
 • if the miner sells as they mine then the trade partner is the buyer

So the whole concept of whether miners "dump" or not is moot. What's far more significant is how the hashrate cost is rewarded. Dash is unique amongst POW coins in that the "buyers" of the new supply only receive half the supply. The other half is given away (to masternode holders) who receive the coin at zero cost. There is therefore potentially a wholly distinct price-discovery mechanism at work there since masternodes are at a profit al the way to zero. (Less hosting costs which amount to a paltry amount).

So who bears the cost of those masternode margins ? That is one question. The other question is can that party reduce those costs to itself ?

The answer to the first question is that the primary market bears the cost (the market that pays the mining cost of all rewards). The answer to the second question is that the market can mitigate its overhead (the cost of mining the masternode coins) by devaluing Dash in dollars.

This happens most acutely when marginal demand for masternodes reaches its minimum I imagine (MN count tops off) because then the selling pressure is immense from 2 sources:

 • the primary market migrating to other coins where it gets 90%-100% coin for its hashrate and does not have to cover the cost of expensive "holder" margins

 • masternodes dumping their "free money" and never being at a loss no matter what the price of Dash

The way to resolve this IMO is to MDGA ("Make Dash...") by returning it to its original mission: Bitcoin with Masternodes. That means restoring the mining reward to as high a possible level, say 80%-90% and bring Dash back to competitiveness. Although MN margins will be less in terms of Dash, the business model will be viable again and the project can grow. MN dollar-denominated rewards will then turn around IMO and start to grow as well.

We do not want to go down the route of trying to become a utility token, POS "bribery" token or any kind of cooked up hybrid IMO. Bitcoin with masternodes is a very strong proposition and we should make it work.

General Network Service Provider ?

I think both miners and masternode owners are currently dumping coins :

Masternode owners are dumping their masternode rewards, but (most) keep their collateral intact.
Lately the number of active masternodes is on the decline, maybe some owners are also selling their collateral to survive this bear market ?
Masternode capitulation is still ongoing (as the decline is still occurring).

Link : http://178.254.23.111/~pub/masternode_count.png

Miners are also dumping their miner rewards, to pay for their hardware or electricity.
Miners capitulation seems much less an issue though, looking at the hash ribbons indicator :

Link : https://imgur.com/uhP0phA

It explains why Dash still has such high hashrate. The big miners pushed out the smaller miners some time ago and are with current price still making a profit or can hold out in current bear market much better.
That is why improving Dash store of value should be done (gradually) at the expense of miners, who are only getting more centralized over time
(currently a few mining pools already hold the majority of Dash hashing power) and who keep hitting ATH's with their hashing power.

Dash Network Hashing Power : https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/dash-hashrate.html
Dash Miners Concentration : https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/#!extraction



I am surprised some people apparently feel a need to defend or feel a need to actually strengthen the role of Dash miners, when those same miners are already operating at ATH level and are
showing dangerous signs of centralization.

Possible solutions to improve Dash store of value :

* Masternode Shares : we decentralize and further incentivize our masternode network, while taking some power away from miners (making them less of a centralized factor for Dash in the future).
   Dash will still have PoW, but it will be a diminished PoW.

* Deterministic Holders Lists : We focus more on providing a staking option for regular users, while taking some power away from miners (making them less of a centralized factor for Dash in the future).
   Dash will still have PoW, but it will be a diminished PoW.

* Going with some kind of ChainLocks / BLS Proof of Stake without any miners on our network : this is currently not possible as BLS signatures can fail during stress / updating and therefore need a backup solution
  (one we don't have).

Whats GNSP ?


Ryan Taylor reckons masternode owners are hodlrs and its the miners that are dumping coins

Stop giving away free coins to be dumped at any price and charging the value of those coins to the market that pays for the mining hashrate.

Then the trend may have a chance to reverse.

Otherwise, I'd have to agree with this:

Thank you for these charts (weekly, monthly) and very neutral overview with them.

Such opportunity to buy very cheap DASH only occur each every 3 or 4 years. It is hard to say but what a pity for anyone who still hesitate and fear about the benefits of taking 'risks' with very cheap DASH, in BTC pair, at the moment. If they hesitate this time, they will do turn into deeply regret about their missed opportunities in next one or two years, or sooner, in next few months.

Weekly Chart (chart is very similar to afbitcoins, but with a slightly different RSI)



I have a feeling we are currently at the very end of our downtrend, (C)RSi is showing slightly higher lows over time and
MACD is still having positive momentum (green). I suspect it will continue with another positive momentum, similar to the
positive momentum that took place between september 2018 and april 2019.

Monthly Chart



Question remains for how long this down trend / side-lining will continue and when buyers
will start entering the Dash market (or any Altcoin market) again and create more buy pressure.

Is there an end in sight to the dash bear market?

Chart shows dashbtc with log price scale, on poloniex exchange, which gives one of the largest timescales to look at. We can see how Dash entered a downtrending channel in the second half of 2017. And has been there ever since, currently mired near the bottom of it.

Looking at technicals Dash is now near levels not seen since 2014 and 2015 This is pretty much a complete retracement of the whole of dash's trading history.  I am hoping that these levels will mark the end of the bear market and support can be found here. (Horizontal dashed line).

Chart

This is depressing stuff. There is a lot of angst in the community. Ryan Taylor of Dash Core group has even suggested penalising miners, taking away yet more of the miner share and giving them the blame for the sell pressure on the market. (really) He points to increasing hash rate coupled with falling price and creates a correlation with no further evidence needed. I would instead consider how much worse price would have fallen if not for the miner hash rate supporting the coin.

Other far less innovative proof of work coins, such as litecoin and bitcoin cash and bitcoin sv do not give portion of block reward for wasteful treasury spending and have benefited by falling less than dash in the bear market.

Even more worryingly some people are calling for Dash to move to a proof of stake or hybrid proof of stake model, to reward (or is that bribe) ordinary users. This will not work, proof of stake is even more prone to centralisation than proof of work. Users will not value their free dash, it will be valued according to free money and sold while it has value, not seen as an investment to hold on to.  

Amanda of Dash Investment Foundation suggests merging with bitcoin cash! While the idea of merging two decentralised communities and blockchains sounds impossible. This is again symptomatic of the soul searching that goes on in the depths of a bear market.

Through all this Dash Core have given dash instant secure, 'on-chain' transactions to the network. Dash still aiming for payments market,to be like paypal. What has been acheived is amazing, and unique in the crypto sphere. Dash now considered a proof of work coin which is 51% attack proof and has respendable after only a few seconds.

But one problem as I see it is dash is hard money, like bitcoin or gold. Maybe payments is not the right goal for hard money? Would you like to spend your gold or your bitcoin or dash on a new gadget? Or just use your credit card and save your precious assets? And, do you want to pay capital gains tax when you buy a coffee?

What is the use case for what we have? The cream of the crop of on-chain transactions unrivaled by other proof of work blockchains? I think the soul searching may have to come up with the answer to this. We are in the same boat as other hard money crypto assets in this regard. Bitcoin has all but ditched payments. Even though Dash has achieved so much maybe  we still don't have the right goal?

There must be some areas of finance that need quick settlements?

FreeBitcoins.com plans on supporting DASH across our site in early 2020.

FreeBitcoins.com will be adding a DASH faucet & adding DASH to our altcoin exchange.

It should be dashing!

Still a few hours to go for me personally, but to those from Australia and New Zealand :

So any slight movements in the opposite direction ?!?!?!?!?!

We not talking slight movements, we talking 99% down... 

I hope so... It would be good for investors to see their portfolio increase again like it did around 2017 bull-run period. The confidence will grow and investors will hopefully return.

It's quite understandable because lots of people who come in to the market to invest in cryptos are looking for a much easier and quicker way of getting rich in the name of early adoption. So any slight movements in the opposite direction bring a lot of panic and negative news from players who don't wish cryptocurrencies any success.

I personally still believe we are yet to see the best of cryptos( Bitcoin, Dash and other top popular coins that have been around for a while).. 2017 could have just been a sneak peak of what might be yet to come.