Topic: [ANN][Datacoin] Next step: web applications inside blockchain (demo) (Read 12088 times)

Lots of great Datacoin discussion on the new Datacoin thread

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2188160.640

Bytestamp.net adds support for digital assets

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2188160.80

nice work!

http://www.bytestamp.net/blocks/index

lol
Sometimes I get on the internet and act really crazy

who said i worried? I have already watched your conversations in other threads about patents It was funny

of course not.  sorry.

Also, its really nothing to worry about.  

Can we see your patent?

>invented system for exploiting corporate IP
>don't want to go to jail
>write paper
>post paper online
>let anonymous developer make the ideas
>become early adopter

profit and win!!

it gets better...
>patent pending
>used to prevent non anonymous development or use
>prevent large companies from using the coin
>large companies have to choose: use the coin and get sued by me or get perpetually owned by my intellectual property exploit

Hilarious!!

On the Lumsden Economy, Nemesis Contract, and Timeline of Uploads
A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash and Intellectual Property System
Donal Lumsden
[email protected]

    A large feature of any economy is currency or a medium of exchange.  Currency is traditionally based on something of relative scarcity in order to maintain value.  Gold has been used as a basis for currency due to its intrinsic value and scarcity.  One criticism of gold backed currency is its inelasticity.  Government currency offers elasticity at the price of potential corruption.  Governments create artificial scarcity of their currency by limiting the supply in order to allow the currency to retain value.  As a result, users of government currency must have faith that the government will keep the supply of currency low.  Satoshi Nakamoto made an innovation for alternative, digital currencies by relating the introduction of new Bitcoins to the scarce resource of computational power through an intractable problem.  In this paper, another scarce resource is proposed for the basis of digital currency: innovation.  Rather than basing digital currency on proofs of work, the author proposes basing digital currency on proofs of innovation.

The author asserts the hypothesis that monetary compensation of an entity for generating intellectual property is governed on average by the following equation:


Where M represents monetary compensation
N is an integer representing the number of people involved in the organization
A is a constant > 0

The author asserts that this hypothesis is a logical conclusion of an entity’s ability to utilize an exploitive strategy in a competition to win a zero sum game, government granted monopolies.  The author proposes that if this equation is true, then this represents an unbalanced strategy in intellectual property.  By definition, an unbalanced strategy is exploitable.  A balanced strategy would be of the form:


    If the proposed hypothesis is valid, a certain intellectual property dilemma occurs as a result: the Lumsden Dilemma. The Lumsden Dilemma is summarized as such: compensation for innovation is important for economic advancement, but the end result of a government intellectual property system is to remove the necessity of compensation paid to innovators. The Lumsden Dilemma is dependent on the Lumsden Hypothesis; the more employees under contract in an organization, the more undeserved compensation that organization will receive through a government intellectual property system.  As a result, the most lucrative strategy for an organization is to be the largest organization.  
     A valid Lumsden Hypothesis results in an economy with a few massive organizations rather than a large number of smaller organizations.  Once the outcome of few large organizations has been achieved, these organizations can offer less and less compensation to their innovative employees, because financial compensation is largely dependent on the organization’s size rather than the innovations produced by the organization.  Once a certain threshold has been surpassed, the vast majority of profits attained through a government intellectual property system can be allocated to share holders and non innovative employees, rather than the innovators themselves.  


The object of the game is to have more value than your competitor at the end of the game;
2 entities (EA, EB) are in direct competition;
Each party has a file (FA, FB) with respective values (VA, VB);
EA has a number of employees NA;
EB has a number of employees NB;
Once a constituent has been exposed to a message there is no way of proving the removal of the message from the constituent;
Public disclosure of a file (F) results in the loss of the associated value (V) for the controlling entity (E);

Competing parties are allowed to pay a competitor's constituents to publicly disclose a message through the use of anonymous payment methods;
Constituents can publicly disclose a message without risk through the use of anonymous internet access;
If a message is disclosed, the chance a given constituent disclosed the message is 1/N where N is the number of constituents exposed to that message;
Constituents make decisions based on the options with the highest expected value governed by the equation:


Result of Proposed Strategy with Game: The smaller the ratio of 1/N, the more likely an entity will have a file publicly disclosed by an employee to collect the reward;

    The use of original disclosure of an innovation as the basis for currency has the potential to transform a capitalist economy.  Deemed the Lumsden Economy, the value of the currency in circulation will scale on a 1:1 ratio with the value of innovations disclosed by citizens of the economy.  This solves the problem of an inelastic money supply, by allowing the value of outstanding coins in the system to grow proportionately to the growth of the economy.  The use of original disclosure of innovation as the basis of currency gives Lumsden’s Currency intrinsic value in the form of useful information.  Implementations of a novel intellectual property and currency system are utilized to provide incentive for economic growth through innovation.  This new intellectual property system is designed with open source file sharing in mind, while retaining value for innovators through the network effect.  Such a system should align with the future of manufacturing: distributed production by micro factories such as 3D printers.
 
    A proposal of the Ethereum Project is the creation of a turing complete block chain, meaning any program could be coded and executed within a block chain.  As a result, many types of contracts could be developed, along with many iterations of an essentially similar contract.  The proposed Nemesis Contract produces a cryptographic currency specific to a file upload, and allocates a percentage of that currency X% to the uploader(s), and the rest (100-X)% to a network of seeders who provide access to the file and prevent file deletion, censorship.
 
    Inventors or uploaders submit files to a cryptographic ledger, forming a timeline of files.  Upon the upload of each file, an upload specific currency is generated.  The number of upload specific coins generated per upload is fixed.  X% of these upload specific coins will be transacted to the uploader(s) over time while (100-X)% will be transacted to seeding miners over time.  The author is proposing a crypto currency backed by the intrinsic value of files submitted by a network of uploaders, a new type of P2P currency miner.
 
    To provide incentive for users to both seed and upload files in exchange for an upload specific currency, that currency must have some scarcity.  One way to drive scarcity is through advertising revenue.  By hosting advertising slots in a region specific to an upload, and selling advertising rights through auctions of the upload specific currency, there will be demand for that upload specific currency as long as there is demand for upload specific advertising.
>I don’t believe this is necessary. In my opinion, the information has intrinsic value without forcing advertising to be sold in upload specific coins
 
    The threshold for file uploading is dependent on the value paid to the uploader and the cost of uploading the file.  If the information of the file is worthless then uploading the file to the system will be a waste of the uploader’s time and payment for uploading, limiting reclaimed and frivolous claim submissions.  A small fee could be charged to the uploader to prevent the upload of small value files and spam uploads.  In general, it is good practice to keep this fee as low as possible to prevent giving an advantage to rich uploaders, whose information may not be any more valuable to the economy than a poor uploader.  Paying the uploader a fixed fee would create a fundamental inefficiency in the system as an upload’s value would drop due to an incentive to submit poor claims for the reward, hence the use of upload-specific currencies.  
 
    The block chain for such a system becomes a randomly generated, randomly changing sequence of uploaded information.  New uploads add information to the end of the timeline of uploads.  Elimination of the seeding network for an upload results in the redaction of the complete file from the “Timeline of Uploads” leaving behind only a hashed version of the uploaded file.

    One potential contract would pay upload specific coins between the seeding network and the uploader in a 1:1 manner. Rather than giving 50% of all potential coins outstanding immediately, the uploader’s coins are vested over the life of the seeding process.
 
    Seeders are paid with inflation of upload specific currencies for the uploaded files that they seed.  Seeders provide a decentralized network of storage and hosting.  The value of such a network is related to its ability to survive an attack and its ability to provide the content to other users.
>Proof of storage miners may be used with the main goal of preventing censorship and deletion of the upload, then users who want to view content can separately negotiate a price for downloading the file based on the price of bandwidth usage, supply and demand.  
 
    The aforementioned system of currencies intends to directly monetize the creative process.  The system of currencies intends to bring equality to intellectual property markets by providing incentive for transparency and compensation for open sourcing information.  The system of currencies intends to provide incentive for uploaders to publish files.  The peer-to-peer intellectual property system intends to maximize the efficiency of the economy by allowing free markets to competitively value novel claims in the form of uploaded files, by giving the ability to claim inventions to a larger population such as people who can’t afford filing fees/enforcement of a patent, by allowing claimers to be rewarded for pseudonymously publishing claims such as trade secrets of an employer, by providing incentive to publish ideas of ingenuity immediately rather than after years of government deliberation and patent filings, by removing government bureaucracy from intellectual property, and by removing the need for lawyers in order to receive compensation for ideas.

References
Satoshi Nakamoto, “Bitcoin: A Peer to Peer Electronic Cash System.” https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
John F. Nash Jr., “Ideal Money and the Motivation of Savings and Thrift.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je22xKQekCk
Vitalik Buterin, “Ethereum: A Next-Generation Smart Contract and Decentralized Application Platform.” http://www.ethereum.org/ethereum.html

>>ideas
>>invented

where is your coin?

You are espousing ideas that I invented.  They are good ideas, but I haven't seen much indication from oocook5u that this is what is actually going to happen. 

Furthermore,  where can I find a graph of Datacoin's inflation rate?

It would be nice to hear this from the developer himself.  I would love if this were actually going to happen. 

The idea that all data will be stored on a single chain and mined by lots of people, not knowing what could be on the chain, defies logic.  Most people do not want to risk getting arrested just to receive some credits inside a computer. 

Also, I would like to hear the developer comment on changing storage payments from a payment made to the miners to a proof of burn.  Without this, the claim that "data coins have intrinsic value" is completely misleading. 

I appreciate your 2 cents.

if some1 is going to implement this kind of a thing, trust is a huge issue, maybe the biggest. Needless to say, lots of people will claim to have software/files/keys and we may end up paying for the link of a trojan. This is also an issue in the case of web based file/crack download sites and they are for free. When money is involved it must be so carefully designed to make it work. I think an ebay-like built-in user rating system might be some sort of a solution. I would download something from a 97% rating node. Just my 2 cents.

Eventually, yes, something like that.  



I understood that links can be updated/redirected in subsequent transactions. Personally I am not too worried about the hygiene of the blockchain.  

Datacoin is superior because it is decentralised and uncensorable, and there wil be an incentive to share files (the nodes will be paid).  All in the blockchain.  Combining bitcoin and bittorrent forces you to use a centralised service.

You should wait for the developer (oocook5u) to actually implement the private chains.  These ideas are so new that it will take some time for the implications to become clear.  I'm taking a 5/10 year view.

datacoin = bitcoin + bittorrent ?

lots of questionmarks/problems
-the links to private files in the blockchain will become obsolete over time so fast and they can not be removed as a blockchain is meant to be static.
-why the currency is built in the sharing system? (or vice versa) There is already decentralized sharing systems such as bittorrent working fine. If this datacoin is for file shares, I can already simply pay some service in bitcoins for providing me some torrent download link or something without datacoin (probably I won't need to pay anything for downloading a torrent but let's assume it is rare and I do). How different/better datacoin is than this solution?

Ultimately the blockchain will only have metadata - keys, torrents, links etc.  The actual data will be in private chains on the nodes.  So Datacoin will become almost like a distributed file sharing service.  With a built-in currency to prevent leeching - the nodes will be paid to serve up the data.

With all due respect, I don't see this coin going anywhere. Would someone mind explaining me why on earth would I wanna keep generic web application info on a block chain? Aftermath? Won't it become obsolete over time or extremely slow being nonsql? Do we really need this? Well sometimes new and interesting do not mean useful.

Even bitcoin's block chain got so large causing a problem, noone downloads it. Only exchanges and pools do so. People warn about 51% attack and this is largely due the huge block chain. Something should be in the blockchain only if it is really necessary. Otherwise it is a huge burden as of redundancy. Reasons from the OP;

1. they are protected from being deleted or censored
Ok, I guess I am supposed to save some data that I fear will be censored publicly on a block chain so that the block chain will save the data. Am I the only one thinking that this is weird? What's the point? What kind of data or app would I wanna save in block chain apart from the block chain itself?
2. they work locally and don't require a live Internet connection
did you hear about just downloading what you want? What's the point of combining stuff?
3. web interface is convenient to users
oh great, then I should put everything in the blockchain
4. no new technologies are required for developement: HTTP, AJAX and JSON RPC are simply linked together
really?

More services are needed...
And more functionalities of the client. Like attached block explorer, solo and pool mining on the client with newest miners, download/upload data directly from client.

1. I would also like to see datacoin client ready to use with tor. Tor attached or something like that...It should be that difficult i think...


2. I would like to see something like a txt only forum on the blockchain. While this will surely bloat the blockchain will also make it more usefull. People will post knowledge, links, phrases etc that banned on many countries...Maybe not really a forum but more like a chat with all its history...Of course people must pay to send as usually...And i would like to see this chat attached on the client.

Yes i know that datacoin is for more important things but a chat that someone can post things and last forever i think is also important...

P.S. Unfortunately i am still very noob in programming to even try something like that...
P.S.   oocook5u please add the dnsseeder on the client. k1ller has made it already.