Topic: [ANN][FAIR] FairCoin - for a fair economy, featuring proof-of-cooperation - page 69. (Read 376780 times)

So, my proposal could be designed like this.

We build a Faircoin stabilization fund. That fund only appears in special situations, like we have now. I n the future when Coopshares liquidity fund would be bigger, probably that stabilization fund not would be needed, but right now is needed.

From getfaircoin we manage that fund.  we receive Bitcoin,  and buy on the sell walls. After that we distribute the faircoins in proportion of your investment.

For the people that suports the stabilization fund, and as a reciprocity of the risk that you are taking
We could bring 20% bonus of your buy in Bittrex, as a free investment in Coopshares FIF.  (This comes from the sells that we are doing in getfaircoin.net at bigger price)

So, as example. You invest 1 BTC, with that BTC the stabilization fund, buys 10000 FAIR (if the prices 10000 satoshis in that case)
then we send you the 10000 FAIR and we create for you an investment of 2000 FAIR in Coopshares FIF.


People that want to help without enter to the fund, can do anyway, managing their funds at their own, but without the coopshares bonus.

I would like to know if there are people interested in join.

I know, we not can manipulate price of bittrex.

My proposal is not about price manipulation but about in one side making easier to invest in Bittrex, for adding buying pressure for real; in the other side trading cooperation. Trading cooperation means, that you can join if you know that others are also joining in do the same action that helps the full community and also yourself, so that mean that you are not alone.  That coordination help people to make one step... that perhaps would not happen if some one feels alone.

That "unlimited acces to fiat" will come from the crowd as soon we would be able to activate the real economy happening with faircoin. Faircoin week have this aim, and for this is why I am proposing to collaborate in adjust bittrex and getfaircoin. We need that to have a balanced ecosystem for buying and selling goods.

At that moment for example we could promote for the greek travellers being in Spain, move money from theirgreek  account to spanish ATM but we  not can do that until getfaircoin and bittrex are balanced. (fairtoearth would lije to have getfaircoin reference, but not can support cashout pressure, if the prices are not balanced...)

Everything for real is pending that the prices becames balanced...

Ok, nothing is unlimited, neither selling pressure is... So lets make the acces to fiat more unlimited than the selling pressure,  by the better way, that is real economic activity...

What i think we should do is to get out of Bittrex, and here is why:

Bittrex is ran by trading bots, computer software in other words.
All the top cryptocurrencies are ran by bots too.
Bittrex is full of daily traders with bots.

So no matter how many buy orders we place, bots always win.

I did mention to get out of bittrex a while ago, i mean i donated to get in bittrex as it was much needed at some point.
Now i think we should leave it.

Just my opinion.

Price manipulation will never work no matter what you do. Unless you have unlimited access to Fiat. Even if you force raise price to 15K whats keeping sellers from bringing it right down.
If I invest say 1BTC and we raise price to 15K and then it crashes to 6K I lose over .5TC

Yes, Coopshares use getfaircoin.net as a price reference.
Anyway if you invest in FIF (faircoin investment fund)   https://coopshares.net/2015/05/21/fif/
you will be able to cashout as a Fair, at least in 6 month. So, you will receive in principle 20000 FAIR when cashout - the same amount-, and therefore in this case the EUR reference not affects your investment.

The problem you mention affects when yo invest in FEHIF: https://coopshares.net/2015/05/20/get-faircoin-fehif/   And in this case the cashout of 50% euros and 50% faircoin will be based in getfaircoin.net reference.

Otherwise, as stated above, we need to cover that spread, asap...

I want to make two separate 20,000 FAIR investments into CoopShares if possible.  Although it currently says €1.00 = 20 FAIR so does that mean that each 20,000 FAIR investment would have a value of €1,000.  Even though at the current market price of €0.017726/1FAIR would mean that the current market value would be €354.52 for 20,000 FAIR.

Hello people,

Reading all your opinions of this last days related the faircoin price situation in getfaircoin, bittrex, etc...

I see in one hand, that Bitcoin has grow a 20% the last two weeks  (top on 30% this weekend). Also other cryptocurrencies has grown a lot.
And this makes in proportion the getfaircoin price a cheaper one (currently about 17000 satoshis in bittrex).

Otherwise We are working heavily in faircoin adoptiop for the real economy, with the ATM network, the use.fair-coin.org directory and the next faircoin week for 24-31 july.... besides other long term projects like fairmarket, Coopshares, ... 
The real value of what we are doing is growing, besides what bittrex has to say (that can be heavy affected by short term choises of few big holders, as we saw on the weekend).
Also FairCoop is investing in bointies and some expense based in getfaircoin.net  price, in that context not makes sense to chante to lower the getfaircoin price, because this would affect the expectatives of the people working for bounties, and the faircoop budget itself... Also is a problem for the stability that we want to create and show for the newcomers to cryptocurrency.

Anyway, at that moment, the price spread between bittrex and getfaircoin is too much, for making the faircoin ecosystem works for real...
Especially we need to make possible for merchants that will be involved in the faircoin week, to cashout faircoin at same price that they sell
when based in getfaircoin value. For that question of the faircoin week we need to push the bittrex price until at least close to 15000 satoshis, before july 20.

Therefore my proposal is to share the responsability to buy up in bittrex this week, between lots of the faircoin supporters that could be part of that and are reading us. So, if you have bitcoins or possibility to buy for investing in bittrex to show your support to faircoin, and make a good investment at that low prices, please prepare your buys!!

We have Sell walls around 17 BTC until 15000 so, we need to put together about this amount to make the push to help on the faircoin stability.
If around 15 people invest 1 BTC of so, we can do it...

I am thinking in the way to manage that call for buy up in bittrex in the better way, and would like to know your opinions.
I could spend faircoins for make bonus for people that come to this call and I am thinking in the way to manage that proposal. I will write more later tody about that.

Meanwhile I remember good practices for helping the faircoin value and the faircoop projects, next days.

Good practices.
- Buy up in the sell walls (thats the best one, for pushing the price)
-  Build Buy walls, in the upper prices, to create buying pressure.
- If you not really need to sell, avoid to put sell walls below 15000 satoshis (or much lower that getfaircoin.net reference)
- If you spend faircoin using services like bitbill, fairtoearth or some merchants, remember to  rebuy your faircoin holdings buying on bittrex

Thanks for your support!

Which is clear is that if you cashout faircoin in anyway (bitbill, fairtoearth, bittrex,....)   you are creating selling pressure by this action.

So, if you want to use Bitbill for example without creating new selling pressure, you can at the same time put a buy wall for the same amount in bittrex. Doing like this, you can use their service,  (can be useful for example for making wire transfer that you dont want to do from a bank), without afecting the faircoin value.

Great, good move 

Ok, cool, I will definately join this investment.

I do have to say I was a bit confused by all the options and links on the http://www.coopshares.net page and was not really sure what the investments option were and which ones were the donation optins and also which option does what.

But on the page https://coopshares.net/2015/05/20/participate/ I found the FIF (Faircoin Investment Fund) and that's the one I want to join for now.
I clicked on the "through this form" link on this page under the FIF section and signed up to invest 10.000 FAIR.

I will send them right now ! 

This is what we are trying to do with http://www.coopshares.net
Any support to help to build that project is welcome... and getting the liquidity need is very welcome

the answer is simple here.....don`t use Bitbill to pay the electrical bill then

right now i feel that Bitbill is really ridiculous that overcharge the users with such the highest rate and by that means it just want to get huge INSTANT profits with dumping it in Bittrex!

As long as the GetFairCoin price runs behind the Bittrex price it amplfies any swing be it up or down.
To counter it the GetFairCoin price has to be ahead of Bittrex.

-> If the bittrex price is raising the getFairCoin Price has to be a bit heigher. -> damping the overbuy
-> if the bittrex price is falling the getFairCoin Price has to be a bit lower.  -> attracting mroe buyers

That's the way to stabilize a system.
The intention to make a stable FairCoin price to a more stable GetFairCoin price compared to Bittrex is what amplifies the price  instability.

my 2 cents

I understand what you mean of course and I've already used BTC to buy more FAIR from Bittrex.
Unfortunately I'm just one guy with limited funds and the price on Bittrex has gone down regardless of my buying.
Also, GetFairCoin was created to make FAIR accessible to people for whom buying BTC first and then trading on Bittrex would be too much of a hassle. The only thing needed would be to download the FAIR wallet and get FAIR at GetFairCoin with easy and trustworthy payment method's.

Example:
Someone who has not been interested in crypto up until now reads an interview with Enric Duran and hears about Faircoop and the ideas behind creating a new FAIR economy based on cooperation.
He gets enthousiastic and downloads a wallet and buys 2000 FAIR for 100 euro with Paypal through GetFairCoin.
Then after a week, he decides to use Bitbill to pay his electrical bill of 50 euro with FAIR, to contribute to the usage of FAIR.
He then suddenly realises that his electrical bill will cost him about 2020 FAIR, because the price on Bittrex is about half of what he paid for his FAIR.
That does not sound FAIR to me.

I do agree however that speculation must be avoided/ discouraged as much as possible, but I don't know if that's really possible with FAIR being on Bittrex. The bottom line should be that GetFairCoin should never make any losses by buying and selling FAIR.
Therefore, I think that GetFairCoin should stop buying sell orders from Bittrex, like they did with the first rise.
Instead, they should start putting in buy orders to Bittrex.
That way they create actual buy support in Bittrex, without raising the price the whole time which can only create speculation frenzies.
So we just need solid buy walls a little bit below the last traded price at Bittrex.
The GetFairCoin price can then be a little bit above that to motivate the price to rise again.
I would say a current 30 FAIR/ euro price in GetFairCoin would be sufficient.

Please everybody come with better ideas if you have them ! 

Why not create one of the coop funds dedicated only to give stabilization of the coin and to punish speculators?

this is why the price in GetFairCoin should be higher..just look back the pass few months when the price in GetFairCoin was lower than Bittrex(most of the time)..and now the consequence is....we need to take more time for market to restore it's balance between Bitcoin and Euro

The question is not to use other ways or more cryptos ( and fees ) in the way to use Faircoin and try to make a closed circle,  you say to buy bitcoin ( and pay fee for that ) and then send to bittrex and pay other fee for buy faircoins. and of course pay other fee for withdraw the coins.. well 3 steps and 3 fees is not really simple for many people... meanwhile you can use getfaircoin directly with just 1 fee for the faircoop network, but not posible at this prices, I know this soon will be history but speak and share ideas is good!

I know Faircoop team is working to fix this, for me is not a problem of trust becouse I continue trusting 100% but maybe yes, we need other way to do it until the liquidity fund is ready to start working.

time ago was said that bittrex FAIR vol. was not to big to care about the price there but I see a problem if the faircoop net are working with the bittrex exchange ratio:

buy 20 euro in getgaircoin = 400 FAIR
echange 20 euro in fairtoearth = 1081 FAIR
pay 20 euro for bills in bitbill = 1358 FAIR

well if someone feel the price on GetFairCoin is so high and unacceptable..the solution is really simple..just use the Euro that you want to invest in Faircoin to buy Bitcoin,and then use the Bitcoin and buy Faircoin in Bittrex...there is no need to change the rate on GetFairCoin and it should be set as a standard price to avoid the speculators that try to get benifit with buying cheap Faircoin and than dumping it on Bittrex.

I think you are totally right.

@Faircoop team:
The current FAIR price in GetFairCoin has really become unsustainable in my opinion.
The way it is going now, no new money is coming in through GetFairCoin, because the price is really, really hign compared to the Bittrex price.
This prevents new money coming in to GetFairCoin, which prevents the FairCoop team from buying new FAIR from Bittrex, which prevents the price on Bittrex to rise again.
So we are really in a stallmate now and this is starting to threaten to trust in the whole FAIR economy.
So the price in GetFairCoin really needs to be lowered again to the current Bittrex level. Then we can begin to grow again.

I understand the vision of being attached to the Euro instead of Bitcoin, but maybe it's a little bit too early to let go of that link completely.
Also, linking to the euro would of course only really work if you could also sell you FAIR for euro's at all times against the same rate.
If you can only buy for euro's and not sell, then a link will not work.

So please adjust GetFairCoin price for all the people who are not on Bittrex and we are good to go again ! 

Does everybody agree with this ?