Topic: [ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11 - page 183. (Read 583120 times)
What on this earth is happening? There are only like 10 buy orders left on mintpal and 200+ million sold on cryptsy
What is karmashares?
100% of profits will be distributed to members on a quarterly basis according to each member's percentage owned of Karmashares LLC. Please note that Karmashares membership is only offered privately, not publicly.Further, exchanging your coins for membership should not be considered an "investment".
dont forget karmashares where not made for a investment !!!!
100% of profits will be distributed to members on a quarterly basis according to each member's percentage owned of Karmashares LLC. Please note that Karmashares membership is only offered privately, not publicly.Further, exchanging your coins for membership should not be considered an "investment".
dont forget karmashares where not made for a investment !!!!
Lol.... most of the coin holders will jump the ship, if there is no sale. I hope there will be no sale and only the true believers of Karma team who has enough patience will get any profits in the future. Currently, most of the so called holders are only holding because of the very low price, not because of the love or belief in the Karma coin. People who have belief in the coin and team already took the risk and exchanged their coins for shares in the LLC. Only the believers(risk takers) should get the rewards and that is the right Karma, not some exchanges who hold other peoples coins in their wallet. So, I really really hope there will be no Lill sale and then we can see the true supporters for the coin. 
This is true, if there will be no sale, some people will dump, since they count with downtrend. I expect flash crash than. Dumpers will dump fast and than belivers will buy cheap KARM. The fact is, price will recover soon to 150-200 litoshi after any flash crash, the reason is KARM mining reward will be reduced from 35000 KARM per block to 20000 per block in 1 day. It is block 298505 and reward is cut to 20000 since block 300.000. Right now mining KARM was profitable at price higher than 130 litoshi. After that reward cut mining profitabiility will increase to 230+ litoshi. I call this save ticket to the moon. Either the sale is anounced and price will skyrocket, or it flashcrash and price wil recover to the current price in few weeks. I can't imagine better lottery ticket than this. Anyway, I am bubble beliver, I belive there will be multiple crypto bubbles. There is no reason to panic on short term price drop, if you hold trusted long term coin. Karm seems to be longterm, and it seems it will be there for many years. This is the most important part. To hold coins with future. Many will die, and those which will stay will be 1000x more expensive in future. This is the reason I have been buying karm last week again. I belive in sale of lill.com and if I am wrong, I will get my money back later.
Lol.... most of the coin holders will jump the ship, if there is no sale. I hope there will be no sale and only the true believers of Karma team who has enough patience will get any profits in the future. Currently, most of the so called holders are only holding because of the very low price, not because of the love or belief in the Karma coin. People who have belief in the coin and team already took the risk and exchanged their coins for shares in the LLC. Only the believers(risk takers) should get the rewards and that is the right Karma, not some exchanges who hold other peoples coins in their wallet. So, I really really hope there will be no Lill sale and then we can see the true supporters for the coin.
Actually I think for most companies where people are able to buy shares at any time there is a a time between the announcement and when new share holders are no longer eligible for the dividend.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend#Dividend_dates
EDIT.. having given it some more thought I decided to reword this post and put it into point form instead of rambling incoherently lolz.
1) it is wrong to assume that the "record date" and "ex-dividend" have to be a dates some time after an announcement.. they can be and often are within days of any special dividend announcement (sometimes even prior to the announcement date)
2) it is unwise to assume that if any such announcement was made that you would have enough grace period to collect shares so that you can become eligible for a dividend and profit from it. this is because typically as soon as announcement of a dividend is made the price corrects very quickly to include that dividend. Since Karmashares have no "price" this price correction will likely be reflected in Karma so unless you are willing to watch your computer screen 24 hours a day you are likely to miss the boat if your intention is to profit from a dividend announcement (which may or may not happen)
3) it would be unwise to announce a special dividend and return the bulk of any moneys from the sale of LIL.COM to Karmashares holders.
firstly this will create panic buying and an administrative nightmare if people try to dump their Karmashares after the dividend payment is received.
and secondly because the money would be better spent invested in new projects and growing the company.
4) as I have said many times.. Karmashares is an LLC not a corporation so it is wrong for anyone (including myself) to assume that all the laws and SEC trading rules governing corporations are equally applied to an LLC. In many cases they are, but experience has taught me that when dealing with crypto currency based investments you may not get the outcomes you would expect had you invested in a registered security.
1. I agree. I'm not assuming it HAS to be, I'm just saying it normally is, contrary to your statement. It sounded like you were referring to general dividends not special dividends. A special dividend is indicating that it is a one off payment, which I don't think would be the desired implication from a dividend declaration.
I also disagree with your statement that special dividends "often" (assuming that means more often than not) have no or a smaller time frame between announcement and the ex-dividend date. I would expect them to normally have a standard if not larger time frame because it is out of the ordinary, people need more time to process it. Anyways like I said I don't think it will be a dividend announcement at all.
2. I agree. Karmashare prices are fixed to Karma. I'm not suggesting that people don't buy Karma (or that people do or don't do anything for that matter). The question is whether the conversion of Karma to Karmashares will be allowable. I have indicated that it should be allowed and on that basis is likely. There are benefits of this to Karmashare holders too, don't forget if people can convert to partake in a dividend more people will buy Karma for converting it into Karmashares. This will create upward price pressure on Karma which will increase the value of Karmshares LLC because it has such large holdings.
3. I agree however I think that is what will happen if the sale proceeds. I will in fact argue very strongly that the dividend should be over multiple periods and a large portion of the funds should be retained.
4. I agree. I can only state what should happen (ethically, legally, etc) or what I think will happen. The outcome may not be right or what I expect because it is up to other people's determination not mine...and I suppose there is a possibility I'm wrong about what should happen too.
Then what happens with people who have tens of millions of coins and still can't figure out how to get their payment information recorded (BTC address)? Now you're "a shareholder" but you're also not, being that your information still isn't on the record.
It's important things like this that we need to get locked down ASAP to ensure we're not being screwed over by a technicality that we have absolutely no control over.
It's important things like this that we need to get locked down ASAP to ensure we're not being screwed over by a technicality that we have absolutely no control over.
I'm sure there will be a large period of time between the date it is declared and when you can no longer make a claim to partake in the dividend. Although everyone is talking about technicalities I think as much will be done as possible to make it as fair as possible.
Actually I think for most companies where people are able to buy shares at any time there is a a time between the announcement and when new share holders are no longer eligible for the dividend.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend#Dividend_dates
this statement is flat out wrong.. I have been investing for more than a decade so I can speak with some degree of experience having received many dividends both in the US and AUS markets.
please re-read the wiki you posted.
if you buy shares AFTER a special dividend is announced then you are usually not illegible for that dividend. This is because the "Record Date" is typically the same date as the announcement (or within a few days, usually prior). it is extremely rare for example for a company to announce a special dividend and then say "oh but the record date is in one months time".
Note that this kind of practices is done typically to stop people rushing to buy shares only to collect a dividend and then dumping immediately afterwards.
Sure you can be eligible for future dividend if they are announced at a later date but you are only guaranteed to get a dividend if you are a shareholder before each announcement.
I want to make it very clear that I am talking about Special dividends here (ie dividends which are declared after a particular event) rather than recurring/regular dividends that a company may choose to issue on a quarterly or yearly basis.
Since Karmashares LLC has no history of issuing regular dividends it is a given that any dividend announcement is likely to be a special dividend.. (i.e. a one off or series of one offs.)
as quoted by the wiki.
Quote
Declaration date is the day the Board of Directors announces its intention to pay a dividend. On this day, a liability is created and the company records that liability on its books; it now owes the money to the stockholders. On the declaration date, the Board will also announce a date of record and a payment date.
Ex-dividend date (typically 2 trading days before the record date for U.S. securities) is the day on which all shares bought and sold no longer come attached with the right to be paid the most recently declared dividend.
Record date Shareholders registered in the stockholders of record on or before the date of record will receive the dividend. Shareholders who are not registered as of this date will not receive the dividend. Registration in most countries is essentially automatic for shares purchased before the ex-dividend date.
Ex-dividend date (typically 2 trading days before the record date for U.S. securities) is the day on which all shares bought and sold no longer come attached with the right to be paid the most recently declared dividend.
Record date Shareholders registered in the stockholders of record on or before the date of record will receive the dividend. Shareholders who are not registered as of this date will not receive the dividend. Registration in most countries is essentially automatic for shares purchased before the ex-dividend date.
In any case whether or not the record date is set after the announcement date for any dividend, as soon as the announcement is made the price or Karma will correct upwards to "price in" any dividend payment.
this will make it more expensive for people to "buy in" and profit from any payouts.
it will also make it harder for Karmashares LLC if people start dumping after a dividend because there is no way to exit karmashares other than to ask Kosmost for a refund.
which could turn out to be an administrative nightmare.
that's not to say that there isn't an administrative nightmare already brewing.... just saying that the best way to deal with the issue of any windfall is to keep most of the money for development and give regular but small dividends back to the karmashares holders.
just my opinion of course but I don't see how announcing a dividend and then allowing a grace period so that hoards of people can "buy in" with hopes of participating in the payout is going to help Karma or Karmashares LLC in the long run.
no doubt the volatility will help traders like me though.. so feel free to ignore everything I just said lolz.
Then what happens with people who have tens of millions of coins and still can't figure out how to get their payment information recorded (BTC address)? Now you're "a shareholder" but you're also not, being that your information still isn't on the record.
It's important things like this that we need to get locked down ASAP to ensure we're not being screwed over by a technicality that we have absolutely no control over.
Actually I think for most companies where people are able to buy shares at any time there is a a time between the announcement and when new share holders are no longer eligible for the dividend.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend#Dividend_dates
EDIT.. having given it some more thought I decided to reword this post and put it into point form instead of rambling incoherently lolz.
1) it is wrong to assume that the "record date" and "ex-dividend" have to be a dates some time after an announcement.. they can be and often are within days of any special dividend announcement (sometimes even prior to the announcement date)
2) it is unwise to assume that if any such announcement was made that you would have enough grace period to collect shares so that you can become eligible for a dividend and profit from it. this is because typically as soon as announcement of a dividend is made the price corrects very quickly to include that dividend. Since Karmashares have no "price" this price correction will likely be reflected in Karma so unless you are willing to watch your computer screen 24 hours a day you are likely to miss the boat if your intention is to profit from a dividend announcement (which may or may not happen)
3) it would be unwise to announce a special dividend and return the bulk of any moneys from the sale of LIL.COM to Karmashares holders.
firstly this will create panic buying and an administrative nightmare if people try to dump their Karmashares after the dividend payment is received.
and secondly because the money would be better spent invested in new projects and growing the company.
4) as I have said many times.. Karmashares is an LLC not a corporation so it is wrong for anyone (including myself) to assume that all the laws and SEC trading rules governing corporations are equally applied to an LLC. In many cases they are, but experience has taught me that when dealing with crypto currency based investments you may not get the outcomes you would expect had you invested in a registered security.
Better to wait 1 Sept and see the announcement ,then we can talk ... there are around 2 days before ...
Then be prepared for the possibility of paying much more for your shares ;-)
Easteagle and other wrote to make your decision,they explained everything,the rest is on the websites that easteagle wrote it ... what you want more.
Make your own decision.Is simple.
All of us are waiting for the news why some of you need to be different ?
Yes. Everything you said is right.
I just said that it may not be a good decision to wait before the news to buy shares (or by other words... that maybe it is better to buy before the news), because the price of Karma may go dramatically up after the news... if they are good of course
yes, also when a dividend is announced.. the dividend is usually payable to people who were holding "shares" before the announcement date.. this is why people are trying to figure out where they stand before any announcement.
I think it would be silly to not clarify the issue of who owns what before announcing any kind of dividend.
that being said.. we do not know if the announcement on monday will have anything to do with a dividend or even confirm a sale of assets.
usually when there is a sale of assets the buyer has 30 days to pay. so that may give Karmashares people the time they need to decide who is a member and how to pay out any moneys.
but all this is just speculation on my part.
at this point I do not know if the offer to buy lil.com was genuine.
please everyone don't get too greedy and please trade and/or comment with caution.
remember nothing is guaranteed until a deal is signed and the money delivered.
it is very difficult to tell the difference between someone who is unsure of what they are talking about and someone who is spreading FUD to benefit their own position, so please be careful and don't believe everything you see posted in forums.
Actually I think for most companies where people are able to buy shares at any time there is a time between the announcement and when new share holders are no longer eligible for the dividend. I think it is unlikely the announcement will be for a dividend anyways because such a large decision really should be taken to the shareholders if it is for more than half of the companies value.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend#Dividend_dates
I don't think people with Karma will lose their rights for up to 1x for holding Karma or to convert at 1.75x before a dividend because they have always been advised they have those rights. To take those rights away to further advantage people that made the "correct" decision would not be "more fair". Even people that converted at 1.75x a month ago are not being disadvantaged by allowing Karma holders to convert because they knew at that time that Karma holders could convert in the future. A Company founded with Karma should be held to the highest of ethical standards, or in other words not make decisions that are bad karma.
The Company's stated objective is:
Quote from: http://karmashares.com/
It is currently forming in the state of Wyoming, USA, for purposes of creating long term value for holders of Karma by developing revenue-generating products and services.
Holders of Karma, not Karmashares. While Karmashares is implicit, nobody can say that Karma holders should not be a major consideration in decisions made.
Thinking about setting up a local p2pool node and I need some help :/
The anouncement will be on monday, this is to make sure people who buy shares after the anouncement dont get dividents of what is coming.
In my eyes, there will be a sale. But who am i, i am a dutch guy with karmacoin acting like i know stuff. So, lets just wait
In my eyes, there will be a sale. But who am i, i am a dutch guy with karmacoin acting like i know stuff. So, lets just wait
Better to wait 1 Sept and see the announcement ,then we can talk ... there are around 2 days before ...
Then be prepared for the possibility of paying much more for your shares ;-)
Easteagle and other wrote to make your decision,they explained everything,the rest is on the websites that easteagle wrote it ... what you want more.
Make your own decision.Is simple.
All of us are waiting for the news why some of you need to be different ?
Yes. Everything you said is right.
I just said that it may not be a good decision to wait before the news to buy shares (or by other words... that maybe it is better to buy before the news), because the price of Karma may go dramatically up after the news... if they are good of course
yes, also when a dividend is announced.. the dividend is usually payable to people who were holding "shares" before the announcement date.. this is why people are trying to figure out where they stand before any announcement.
I think it would be silly to not clarify the issue of who owns what before announcing any kind of dividend.
that being said.. we do not know if the announcement on monday will have anything to do with a dividend or even confirm a sale of assets.
usually when there is a sale of assets the buyer has 30 days to pay. so that may give Karmashares people the time they need to decide who is a member and how to pay out any moneys.
but all this is just speculation on my part.
at this point I do not know if the offer to buy lil.com was genuine.
please everyone don't get too greedy and please trade and/or comment with caution.
remember nothing is guaranteed until a deal is signed and the money delivered.
it is very difficult to tell the difference between someone who is unsure of what they are talking about and someone who is spreading FUD to benefit their own position, so please be careful and don't believe everything you see posted in forums.
Better to wait 1 Sept and see the announcement ,then we can talk ... there are around 2 days before ...
Then be prepared for the possibility of paying much more for your shares ;-)
Easteagle and other wrote to make your decision,they explained everything,the rest is on the websites that easteagle wrote it ... what you want more.
Make your own decision.Is simple.
All of us are waiting for the news why some of you need to be different ?
Yes. Everything you said is right.
I just said that it may not be a good decision to wait before the news to buy shares (or by other words... that maybe it is better to buy before the news), because the price of Karma may go dramatically up after the news... if they are good of course
Better to wait 1 Sept and see the announcement ,then we can talk ... there are around 2 days before ...
Then be prepared for the possibility of paying much more for your shares ;-)
Easteagle and other wrote to make your decision,they explained everything,the rest is on the websites that easteagle wrote it ... what you want more.
Make your own decision.Is simple.
All of us are waiting for the news why some of you need to be different ?
Better to wait 1 Sept and see the announcement ,then we can talk ... there are around 2 days before ...
Then be prepared for the possibility of paying much more for your shares ;-)
Better to wait 1 Sept and see the announcement ,then we can talk ... there are around 2 days before ...
I bought 11 million coins on Mintpal and transferred them to my wallet on July 24th. I am still holding it has been well over a month. So do I get shares? I should, right?
You need to keep 10 million in your wallet, not 5 like you say. 1. The questionable assumption left is the 2,75x combo. All others were addressed by alphi I see.
2. I thought the minimum was reduced to 5 million Karma some time ago.
Let's wait for someone from the Karma team to answer these questions.
Answers to the Numbered Questions:
1. This is not possible, the eligibility for 1X for the coins kept in the wallet will end as soon as the coins is MOVED or transferred (even in exchange for karmashares LLC share points)
2. The minimum amount of coins that can be exchanged is reduced to 5Million which will be computed at 1.75X. http://karmashares.com/
-east
As far as I understand it correctly, If I miss 30 days period for KARM coin holding, I will still be able to echange my coins whole September for KarmaShares and still get the same profit as any other Karmashares holder, right? So I can hold my coins in wallet since today and decide on 29 of september whether I want to exchange them for Shares or just keep them and wait for coin payout.
You need to keep 10 million in your wallet, not 5 like you say. 1. The questionable assumption left is the 2,75x combo. All others were addressed by alphi I see.
2. I thought the minimum was reduced to 5 million Karma some time ago.
Let's wait for someone from the Karma team to answer these questions.
Answers to the Numbered Questions:
1. This is not possible, the eligibility for 1X for the coins kept in the wallet will end as soon as the coins is MOVED or transferred (even in exchange for karmashares LLC share points)
2. The minimum amount of coins that can be exchanged is reduced to 5Million which will be computed at 1.75X. http://karmashares.com/
-east
I have half of mine Karma holded for 6 months (more than 10mln) and other half holded for 3 months.
1. Let's say I will withdraw half to buy Karmashares today and the rest will still be in my wallet.
2. So if my half == 10mln Karmas then I will buy 17500 Karmashares (?yes?)
3. Will I still be eligible to recieve profits by holding my second half of Karmas in wallet despite I would withdraw some today?
1. Let's say I will withdraw half to buy Karmashares today and the rest will still be in my wallet.
2. So if my half == 10mln Karmas then I will buy 17500 Karmashares (?yes?)
3. Will I still be eligible to recieve profits by holding my second half of Karmas in wallet despite I would withdraw some today?
Answers to numbered Questions above:
1. Possible, no problem
2. 10 000 000 = 10 000 share points ( NOT SHARES ) X 1. 75= 17500 share points YES THIS IS RIGHT (as exchanged to LLC shares)
3. If the remaining coins is 10 Million and above, yes, you are eligible for profit share. http://karmashares.com/
-east
Quote
Can I Become a Shareholder Without Exchanging Coins?
Of course. Starting around May 11 if you keep 10,000,000 coins in your wallet for 30+ days you'll automatically be eligible for membership. (In fact, we'll put you down as a shareholder even if you forget to notify us.) The exact date this will begin will be posted to this website.
Of course. Starting around May 11 if you keep 10,000,000 coins in your wallet for 30+ days you'll automatically be eligible for membership. (In fact, we'll put you down as a shareholder even if you forget to notify us.) The exact date this will begin will be posted to this website.
I would suggest that someone updates the website if this is not the case.
OK. Now I'm confused...
Please someone from the Karmashares team... clarify this...
Anyway I think they will only be regarded as shareholders for the period they holded the coins.
They are like temporary shares.
What you read from KARMASHARES.COM are the official policies at the moment UNTIL AMENDED BY THE SHAREHOLDERS.
Who are the shareholders/members as defined by karmashares LLC? Everyone with 10Million Karma kept in their wallet for at least 30 days as of the SUBJECT DATE and everyone who exchanged their coins (5M minimum) for karmashares in our LLC. This arrangement started from MAY 11, 2014 until amendment. http://karmashares.com/ Please read the questions and answers.
What is the thing referred to by: "The exact date this will begin will be posted to this website" is the sentence before it. "In fact we'll put you down as a shareholder even if you forget to notify us" Why? Because the back end to realize that efficiently is not yet in place. So at this time, you can keep 10M and be eligible for the quarter's profit share but the process will be done manually (you have to send the address you kept your 10M and LLC can check the transactions done on that address.), This is under consideration for changes after September 01, 2014. As shown by the posts in our home forum. http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,559.msg3377.html#msg3377
Will it be possible for you to end your profit share eligibility? Yes when you move you coins and transfer it somewhere. So the earning of 2.75X by keeping the coins for 30 days and then transferring them to LLC is not really true. (You end one by beginning the other)
-east
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