[ANN][KARM] Karmacoin - New Initiatives - Helping People Do Good - page 160.

CryptoAddict

member

Activity: 115

Merit: 10

Quote from: mison on February 18, 2014, 05:47:07 AM

I do not know, if is karma in trouble, dogecoin and lot of coins have the same issue, but it is not fair at all. If it is not truly random, it is better to mine fixed value. But it is only my opinion. Because if I expecting daily reward 4M and I will receive 1,4M, it is weird. Random block in the dogecoin was because doge was made as a fun coin.

I have noticed the same.. I can set set my miners and end up with actual result about 75% lower than the expected amount. This is also from constant KGW diff fluctuations, not only because of random block reward.

What is the reasoning behind having random block reward anyway? Is it just to add some element of lotto,gambling,randomness to the coin? It doesn't fit the theme of the coin and if it can be abused it needs to be removed or modified fast.

mison

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 250

Quote from: nrg_wolf on February 18, 2014, 04:44:30 AM

Quote from: mison on February 18, 2014, 04:23:22 AM

Quote from: trigeek on February 18, 2014, 04:15:57 AM

Quote from: CryptoMF on February 17, 2014, 11:26:58 PM

Please do your research, I did.

Last 24 hour average block size for pools: From 8 pm 2/16/14 to 8 pm 2/17/14 (PST timezone)

karma.hashstrike.com = 247 blocks/448009.8825910931 avg

http://pool.karmacoin.info = 237 blocks/456402.3839662447 avg

http://karm.idcray.com = 103 blocks/717014.3203883495 avg

For a total average of 587 blocks/498600.1379897785 avg

That is where the hell my claim comes from. I don't want to argue but please research first. This is way out of the range of luck isn't it? The attacker is getting massive block sizes somehow compared to the pools.

Well, I think I figured it out, and there's basically nothing that could be done besides changing the block rewards to a static value. I talked to someone with good knowledge of the dogecoin source code (which karmacoin was based off of) and, well, here you go...

Code:

00:39 < trigeek> the random seed for block rewards
00:39 < trigeek> it's solely derived from the previous block hash, yes?
00:39 < xxxxxxx> its not as random as you think it is ;)
00:39 < xxxxxxx> yup
00:39 < trigeek> well it can't be that random
00:39 < trigeek> otherwise nobody could agree on it
00:39 < xxxxxxx> yup
00:39 < xxxxxxx> there was some nifty bit of research done
00:40 < trigeek> so, you can determine what the next block's reward is, correct?
00:40 < xxxxxxx> yup
00:40 < trigeek> ok. thats what i thought
00:40 < xxxxxxx> there was the cool bit of code that could let a multipool know if the next payout was gonna be a X block
00:40 < xxxxxxx> like "oh the payout's gonna be 2" fuck that
00:40 < trigeek> that's that, then.

TL;DR - the multi-pool is switching their hash rate on and off based on what the reward of the next expected block is.

I wrote it here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5201798

If devs do not remove random reward soon, it will be worst. Because "chosen ones" abuse this "bug"

Is karma in trouble?

I do not know, if is karma in trouble, dogecoin and lot of coins have the same issue, but it is not fair at all. If it is not truly random, it is better to mine fixed value. But it is only my opinion. Because if I expecting daily reward 4M and I will receive 1,4M, it is weird. Random block in the dogecoin was because doge was made as a fun coin.

alexkravets

full member

Activity: 209

Merit: 100

Even if no code changes are done ... and things are left as they are ... it's not that big of a deal (assuming this is happening at all b/c looking at the difficulty lately it doesn't appear to be jumping much from block to block) This is because there is a random-part of payout's cut coming up from 1,500,000 to 1,000,000 in roughly 4 days and then in roughly 17 after that it gets cut down to 500,000

Each cut removes large part of the incentive for this type of behavior ... I think upcoming cuts will reduce ongoing miner dumping allowing existing demand to start pushing the price up ...

CryptoMF

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Quote from: nrg_wolf on February 18, 2014, 04:44:30 AM

Quote from: mison on February 18, 2014, 04:23:22 AM

Quote from: trigeek on February 18, 2014, 04:15:57 AM

Quote from: CryptoMF on February 17, 2014, 11:26:58 PM

Please do your research, I did.

Last 24 hour average block size for pools: From 8 pm 2/16/14 to 8 pm 2/17/14 (PST timezone)

karma.hashstrike.com = 247 blocks/448009.8825910931 avg

http://pool.karmacoin.info = 237 blocks/456402.3839662447 avg

http://karm.idcray.com = 103 blocks/717014.3203883495 avg

For a total average of 587 blocks/498600.1379897785 avg

That is where the hell my claim comes from. I don't want to argue but please research first. This is way out of the range of luck isn't it? The attacker is getting massive block sizes somehow compared to the pools.

Well, I think I figured it out, and there's basically nothing that could be done besides changing the block rewards to a static value. I talked to someone with good knowledge of the dogecoin source code (which karmacoin was based off of) and, well, here you go...

Code:

00:39 < trigeek> the random seed for block rewards
00:39 < trigeek> it's solely derived from the previous block hash, yes?
00:39 < xxxxxxx> its not as random as you think it is ;)
00:39 < xxxxxxx> yup
00:39 < trigeek> well it can't be that random
00:39 < trigeek> otherwise nobody could agree on it
00:39 < xxxxxxx> yup
00:39 < xxxxxxx> there was some nifty bit of research done
00:40 < trigeek> so, you can determine what the next block's reward is, correct?
00:40 < xxxxxxx> yup
00:40 < trigeek> ok. thats what i thought
00:40 < xxxxxxx> there was the cool bit of code that could let a multipool know if the next payout was gonna be a X block
00:40 < xxxxxxx> like "oh the payout's gonna be 2" fuck that
00:40 < trigeek> that's that, then.

TL;DR - the multi-pool is switching their hash rate on and off based on what the reward of the next expected block is.

I wrote it here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5201798

If devs do not remove random reward soon, it will be worst. Because "chosen ones" abuse this "bug"

Is karma in trouble?

That is a question only the devs can answer now....

nrg_wolf

legendary

Activity: 882

Merit: 1000

Quote from: mison on February 18, 2014, 04:23:22 AM

Quote from: trigeek on February 18, 2014, 04:15:57 AM

Quote from: CryptoMF on February 17, 2014, 11:26:58 PM

Please do your research, I did.

Last 24 hour average block size for pools: From 8 pm 2/16/14 to 8 pm 2/17/14 (PST timezone)

karma.hashstrike.com = 247 blocks/448009.8825910931 avg

http://pool.karmacoin.info = 237 blocks/456402.3839662447 avg

http://karm.idcray.com = 103 blocks/717014.3203883495 avg

For a total average of 587 blocks/498600.1379897785 avg

That is where the hell my claim comes from. I don't want to argue but please research first. This is way out of the range of luck isn't it? The attacker is getting massive block sizes somehow compared to the pools.

Well, I think I figured it out, and there's basically nothing that could be done besides changing the block rewards to a static value. I talked to someone with good knowledge of the dogecoin source code (which karmacoin was based off of) and, well, here you go...

Code:

00:39 < trigeek> the random seed for block rewards
00:39 < trigeek> it's solely derived from the previous block hash, yes?
00:39 < xxxxxxx> its not as random as you think it is ;)
00:39 < xxxxxxx> yup
00:39 < trigeek> well it can't be that random
00:39 < trigeek> otherwise nobody could agree on it
00:39 < xxxxxxx> yup
00:39 < xxxxxxx> there was some nifty bit of research done
00:40 < trigeek> so, you can determine what the next block's reward is, correct?
00:40 < xxxxxxx> yup
00:40 < trigeek> ok. thats what i thought
00:40 < xxxxxxx> there was the cool bit of code that could let a multipool know if the next payout was gonna be a X block
00:40 < xxxxxxx> like "oh the payout's gonna be 2" fuck that
00:40 < trigeek> that's that, then.

TL;DR - the multi-pool is switching their hash rate on and off based on what the reward of the next expected block is.

I wrote it here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5201798

If devs do not remove random reward soon, it will be worst. Because "chosen ones" abuse this "bug"

Is karma in trouble?

mison

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 250

Quote from: trigeek on February 18, 2014, 04:15:57 AM

Quote from: CryptoMF on February 17, 2014, 11:26:58 PM

Please do your research, I did.

Last 24 hour average block size for pools: From 8 pm 2/16/14 to 8 pm 2/17/14 (PST timezone)

karma.hashstrike.com = 247 blocks/448009.8825910931 avg

http://pool.karmacoin.info = 237 blocks/456402.3839662447 avg

http://karm.idcray.com = 103 blocks/717014.3203883495 avg

For a total average of 587 blocks/498600.1379897785 avg

That is where the hell my claim comes from. I don't want to argue but please research first. This is way out of the range of luck isn't it? The attacker is getting massive block sizes somehow compared to the pools.

Well, I think I figured it out, and there's basically nothing that could be done besides changing the block rewards to a static value. I talked to someone with good knowledge of the dogecoin source code (which karmacoin was based off of) and, well, here you go...

Code:

00:39 < trigeek> the random seed for block rewards
00:39 < trigeek> it's solely derived from the previous block hash, yes?
00:39 < xxxxxxx> its not as random as you think it is ;)
00:39 < xxxxxxx> yup
00:39 < trigeek> well it can't be that random
00:39 < trigeek> otherwise nobody could agree on it
00:39 < xxxxxxx> yup
00:39 < xxxxxxx> there was some nifty bit of research done
00:40 < trigeek> so, you can determine what the next block's reward is, correct?
00:40 < xxxxxxx> yup
00:40 < trigeek> ok. thats what i thought
00:40 < xxxxxxx> there was the cool bit of code that could let a multipool know if the next payout was gonna be a X block
00:40 < xxxxxxx> like "oh the payout's gonna be 2" fuck that
00:40 < trigeek> that's that, then.

TL;DR - the multi-pool is switching their hash rate on and off based on what the reward of the next expected block is.

I wrote it here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5201798

If devs do not remove random reward soon, it will be worst. Because "chosen ones" abuse this "bug"

mison

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 250

Quote from: CryptoMF on February 17, 2014, 11:26:58 PM

Quote from: matauc12 on February 17, 2014, 07:49:00 PM

Quote from: CryptoMF on February 17, 2014, 07:41:03 PM

Quote from: matauc12 on February 17, 2014, 03:37:27 PM

Quote from: bitwho on February 17, 2014, 03:18:13 PM

Quote from: Karmagood on February 17, 2014, 02:08:11 PM

Quote from: trigeek on February 17, 2014, 12:55:06 PM

Quote from: trcwhale on February 17, 2014, 12:29:22 PM

Quote from: roede94105 on February 17, 2014, 11:08:56 AM

Quote from: btcforthefuture on February 17, 2014, 11:05:51 AM

Quote from: roede94105 on February 17, 2014, 10:12:33 AM

Quote from: lasybear on February 17, 2014, 07:41:05 AM

I've a question.

Look's like a large private pool is connected to network...
At this time is 1400Mhs network hashrate.
pool.karmacoin.info - 387Mhs
karma.hashstrike.com - 296Mhs
other officially announced at start page ~ 10-20Mhs
Black hole: ~700Mhs
Next.
Block 17840-17845 generated by K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z with total amount of 4869397,001 KARMAs. 811566,1668 average per block. Higher than other pools... Ok...

Some investigations in block explorer...
http://explorer.karmacoin.info/tx/d02563e283e1b438b9d02c19bddcad584fd661384b8346bea625f41df3f936fe
K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z sent appx 27517929.016 to KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5
Ok...

Sent, sent and sent...
And voila:

Code:

Address KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5
Details
Balance	2589363996.56565243 KAR
Transactions in	742
Received	6955117377.22357766 KAR
Transactions out	336
Sent	4365753380.65792523 KAR

omg... 2.6 billion... 77btc at 3e-8...

And yes, only K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z sent to KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5.

May be I'm wrong, but...

And now my question: is it possible 51% attack at KARMA network?

add/
From block 18100 to 18143 all blocks with reward > 1mio except one was generated by K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z, and smallest reward was appx 0.65mio.
So lucky )))

That worries me a lot. Someone could enlighten us?

lol that address almost has 16% of all KARM in existence on it lol

Feels like the devs knew the algo and how to highly increase the chances of getting the bonus rewards, or that someone found a way to do so. If it's the devs, it starts to make sense as to why the bonus rewards are so high..

I think dev needs some explaining to do here.

This wouldn't surprise me if it was true.

The algorithm is right there in the source code:

Code:

int static generateMTRandom(unsigned int s, int range)
{
        random::mt19937 gen(s);
    random::uniform_int_distribution<> dist(1, range);
    return dist(gen);
}

...

        if (maxRand != 0) {
                double rand = generateMTRandom(seed, maxRand);
                bonus = rand * COIN;
        }

        return nSubsidy + bonus + nFees;

It's a standard random number generator. They just got lucky with those blocks. As for the devs being involved with that miner.. they're not. I've spoken privately with them about it and they don't know who it is. There's no way to tell who it is, but it's clearly someone who saw a huge opportunity with karmacoin. That 700MH has been there for a LONG time now, and it has STAYED on almost the whole time. They could be mining a lot of other coins with that hash rate, but they're mining karma.

I certainly hope they don't dump all those coin at once, because it would decimate the market... but I think they're smarter than that. If they have 70BTC+ worth at 3 satoshi, they have to be thinking about what is going to happen if it hits some real exchanges.

It is not the definitely not the dev (my team)! The person (group, multiminer, etc) who has been mining it has a farm with between 700MH to 1GH, and they have been mining it consistently. That is upwards of $1M USD in equipment with an enormous electric bill (probably 40-50K USD). I am basing those estimates on what I pay for 2MH but it should be close. They definitely see a big upside to the coin and the community, as we do as well. Given their scale I don't see why this person would sell now or sell in a hurry (i.e. there is no way they are hurting for cash if they had enough to buy 1M of equipment).

As far as the code and the algorithm, there isn't a way to game it to get more lucky. The source code is here at https://github.com/karmacoin-team/karmacoin, the file that has the algorithm is src/main.cpp. Also the algorithm is pretty much the same as used by DOGE for the randomness so it's been beat up and proven over the past several months of their existence.

http://explorer.karmacoin.info/address/KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5 shows over 7 billion coins recieved and over 4 billion coins sent. i would believe this coin is an exchange. possibly coinmarket wallet address where all of us sent out coins to them.

What is strange about this is that K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z this address keeps sending out the coins to KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5

we need to figure out what the hell is going on.

It's obvious it's an exchange wallet.

We don't really need to figure out much. There is a big miner making money. Same as the little miners. He just has a lot. Too bad for you

Too bad for us all as they are tanking the price. They don't care about the coin just about making money to pay for their massive equipment and power bills. Not sure whether we should be flattered they chose Karmacoin or afraid of what's to come. There seems to be buyers at a price that makes it profitable to mine so that is a big plus...even at the rate we are creating new coins (which is very high right now).

If they are sending most of the coins to an exchange to sell then that may help to explain the massive sell positions at the 3,4,and 5 sat levels on all the exchanges. I am more concerned about what seems to be unfair average block rewards for them. Why are the seeing over 800,000 coins per block when all the pools are only seeing less than 500,000 coins per block over the last 24 hours. This to me is hard to explain with just luck and randomness. Dev's please explain how this can be? Almost double the payout per block is way out of the range of pure luck. Especially spread out over 24 hours. This is very disconcerting. It is bad enough they are getting all the blocks but getting all the good blocks as well is too much.

There is nothing wrong with mining the most profitable coin. It means equilibrium isn't reached. It's all a natural process at this point.

And I don't know where the hell your claim about the block rewards inequity comes from. Looking at the top 3 pools blocks found, only a very few are under 500k.

Please do your research, I did.

Last 24 hour average block size for pools: From 8 pm 2/16/14 to 8 pm 2/17/14 (PST timezone)

karma.hashstrike.com = 247 blocks/448009.8825910931 avg

http://pool.karmacoin.info = 237 blocks/456402.3839662447 avg

http://karm.idcray.com = 103 blocks/717014.3203883495 avg

For a total average of 587 blocks/498600.1379897785 avg

That is where the hell my claim comes from. I don't want to argue but please research first. This is way out of the range of luck isn't it? The attacker is getting massive block sizes somehow compared to the pools.

http://pool.karmacoin.info =

No luck at all I think. If you have big hash power, and you know witch block is worth to mine, you just point your power on the network at the right time. And look, 1M+ blocks. Or he can do 51% attack. I do not think Karma is most profitable. I have 5khs rig and I have barely 1,5M karma per day. because common pools mine just shitty amount blocks like is written above. Something fishy is about this coin. And worst is I believed a lot this coin.

trigeek

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Quote from: CryptoMF on February 17, 2014, 11:26:58 PM

Please do your research, I did.

Last 24 hour average block size for pools: From 8 pm 2/16/14 to 8 pm 2/17/14 (PST timezone)

karma.hashstrike.com = 247 blocks/448009.8825910931 avg

http://pool.karmacoin.info = 237 blocks/456402.3839662447 avg

http://karm.idcray.com = 103 blocks/717014.3203883495 avg

For a total average of 587 blocks/498600.1379897785 avg

That is where the hell my claim comes from. I don't want to argue but please research first. This is way out of the range of luck isn't it? The attacker is getting massive block sizes somehow compared to the pools.

Well, I think I figured it out, and there's basically nothing that could be done besides changing the block rewards to a static value. I talked to someone with good knowledge of the dogecoin source code (which karmacoin was based off of) and, well, here you go...

Code:

00:39 < trigeek> the random seed for block rewards
00:39 < trigeek> it's solely derived from the previous block hash, yes?
00:39 < xxxxxxx> its not as random as you think it is ;)
00:39 < xxxxxxx> yup
00:39 < trigeek> well it can't be that random
00:39 < trigeek> otherwise nobody could agree on it
00:39 < xxxxxxx> yup
00:39 < xxxxxxx> there was some nifty bit of research done
00:40 < trigeek> so, you can determine what the next block's reward is, correct?
00:40 < xxxxxxx> yup
00:40 < trigeek> ok. thats what i thought
00:40 < xxxxxxx> there was the cool bit of code that could let a multipool know if the next payout was gonna be a X block
00:40 < xxxxxxx> like "oh the payout's gonna be 2" fuck that
00:40 < trigeek> that's that, then.

TL;DR - the multi-pool is switching their hash rate on and off based on what the reward of the next expected block is.

CryptoMF

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Quote from: bitwho on February 18, 2014, 03:57:47 AM

my guess is they didnt update their wallets . they they are mining old wallets.. aka worthless coins

hmmmm..very possible but if so that would be pretty lame as the wallet upgrade was pretty easy...Although there was two upgrades in quick succession so maybe they missed it. It wouldn't make sense for the attacker to do this as their coins would lose value if they did.

nrg_wolf

legendary

Activity: 882

Merit: 1000

i hope Karma gains alittle value soon, need to be beable to run around a small profit to cover bill usage. have had a terrible run with coins as of late :-/

bitwho

legendary

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1000

my guess is they didnt update their wallets . they they are mining old wallets.. aka worthless coins

CryptoMF

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Quote from: CryptoMF on February 18, 2014, 03:49:35 AM

Quote from: lasybear on February 18, 2014, 02:28:22 AM

Quote from: CryptoMF on February 17, 2014, 11:26:58 PM

Last 24 hour average block size for pools: From 8 pm 2/16/14 to 8 pm 2/17/14 (PST timezone)

karma.hashstrike.com = 247 blocks/448009.8825910931 avg

http://pool.karmacoin.info = 237 blocks/456402.3839662447 avg

http://karm.idcray.com = 103 blocks/717014.3203883495 avg

For a total average of 587 blocks/498600.1379897785 avg

That is where the hell my claim comes from. I don't want to argue but please research first. This is way out of the range of luck isn't it? The attacker is getting massive block sizes somehow compared to the pools.

Hmm... Don't understand... What a coin is mined by karm.idcray.com?

One miner with 1Mhs
Last Hour 34
Avg. Diff 0.0273
Amount 27659463

Seems looks like a fake...

If I knew better I might say we have a fork in the blockchain. But what do I know.... If we do I wonder who is on what fork?

It certainly looks like karm.idcray is on a different blockchain path. This is my guess after just going through this with DOgcoin. They were able to recover but it took awhile to sort out. Karmacoin is still small so it shouldn't be too hard to fix I would guess but I really know nothing about what this entails or means. Devs do you have control of this or is this just a false alarm?

CryptoMF

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Quote from: lasybear on February 18, 2014, 02:28:22 AM

Quote from: CryptoMF on February 17, 2014, 11:26:58 PM

Last 24 hour average block size for pools: From 8 pm 2/16/14 to 8 pm 2/17/14 (PST timezone)

karma.hashstrike.com = 247 blocks/448009.8825910931 avg

http://pool.karmacoin.info = 237 blocks/456402.3839662447 avg

http://karm.idcray.com = 103 blocks/717014.3203883495 avg

For a total average of 587 blocks/498600.1379897785 avg

That is where the hell my claim comes from. I don't want to argue but please research first. This is way out of the range of luck isn't it? The attacker is getting massive block sizes somehow compared to the pools.

Hmm... Don't understand... What a coin is mined by karm.idcray.com?

One miner with 1Mhs
Last Hour 34
Avg. Diff 0.0273
Amount 27659463

Seems looks like a fake...

If I knew better I might say we have a fork in the blockchain. But what do I know.... If we do I wonder who is on what fork?

lasybear

member

Activity: 113

Merit: 14

Quote from: CryptoMF on February 17, 2014, 11:26:58 PM

Last 24 hour average block size for pools: From 8 pm 2/16/14 to 8 pm 2/17/14 (PST timezone)

karma.hashstrike.com = 247 blocks/448009.8825910931 avg

http://pool.karmacoin.info = 237 blocks/456402.3839662447 avg

http://karm.idcray.com = 103 blocks/717014.3203883495 avg

For a total average of 587 blocks/498600.1379897785 avg

That is where the hell my claim comes from. I don't want to argue but please research first. This is way out of the range of luck isn't it? The attacker is getting massive block sizes somehow compared to the pools.

Hmm... Don't understand... What a coin is mined by karm.idcray.com?

One miner with 1Mhs
Last Hour 34
Avg. Diff 0.0273
Amount 27659463

Seems looks like a fake...

landslide

sr. member

Activity: 616

Merit: 251

Quote from: btcforthefuture on February 17, 2014, 06:10:46 PM

Quote from: chowmeow on February 17, 2014, 05:47:48 PM

Quote from: Poogasm on February 17, 2014, 05:31:35 PM

Quote from: MintPal-Jay on February 17, 2014, 05:23:24 PM

Guys, more of you need to give MintPal a try

. We're quickly improving our site and increasing our overall volume. We have one of the best UIs around, a very responsive site and highly professional support. Many have commented that we have been their best trading experience to date.

We were also first to list Karmacoin! There are plenty of KARM orders there waiting to be matched.

https://www.mintpal.com/market/KARM/BTC

Seriously, Mintpal rocks!

+1

yeah mintpal is great. Deserves way more KARM volume if you compare it to coinmarket.

I like Mintpal too... what's the promotion plan for KARM? The price is pretty low.

CryptoMF

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Quote from: matauc12 on February 17, 2014, 07:49:00 PM

Quote from: CryptoMF on February 17, 2014, 07:41:03 PM

Quote from: matauc12 on February 17, 2014, 03:37:27 PM

Quote from: bitwho on February 17, 2014, 03:18:13 PM

Quote from: Karmagood on February 17, 2014, 02:08:11 PM

Quote from: trigeek on February 17, 2014, 12:55:06 PM

Quote from: trcwhale on February 17, 2014, 12:29:22 PM

Quote from: roede94105 on February 17, 2014, 11:08:56 AM

Quote from: btcforthefuture on February 17, 2014, 11:05:51 AM

Quote from: roede94105 on February 17, 2014, 10:12:33 AM

Quote from: lasybear on February 17, 2014, 07:41:05 AM

I've a question.

Look's like a large private pool is connected to network...
At this time is 1400Mhs network hashrate.
pool.karmacoin.info - 387Mhs
karma.hashstrike.com - 296Mhs
other officially announced at start page ~ 10-20Mhs
Black hole: ~700Mhs
Next.
Block 17840-17845 generated by K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z with total amount of 4869397,001 KARMAs. 811566,1668 average per block. Higher than other pools... Ok...

Some investigations in block explorer...
http://explorer.karmacoin.info/tx/d02563e283e1b438b9d02c19bddcad584fd661384b8346bea625f41df3f936fe
K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z sent appx 27517929.016 to KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5
Ok...

Sent, sent and sent...
And voila:

Code:

Address KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5
Details
Balance	2589363996.56565243 KAR
Transactions in	742
Received	6955117377.22357766 KAR
Transactions out	336
Sent	4365753380.65792523 KAR

omg... 2.6 billion... 77btc at 3e-8...

And yes, only K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z sent to KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5.

May be I'm wrong, but...

And now my question: is it possible 51% attack at KARMA network?

add/
From block 18100 to 18143 all blocks with reward > 1mio except one was generated by K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z, and smallest reward was appx 0.65mio.
So lucky )))

That worries me a lot. Someone could enlighten us?

lol that address almost has 16% of all KARM in existence on it lol

Feels like the devs knew the algo and how to highly increase the chances of getting the bonus rewards, or that someone found a way to do so. If it's the devs, it starts to make sense as to why the bonus rewards are so high..

I think dev needs some explaining to do here.

This wouldn't surprise me if it was true.

The algorithm is right there in the source code:

Code:

int static generateMTRandom(unsigned int s, int range)
{
        random::mt19937 gen(s);
    random::uniform_int_distribution<> dist(1, range);
    return dist(gen);
}

...

        if (maxRand != 0) {
                double rand = generateMTRandom(seed, maxRand);
                bonus = rand * COIN;
        }

        return nSubsidy + bonus + nFees;

It's a standard random number generator. They just got lucky with those blocks. As for the devs being involved with that miner.. they're not. I've spoken privately with them about it and they don't know who it is. There's no way to tell who it is, but it's clearly someone who saw a huge opportunity with karmacoin. That 700MH has been there for a LONG time now, and it has STAYED on almost the whole time. They could be mining a lot of other coins with that hash rate, but they're mining karma.

I certainly hope they don't dump all those coin at once, because it would decimate the market... but I think they're smarter than that. If they have 70BTC+ worth at 3 satoshi, they have to be thinking about what is going to happen if it hits some real exchanges.

It is not the definitely not the dev (my team)! The person (group, multiminer, etc) who has been mining it has a farm with between 700MH to 1GH, and they have been mining it consistently. That is upwards of $1M USD in equipment with an enormous electric bill (probably 40-50K USD). I am basing those estimates on what I pay for 2MH but it should be close. They definitely see a big upside to the coin and the community, as we do as well. Given their scale I don't see why this person would sell now or sell in a hurry (i.e. there is no way they are hurting for cash if they had enough to buy 1M of equipment).

As far as the code and the algorithm, there isn't a way to game it to get more lucky. The source code is here at https://github.com/karmacoin-team/karmacoin, the file that has the algorithm is src/main.cpp. Also the algorithm is pretty much the same as used by DOGE for the randomness so it's been beat up and proven over the past several months of their existence.

http://explorer.karmacoin.info/address/KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5 shows over 7 billion coins recieved and over 4 billion coins sent. i would believe this coin is an exchange. possibly coinmarket wallet address where all of us sent out coins to them.

What is strange about this is that K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z this address keeps sending out the coins to KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5

we need to figure out what the hell is going on.

It's obvious it's an exchange wallet.

We don't really need to figure out much. There is a big miner making money. Same as the little miners. He just has a lot. Too bad for you

Too bad for us all as they are tanking the price. They don't care about the coin just about making money to pay for their massive equipment and power bills. Not sure whether we should be flattered they chose Karmacoin or afraid of what's to come. There seems to be buyers at a price that makes it profitable to mine so that is a big plus...even at the rate we are creating new coins (which is very high right now).

If they are sending most of the coins to an exchange to sell then that may help to explain the massive sell positions at the 3,4,and 5 sat levels on all the exchanges. I am more concerned about what seems to be unfair average block rewards for them. Why are the seeing over 800,000 coins per block when all the pools are only seeing less than 500,000 coins per block over the last 24 hours. This to me is hard to explain with just luck and randomness. Dev's please explain how this can be? Almost double the payout per block is way out of the range of pure luck. Especially spread out over 24 hours. This is very disconcerting. It is bad enough they are getting all the blocks but getting all the good blocks as well is too much.

There is nothing wrong with mining the most profitable coin. It means equilibrium isn't reached. It's all a natural process at this point.

And I don't know where the hell your claim about the block rewards inequity comes from. Looking at the top 3 pools blocks found, only a very few are under 500k.

Please do your research, I did.

Last 24 hour average block size for pools: From 8 pm 2/16/14 to 8 pm 2/17/14 (PST timezone)

karma.hashstrike.com = 247 blocks/448009.8825910931 avg

http://pool.karmacoin.info = 237 blocks/456402.3839662447 avg

http://karm.idcray.com = 103 blocks/717014.3203883495 avg

For a total average of 587 blocks/498600.1379897785 avg

That is where the hell my claim comes from. I don't want to argue but please research first. This is way out of the range of luck isn't it? The attacker is getting massive block sizes somehow compared to the pools.

http://pool.karmacoin.info =

matauc12

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 500

Quote from: CryptoMF on February 17, 2014, 07:41:03 PM

Quote from: matauc12 on February 17, 2014, 03:37:27 PM

Quote from: bitwho on February 17, 2014, 03:18:13 PM

Quote from: Karmagood on February 17, 2014, 02:08:11 PM

Quote from: trigeek on February 17, 2014, 12:55:06 PM

Quote from: trcwhale on February 17, 2014, 12:29:22 PM

Quote from: roede94105 on February 17, 2014, 11:08:56 AM

Quote from: btcforthefuture on February 17, 2014, 11:05:51 AM

Quote from: roede94105 on February 17, 2014, 10:12:33 AM

Quote from: lasybear on February 17, 2014, 07:41:05 AM

I've a question.

Look's like a large private pool is connected to network...
At this time is 1400Mhs network hashrate.
pool.karmacoin.info - 387Mhs
karma.hashstrike.com - 296Mhs
other officially announced at start page ~ 10-20Mhs
Black hole: ~700Mhs
Next.
Block 17840-17845 generated by K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z with total amount of 4869397,001 KARMAs. 811566,1668 average per block. Higher than other pools... Ok...

Some investigations in block explorer...
http://explorer.karmacoin.info/tx/d02563e283e1b438b9d02c19bddcad584fd661384b8346bea625f41df3f936fe
K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z sent appx 27517929.016 to KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5
Ok...

Sent, sent and sent...
And voila:

Code:

Address KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5
Details
Balance	2589363996.56565243 KAR
Transactions in	742
Received	6955117377.22357766 KAR
Transactions out	336
Sent	4365753380.65792523 KAR

omg... 2.6 billion... 77btc at 3e-8...

And yes, only K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z sent to KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5.

May be I'm wrong, but...

And now my question: is it possible 51% attack at KARMA network?

add/
From block 18100 to 18143 all blocks with reward > 1mio except one was generated by K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z, and smallest reward was appx 0.65mio.
So lucky )))

That worries me a lot. Someone could enlighten us?

lol that address almost has 16% of all KARM in existence on it lol

Feels like the devs knew the algo and how to highly increase the chances of getting the bonus rewards, or that someone found a way to do so. If it's the devs, it starts to make sense as to why the bonus rewards are so high..

I think dev needs some explaining to do here.

This wouldn't surprise me if it was true.

The algorithm is right there in the source code:

Code:

int static generateMTRandom(unsigned int s, int range)
{
        random::mt19937 gen(s);
    random::uniform_int_distribution<> dist(1, range);
    return dist(gen);
}

...

        if (maxRand != 0) {
                double rand = generateMTRandom(seed, maxRand);
                bonus = rand * COIN;
        }

        return nSubsidy + bonus + nFees;

It's a standard random number generator. They just got lucky with those blocks. As for the devs being involved with that miner.. they're not. I've spoken privately with them about it and they don't know who it is. There's no way to tell who it is, but it's clearly someone who saw a huge opportunity with karmacoin. That 700MH has been there for a LONG time now, and it has STAYED on almost the whole time. They could be mining a lot of other coins with that hash rate, but they're mining karma.

I certainly hope they don't dump all those coin at once, because it would decimate the market... but I think they're smarter than that. If they have 70BTC+ worth at 3 satoshi, they have to be thinking about what is going to happen if it hits some real exchanges.

It is not the definitely not the dev (my team)! The person (group, multiminer, etc) who has been mining it has a farm with between 700MH to 1GH, and they have been mining it consistently. That is upwards of $1M USD in equipment with an enormous electric bill (probably 40-50K USD). I am basing those estimates on what I pay for 2MH but it should be close. They definitely see a big upside to the coin and the community, as we do as well. Given their scale I don't see why this person would sell now or sell in a hurry (i.e. there is no way they are hurting for cash if they had enough to buy 1M of equipment).

As far as the code and the algorithm, there isn't a way to game it to get more lucky. The source code is here at https://github.com/karmacoin-team/karmacoin, the file that has the algorithm is src/main.cpp. Also the algorithm is pretty much the same as used by DOGE for the randomness so it's been beat up and proven over the past several months of their existence.

http://explorer.karmacoin.info/address/KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5 shows over 7 billion coins recieved and over 4 billion coins sent. i would believe this coin is an exchange. possibly coinmarket wallet address where all of us sent out coins to them.

What is strange about this is that K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z this address keeps sending out the coins to KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5

we need to figure out what the hell is going on.

It's obvious it's an exchange wallet.

We don't really need to figure out much. There is a big miner making money. Same as the little miners. He just has a lot. Too bad for you

Too bad for us all as they are tanking the price. They don't care about the coin just about making money to pay for their massive equipment and power bills. Not sure whether we should be flattered they chose Karmacoin or afraid of what's to come. There seems to be buyers at a price that makes it profitable to mine so that is a big plus...even at the rate we are creating new coins (which is very high right now).

If they are sending most of the coins to an exchange to sell then that may help to explain the massive sell positions at the 3,4,and 5 sat levels on all the exchanges. I am more concerned about what seems to be unfair average block rewards for them. Why are the seeing over 800,000 coins per block when all the pools are only seeing less than 500,000 coins per block over the last 24 hours. This to me is hard to explain with just luck and randomness. Dev's please explain how this can be? Almost double the payout per block is way out of the range of pure luck. Especially spread out over 24 hours. This is very disconcerting. It is bad enough they are getting all the blocks but getting all the good blocks as well is too much.

There is nothing wrong with mining the most profitable coin. It means equilibrium isn't reached. It's all a natural process at this point.

And I don't know where the hell your claim about the block rewards inequity comes from. Looking at the top 3 pools blocks found, only a very few are under 500k.

CryptoMF

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Quote from: matauc12 on February 17, 2014, 03:37:27 PM

Quote from: bitwho on February 17, 2014, 03:18:13 PM

Quote from: Karmagood on February 17, 2014, 02:08:11 PM

Quote from: trigeek on February 17, 2014, 12:55:06 PM

Quote from: trcwhale on February 17, 2014, 12:29:22 PM

Quote from: roede94105 on February 17, 2014, 11:08:56 AM

Quote from: btcforthefuture on February 17, 2014, 11:05:51 AM

Quote from: roede94105 on February 17, 2014, 10:12:33 AM

Quote from: lasybear on February 17, 2014, 07:41:05 AM

I've a question.

Look's like a large private pool is connected to network...
At this time is 1400Mhs network hashrate.
pool.karmacoin.info - 387Mhs
karma.hashstrike.com - 296Mhs
other officially announced at start page ~ 10-20Mhs
Black hole: ~700Mhs
Next.
Block 17840-17845 generated by K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z with total amount of 4869397,001 KARMAs. 811566,1668 average per block. Higher than other pools... Ok...

Some investigations in block explorer...
http://explorer.karmacoin.info/tx/d02563e283e1b438b9d02c19bddcad584fd661384b8346bea625f41df3f936fe
K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z sent appx 27517929.016 to KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5
Ok...

Sent, sent and sent...
And voila:

Code:

Address KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5
Details
Balance	2589363996.56565243 KAR
Transactions in	742
Received	6955117377.22357766 KAR
Transactions out	336
Sent	4365753380.65792523 KAR

omg... 2.6 billion... 77btc at 3e-8...

And yes, only K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z sent to KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5.

May be I'm wrong, but...

And now my question: is it possible 51% attack at KARMA network?

add/
From block 18100 to 18143 all blocks with reward > 1mio except one was generated by K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z, and smallest reward was appx 0.65mio.
So lucky )))

That worries me a lot. Someone could enlighten us?

lol that address almost has 16% of all KARM in existence on it lol

Feels like the devs knew the algo and how to highly increase the chances of getting the bonus rewards, or that someone found a way to do so. If it's the devs, it starts to make sense as to why the bonus rewards are so high..

I think dev needs some explaining to do here.

This wouldn't surprise me if it was true.

The algorithm is right there in the source code:

Code:

int static generateMTRandom(unsigned int s, int range)
{
        random::mt19937 gen(s);
    random::uniform_int_distribution<> dist(1, range);
    return dist(gen);
}

...

        if (maxRand != 0) {
                double rand = generateMTRandom(seed, maxRand);
                bonus = rand * COIN;
        }

        return nSubsidy + bonus + nFees;

It's a standard random number generator. They just got lucky with those blocks. As for the devs being involved with that miner.. they're not. I've spoken privately with them about it and they don't know who it is. There's no way to tell who it is, but it's clearly someone who saw a huge opportunity with karmacoin. That 700MH has been there for a LONG time now, and it has STAYED on almost the whole time. They could be mining a lot of other coins with that hash rate, but they're mining karma.

I certainly hope they don't dump all those coin at once, because it would decimate the market... but I think they're smarter than that. If they have 70BTC+ worth at 3 satoshi, they have to be thinking about what is going to happen if it hits some real exchanges.

It is not the definitely not the dev (my team)! The person (group, multiminer, etc) who has been mining it has a farm with between 700MH to 1GH, and they have been mining it consistently. That is upwards of $1M USD in equipment with an enormous electric bill (probably 40-50K USD). I am basing those estimates on what I pay for 2MH but it should be close. They definitely see a big upside to the coin and the community, as we do as well. Given their scale I don't see why this person would sell now or sell in a hurry (i.e. there is no way they are hurting for cash if they had enough to buy 1M of equipment).

As far as the code and the algorithm, there isn't a way to game it to get more lucky. The source code is here at https://github.com/karmacoin-team/karmacoin, the file that has the algorithm is src/main.cpp. Also the algorithm is pretty much the same as used by DOGE for the randomness so it's been beat up and proven over the past several months of their existence.

http://explorer.karmacoin.info/address/KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5 shows over 7 billion coins recieved and over 4 billion coins sent. i would believe this coin is an exchange. possibly coinmarket wallet address where all of us sent out coins to them.

What is strange about this is that K7SBPBYDkEPpDqpARgE9xBes7f1FZ6w68Z this address keeps sending out the coins to KUMpz7KSH2ym3XVDFws3YhqapcA26JdQW5

we need to figure out what the hell is going on.

It's obvious it's an exchange wallet.

We don't really need to figure out much. There is a big miner making money. Same as the little miners. He just has a lot. Too bad for you

Too bad for us all as they are tanking the price. They don't care about the coin just about making money to pay for their massive equipment and power bills. Not sure whether we should be flattered they chose Karmacoin or afraid of what's to come. There seems to be buyers at a price that makes it profitable to mine so that is a big plus...even at the rate we are creating new coins (which is very high right now).

If they are sending most of the coins to an exchange to sell then that may help to explain the massive sell positions at the 3,4,and 5 sat levels on all the exchanges. I am more concerned about what seems to be unfair average block rewards for them. Why are the seeing over 800,000 coins per block when all the pools are only seeing less than 500,000 coins per block over the last 24 hours. This to me is hard to explain with just luck and randomness. Dev's please explain how this can be? Almost double the payout per block is way out of the range of pure luck. Especially spread out over 24 hours. This is very disconcerting. It is bad enough they are getting all the blocks but getting all the good blocks as well is too much.

matauc12

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 500

Pretty much every new coin is subject to being 51%'d. The fact we have someone with 700Mhs that could have 51% but didn't/doesnt just makes it that much safer. And now it's out of 51% reach.

I don't see any real threat here. The network is growing and that's just good.

JohnCar

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Quote from: MintPal-Jay on February 17, 2014, 05:23:24 PM

Guys, more of you need to give MintPal a try

. We're quickly improving our site and increasing our overall volume. We have one of the best UIs around, a very responsive site and highly professional support. Many have commented that we have been their best trading experience to date.

We were also first to list Karmacoin! There are plenty of KARM orders there waiting to be matched.

https://www.mintpal.com/market/KARM/BTC

Just tried you exchange for the first time everything everything worked perfectly Grin

Topic: [ANN][KARM] Karmacoin - New Initiatives - Helping People Do Good - page 160. (Read 352488 times)